Discussion
Guy,
Could do with a bit of help if poss.
As you maybe aware I have 'nearly' purchased a GT2 but have a few question/queries.
Firstly, regarding the warranty. I would obviously be getting 12 months from the dealer, but what after that. Can you get extended warranties direct from porsche, or is it like on the TVR, i.e, a seperate warranty company such as 'Carplan'. Whats the best & how much per annum is it likely to be.
Secondly, the ceramic brakes. I have read about both you & henry changing to steels, and wondered whether this is something that should be done immediately, or is this only an issue if you track the car.
If there are any other issues that I should be aware of, or be looking for on the car, I would appreciate any advice.
Could do with a bit of help if poss.
As you maybe aware I have 'nearly' purchased a GT2 but have a few question/queries.
Firstly, regarding the warranty. I would obviously be getting 12 months from the dealer, but what after that. Can you get extended warranties direct from porsche, or is it like on the TVR, i.e, a seperate warranty company such as 'Carplan'. Whats the best & how much per annum is it likely to be.
Secondly, the ceramic brakes. I have read about both you & henry changing to steels, and wondered whether this is something that should be done immediately, or is this only an issue if you track the car.
If there are any other issues that I should be aware of, or be looking for on the car, I would appreciate any advice.
Just to add some info re warranty. If the car is under 10years old it can have the porsche extended warranty applied. This costs £725 per annum. This is what you will be getting with the car, and you can simply extend it each year for £725.
However if you let the car slip out of warranty you would need to get it inspected by an OPC at a cost of £200 + any rectifications they require.
However if you let the car slip out of warranty you would need to get it inspected by an OPC at a cost of £200 + any rectifications they require.
Warranty. It's as GreigM said, book a service or check-up a month before the warranty expires, get them to do any work required and pay the extra £725-odd to extend for another year.
Anyone who does not extend warranty on a GT2/GT3/Turbo is mad, the engine is like £35k and the gearbox is about £10k.
As for the brakes, the PCCBs will be fine if used for normal fast road driving, however if they are used on trackdays or high speed events like VMax, then they will quickly start to degrade. It's easy to see this happening on the discs and you can replace the discs then if you want (or do so earlier as a precaution if you think you will be hard on the brakes).
Guy - as an aside, I see from your profile that you've 'carbonized' a few body parts - do you still have the originals tucked away neatly for any future resale or do you feel the car would be just as or more resellable at some future juncture?
Also, do you really think these changes have made any discernable difference to the car's overall capability? (Yes, I'm checking out the benefits myself at the moment.)
Is it not the case that the sheer potency of the 'Nardo' engine is the real hero in the equation?
DeR.
Also, do you really think these changes have made any discernable difference to the car's overall capability? (Yes, I'm checking out the benefits myself at the moment.)
Is it not the case that the sheer potency of the 'Nardo' engine is the real hero in the equation?
DeR.
derestrictor said:If I may hijack your question DeR while GuyR is temporarily absent, you're right to toy with the old racing adage 'for speed add lightness'. I too had some body parts carbonised a while back and boy it feels good. With an organic ex-racing bonnet and rear wing / engine cover, the result was instantly felt in superior acceleration. Top speed shouldn't be affected much in theory but on confined runs it will make a difference of course.
as an aside, I see from your profile that you've 'carbonized' a few body parts (Yes, I'm checking out the benefits myself at the moment.)
I'm very glad you did interject there, Bernard: you've confirmed what seems to be the prevailing wisdom.
Namely that uber velocities are to a goodly degree the product of power and aerodynamics whereas low down lithliness arises from the least lardy of girth.
The beetle is currently around the 1420 kilo mark (down from an original 1508 [I think]). Sacrificing the lovely cluck of the 993 doors could reduce that to 1400 but I'm not sure how much the boot, bonnet and glass weigh on top of that?
This is another of those slippery slopes where to some extent you have to balance the realities of your basic car's premise: we Turbo owners who get a little too carried away and could be accused of missing a trick by not getting an RS or GT3 inityially but I do think you can achieve a better overall compromise if you know when and where to stop (I'm not sure I do!
)
For example, since removing most of the unnecessary parts of the interior I've unleashed a rawess which makes it all that much more intense and when I think back about the basic car, it was far too civilised compared to the gutteral utterings of the Cerbera.
Bloody hell...
Namely that uber velocities are to a goodly degree the product of power and aerodynamics whereas low down lithliness arises from the least lardy of girth.
The beetle is currently around the 1420 kilo mark (down from an original 1508 [I think]). Sacrificing the lovely cluck of the 993 doors could reduce that to 1400 but I'm not sure how much the boot, bonnet and glass weigh on top of that?
This is another of those slippery slopes where to some extent you have to balance the realities of your basic car's premise: we Turbo owners who get a little too carried away and could be accused of missing a trick by not getting an RS or GT3 inityially but I do think you can achieve a better overall compromise if you know when and where to stop (I'm not sure I do!
) For example, since removing most of the unnecessary parts of the interior I've unleashed a rawess which makes it all that much more intense and when I think back about the basic car, it was far too civilised compared to the gutteral utterings of the Cerbera.
Bloody hell...
I've got carbon bonnet and rear spoiler. To be honest both were purchased as much for the looks as the weight effect. The rear spoiler is a GT2 Mk2 Porsche item, so it could be considered Porsche factory in a way and was fitted at Ruf, so they kept the stock rear spoiler (plus I didn't really fancy bringing it back with me). The carbon/kevlar bonnet was also supplied by Ruf, but air-frieghted to me, so yes I have the orginal bonnet. I'm not sure why I keep it, I might hang it on the wall in my garage as 'art'. If I ever do sell the car, I would do so with the carbon bits on, they can easily be sprayed if desired and it's not like the rest of the car is 'standard'.......
