Eurostar - guaranteeing an old Eurostar

[Viperzs]

Hi all,

I'm looking to have a long weekend in somewhere European (most likely Brussels) so I can go on the Eurostar. The difficulty is that I LOVE the classic Eurostar and think the new one looks crap and I have no desire to go on it.

Is there a way to find out which train will be operating which route so I can be sure (except for engineering issues) to get a classic one?

Thanks!

[Pickled]

Here you go

Just go to www.trainline.eu and run an enquiry for your journey and date. In the search results, look at the train number on the right. It will begin e320 if it's a new e320, or e300 if it is either a refurbished e300 or classic Eurostar.

[Viperzs]

That was easy, thank you!!

[Gareth1974]

If you fancy going a little further afield, the DB "London Special" fares can be very good - they include Eurostar to Brussels, then onward travel to major German cities. It says fares start from 59 euros, but if you search, they often come up at 49 euros. Can be a cheap way to get a lot of train travel.

https://www.bahn.com/en/view/offers/europe/saver-f...

[Atmospheric]

The Siemens Velaro is a serious piece of kit.

I haven't even been on the classic TGV Eurostar so I see what you mean. To think the 373s will be scrapped soon!

[Bert Cheese]

Atmospheric said:

To think the 373s will be scrapped soon!

They've already chopped a few apparently, done behind a wall of containers to deter photographers as Eurostar don't want to be in the headlines about scrapping "new" trains even though they are actually quite old, suffering from corrosion of the underframes and not really practical for use elsewhere being very juice hungry and having relatively few doors meaning excessive station dwell times.

Edited by Bert Cheese on Sunday 28th May 00:33

[Atmospheric]

Rust and corrosion is unacceptable on a train if that type and age.

French build quality, then.

I had no Idea they were actually becoming uneconomical to actually run due to quality.

[W124Bob]

I remember seeing these at Leeds when GNER leased a couple of sets back in the mid 90's so it's fair to say Eurostar have had their monies worth. They relieved a bit of pressure for GNER but were very restricted in when they could be used. Off peak and only as far as Leeds and they had suppression issues with signal interference I believe, which prevented the units use on long distance International services. A 2 track depot was built at Longsight on the approach to Manchester Piccadilly for the units aand never used , it's still empty now.

[Equilibrium25]

W124Bob said:

I remember seeing these at Leeds when GNER leased a couple of sets back in the mid 90's so it's fair to say Eurostar have had their monies worth. They relieved a bit of pressure for GNER but were very restricted in when they could be used. Off peak and only as far as Leeds and they had suppression issues with signal interference I believe, which prevented the units use on long distance International services. A 2 track depot was built at Longsight on the approach to Manchester Piccadilly for the units aand never used , it's still empty now.

They probably did do ok, but 20ish years is a very short life-span for 'modern' trains. The many-times refurbished HSTs are still giving sterling service with many sets over 40 years old, and plenty of suburban/regional stock is 30+ years old. I believe, though, that the extreme humidity in the tunnel is cited as one of the reasons for the high corrosion levels in the 373s.

The other piece you refer to is Regional Eurostar. Several 373s were ordered specifically for this - known as the North of London (NoL) or domestic sets; they were shorter than standard 373s if I recall correctly. Several sets of brand new sleeper and overnight seated coaches were also built (branded Nightstar). This was all a hugely expensive commitment.

Services were to run from Manchester, Glasgow/Edinburgh(??) and Plymouth/Penzance. From Manchester at least, and perhaps from other destinations, trial feeder services commenced with HSTs linking up with the initial Eurostar services from Waterloo (again, this is if memory serves correctly!). Patronage on these services was appalling and reality dawned - there was no business case for the Regional Eurostar/Nightstar services; they would incur huge losses.

Despite the massive up-front investment, the services were axed before beginning. The NoL Eurostars went into store, some eventually being leased to GNER as you mention and others being used domestically in France. The Nightstar coaches were sold to ViaRail in Canada - I saw these in use in Toronto a few years back, I guess they will still be going. Brand new multi-million pound locomotives ordered for the service (a subset of Class 92) were little used before being stored in the mid-90s; most have not turned a wheel since. Lastly, a dozen specially refurbished diesel class 37s were disposed of to private/semi-state subsidised DRS.

Together with the infrastructure spend (depots that you have mentioned etc.), this was a colossal folly when the money could have been used so much more wisely.

TL;DR - it was the business case rather than technical issues with signalling that killed Regional Eurostar et al.

[alangla]

I had a trip from Quebec City to Montreal on a Nightstar set a few years ago. They're a really pleasant way to travel, but the seating is probably too low density for use here (from memory, it's basically all first class 2+1 recliners with huge legroom). The Nightstar class 92s are finally running passenger services BTW - they're on the Caledonian Sleeper from Euston to Glasgow/Edinburgh (kind of, after a few false starts)

[MitchT]

W124Bob said:

I remember seeing these at Leeds when GNER leased a couple of sets back in the mid 90's...

I was to and fro between Leeds and London a lot between 2000 and 2009 and I traveled on GNER branded Eurostars, and de-stickered Eurostar liveried sets quite a few times. I seem to recall they were restricted to 110mph, ironically.

From Wikipedia ...

Five of the North of London sets were leased to GNER in 2000 to operate services from London King's Cross to York and later Leeds under the White Rose brand.[29] Two operated in debranded Eurostar livery, while three sets were covered in GNER deep-navy vinyl wraps. On rare occasions, sets were formed of a GNER and an unbranded Eurostar halfset. The lease concluded in December 2005 and they were returned to Eurostar. The doors of the first and last coach were locked out of use, as the units were too long for intermediate station platforms; use of the coaches was permitted.[30]

Due to limitations in the power supply on the Hertford Loop Line, only one set was permitted to operate there at a time.[31] They were restricted to run between King's Cross, York and Leeds because of gauging on the bridges approaching Newcastle. They were not permitted to operate to Bradford Forster Square because the electrical infrastructure past Leeds was insufficient. Manually locked selective door opening was used at shorter platforms. At the following locations on the East Coast Main Line they are restricted to 110 mph (177 km/h), shown by blue "TGV" signs next to the tracks, or required to only use a single pantograph: (i) The Down Fast line between 59m 10ch and 59m 30ch (Huntingdon North Jn), (ii) between Grantham (105m 77ch) and Shaftholme Jn (160m 00ch Down/160m 20ch Up) and (iii) between Colton Jn (182m 75ch) and York.

[Rick101]

Viperzs said:

Hi all,

I'm looking to have a long weekend in somewhere European (most likely Brussels) so I can go on the Eurostar. The difficulty is that I LOVE the classic Eurostar and think the new one looks crap and I have no desire to go on it.

Is there a way to find out which train will be operating which route so I can be sure (except for engineering issues) to get a classic one?

Thanks!

Train geek