As for weight, yes reducing weight is important, more so for handling than acceleration. The bonnet saves about 10kg I guess and the rear spoiler 6kg I believe, so it's fairly small, though nice.
I have been down the route of what to do if I lightened my car and the conclusions are lengthy, but also costly. To do it properly you end up gutting the car and removing all the nice features (like a/c, electric windows, glass, insulation etc) and end up with a race car. It's better and cheaper to buy a race-car in the first-place.
The problem with carbon doors is that unless you have a full roll-cage with doorbars, you better hope you don't ever have a side-impact.
The other thing with a 911 is that weight is best removed from the rear, which is also where it's hardest to remove weight.
If I were to do any lightening in the immediate future it would be lightweight battery and magnesium wheels. The problem is some kilos are very expensive to remove and this includes magnesium.
As you said the real driver of the cars speed is the engine power. It's a lot easier sometimes to gain 5% more power (20-30bhp) than to lose 5% weight (65-75kg). If I wanted my car to go faster round tracks the money would be best spent on improving my driver skills.
derestrictor said:
The beetle is currently around the 1420 kilo mark (down from an original 1508 [I think]). Sacrificing the lovely cluck of the 993 doors could reduce that to 1400 but I'm not sure how much the boot, bonnet and glass weigh on top of that?...I do think you can achieve a better overall compromise if you know when and where to stop (I'm not sure I do!
Having got the T2 down to around the 1300 kg mark using the usual suspects - carbon-kevlar wing and bonnet, racing seats, lighter alloys, lightweight sports exhaust, aviation plastic airbox - I decided against replacing the doors because of their German steel T-bone defeater as Guy says, but that would certainly be a good way to add more lightness.
Glass, bumper mounts and other peripheral considerations didn't seem worth the hassle - would you disagree gentlemen? On that note I must offer a contrary opinion Guy, having taken 150kg off the T2 that was the factor that got really sharp acceleration, which is directly dependent on mass, well inversely proportional, according to Sir Isaac.
I don't want to remove the aircon or carpets, yes I'd have done better getting a race car rather than gut a turbo. My next target in the weight loss department is the nut that holds the steering wheel...
a=f/m ie accel=force/mass
ergo to increase a, either increase f or decrease mass.........
Thats for pure acceleration, the effect on cornering and overall handling are different. Reducing mass makes a car feel lighter in many way and improves many aspects of the cars behaviour. Increasing power only increases acceleration.
Depends on what you are after as to whether f or m give you the answer you desire. However its easier to double force than to halve mass.
GuyR said:
The problem with carbon doors is that unless you have a full roll-cage with doorbars, you better hope you don't ever have a side-impact.
Guy,
I didn't realise carbon doors were so fragile. I seem to remember from an E30 M3 forum someone saying that in the event of a side impact, carbon doors actually splinter horribly and it is these splinters that present the real danger to the driver, not the car that just hit your door?
The reason I ask is that I have a full roll cage with door bars in my car. Maybe one day I'd be tempted by carbon doors. The rear wing is already carbon.
DeR,
I remember you saying on this forum once that the carbon doors cost about a grand each, but they need painting. Is that right? Have you any idea what the weight saving would be?
I think a more sensible weight-loss scheme for my car would involve ditching the heavy speedlines and getting some magnesium BBS wheels. Then there's the air-con, elec windows, the stereo.......on second thoughts, no.
>> Edited by johnny senna on Sunday 3rd April 00:27
johnny senna said:Maybe I can help with that. There was a 911 3.0 RS with carbon doors weighing only 3kg each. Steel doors weigh in at about 18kg iirc. Painting is usual unless you want to leave the carbon effect on a dark grey or black car. The weave normally shows but there are techniques to hide it. My carbon is painted (midnight) with no attempt to hide the weave.
carbon doors cost about a grand each, but they need painting. Is that right? Have you any idea what the weight saving would be?
turbobloke said:
johnny senna said:
carbon doors cost about a grand each, but they need painting. Is that right? Have you any idea what the weight saving would be?
Maybe I can help with that. There was a 911 3.0 RS with carbon doors weighing only 3kg each. Steel doors weigh in at about 18kg iirc. Painting is usual unless you want to leave the carbon effect on a dark grey or black car. The weave normally shows but there are techniques to hide it. My carbon is painted (midnight) with no attempt to hide the weave.
Hmmmm.....that's quite a weight saving!! I would want them painting though.
My car actually isn't that light I wouldn't think. The air jacks will weigh a bit. Then there's the air con, elec. windows and stereo that the first owner deliberately specced to a car that is otherwise a Club Sport. I'm sure the best way forward would be to replace the wheels and then train the driver. Actually, better to do it the other way 'round.
Edited to say......sorry for hijacking the thread!!
>> Edited by johnny senna on Sunday 3rd April 09:54
johnny senna said:Apologies from me too. Having grovelled, I'll use the excuse to mention another marque and point out that there were credible reports a while back of a (stateside?) machine that gave another meaning to Crazy Golf, over 900 bhp with torque to match, and carbon everything. The doors were a claimed 2.5 kg apiece, but as strength / lightness increase together, price goes with them. Oooer.
Edited to say......sorry for hijacking the thread!!
Think I have seen an advert in P 911 world or GT PP for carbon bits and bobs from Suttgart Connection, they have just started doing them believe.
www.stuttgartconnection.co.uk
www.stuttgartconnection.co.uk
It is also worth remembering that weight saved from rotating parts (wheels, disks, tyres etc) have a much bigger effect that weight lost from sprung static mass (roof, doors etc). If you saved 15kg's accross all wheels it'd be the same as loosing approx 45-50kg from the sprung mass. You'd also see a benifit in acceleration and braking due to a smaller flywheel effect.
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