That Cecil Rhodes quote...
Discussion
Apparently, he once said:
"you are an Englishman, and have subsequently drawn the greatest prize in the lottery of life"
among all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about impending doom/the election and what the outcome will be, I think it would probably do a great many people to take that quote on board regardless of the outcome. As a statement I think its pretty on the money.... what does PH think?
"you are an Englishman, and have subsequently drawn the greatest prize in the lottery of life"
among all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about impending doom/the election and what the outcome will be, I think it would probably do a great many people to take that quote on board regardless of the outcome. As a statement I think its pretty on the money.... what does PH think?
Otispunkmeyer said:
As a statement I think its pretty on the money.... what does PH think?
It's complete, stark, staring, jingoistic b
ks.There are plenty of other first-world developed countries whose citizens are similarly fortunate - in many ways, more so. Socioeconomic divisions within those first-world countries are much more important than which country. Would you really rather be born to a teenage hooker on a British sinkhole estate than to a wealthy German or American or Japanese family?
However, given that it was allegedly spoken to Lord Grey, and would have been in Victorian times, there might a mild argument that it could have applied to a member of the nobility at that time.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
When they do these tests to measure people's overall happiness, I thought Britain faired pretty poorly compared to other 1st world countries.
Having just been to the Body Works place in Amsterdam, they had a list; we are 19th. I put that down to the British need to have a good moan about stuff. I think its in our genetics. I think the Danes where in the top spot. The question I have is how they measure happiness objectively, its not like you can measure it with an absolute tool.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 2nd June 10:13
TooMany2cvs said:
It's complete, stark, staring, jingoistic bks.
There are plenty of other first-world developed countries whose citizens are similarly fortunate - in many ways, more so. Socioeconomic divisions within those first-world countries are much more important than which country. Would you really rather be born to a teenage hooker on a British sinkhole estate than to a wealthy German or American or Japanese family?
However, given that it was allegedly spoken to Lord Grey, and would have been in Victorian times, there might a mild argument that it could have applied to a member of the nobility at that time.
ks.There are plenty of other first-world developed countries whose citizens are similarly fortunate - in many ways, more so. Socioeconomic divisions within those first-world countries are much more important than which country. Would you really rather be born to a teenage hooker on a British sinkhole estate than to a wealthy German or American or Japanese family?
However, given that it was allegedly spoken to Lord Grey, and would have been in Victorian times, there might a mild argument that it could have applied to a member of the nobility at that time.
These though days it's true of pretty much anyone born in a first world country.TooMany2cvs said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
As a statement I think its pretty on the money.... what does PH think?
It's complete, stark, staring, jingoistic bks.There are plenty of other first-world developed countries whose citizens are similarly fortunate - in many ways, more so. Socioeconomic divisions within those first-world countries are much more important than which country. Would you really rather be born to a teenage hooker on a British sinkhole estate than to a wealthy German or American or Japanese family?
However, given that it was allegedly spoken to Lord Grey, and would have been in Victorian times, there might a mild argument that it could have applied to a member of the nobility at that time.
I am not sure I'd want to be born an average Joe in the USA. But Germany? sure, Japan? I've not been so I can't say.
brrapp said:
I once read that the average person living on benefits in the UK was still in the wealthiest 3% in the world. Don't know if it's still the case (or if it ever was) but old Cecil had a point.
A person on benefits is very likely to have a [reasonably] permanent place of residence, heating, lighting, sanitary facilities, a very low chance of suffering real hunger, and virtually nil chance of actually starving.Compare that to a Yorkshire miner's life of Orwell's time, and things are definitely looking up.
Compare that to countries that are suffering from over population vs available food for distribution, and while being an 'Englishman' may no longer be first prize in the lottery, according to some at least, it is by no means a losing ticket.
When Rhodes lived, in the 19th century, he was right. Britain ruled the world and had the biggest Empire mankind had (and has) ever seen. It was a lottery win. Way ahead of the entire planet.
Today, in the 21st century, Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world and way behind rich countries like America and has a miserable culture of moaning and arguing and it is cloudy or rainy almost every day. It is still a good place to live, but no longer a great one. The only place left in the entire country where you can still win the lottery of life is central and west London. The other 98% is a bit cr* p.
Today, in the 21st century, Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world and way behind rich countries like America and has a miserable culture of moaning and arguing and it is cloudy or rainy almost every day. It is still a good place to live, but no longer a great one. The only place left in the entire country where you can still win the lottery of life is central and west London. The other 98% is a bit cr* p.
Yipper said:
When Rhodes lived, in the 19th century, he was right. Britain ruled the world and had the biggest Empire mankind had (and has) ever seen. It was a lottery win. Way ahead of the entire planet.
Today, in the 21st century, Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world and way behind rich countries like America and has a miserable culture of moaning and arguing and it is cloudy or rainy almost every day. It is still a good place to live, but no longer a great one. The only place left in the entire country where you can still win the lottery of life is central and west London. The other 98% is a bit cr* p.
Hmmm. I think thats the attitude that puts us 19th on the happiness scale. This place is not that bad. I've traveled a lot and there are many great things to like about other places in the world. But its easy to get carried away with thinking the grass is resplendently green on the other side, but many forget that it still needs mowing. Today, in the 21st century, Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world and way behind rich countries like America and has a miserable culture of moaning and arguing and it is cloudy or rainy almost every day. It is still a good place to live, but no longer a great one. The only place left in the entire country where you can still win the lottery of life is central and west London. The other 98% is a bit cr* p.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 2nd June 10:53
Yipper said:
When Rhodes lived, in the 19th century, he was right. Britain ruled the world and had the biggest Empire mankind had (and has) ever seen. It was a lottery win. Way ahead of the entire planet.
Today, in the 21st century, Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world and way behind rich countries like America and has a miserable culture of moaning and arguing and it is cloudy or rainy almost every day. It is still a good place to live, but no longer a great one. The only place left in the entire country where you can still win the lottery of life is central and west London. The other 98% is a bit cr* p.
A fan of sweeping generalisations, I see.Today, in the 21st century, Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world and way behind rich countries like America and has a miserable culture of moaning and arguing and it is cloudy or rainy almost every day. It is still a good place to live, but no longer a great one. The only place left in the entire country where you can still win the lottery of life is central and west London. The other 98% is a bit cr* p.
Let's not forget that it was only during Rhodes lifetime that the minimum age for employing children in factories was raised to 11, for example.
How are you assessing "poorest" and "rich" in the 21st centuries? How much of the "other 98%" of the country have you been to?
brrapp said:
I once read that the average person living on benefits in the UK was still in the wealthiest 3% in the world. Don't know if it's still the case (or if it ever was) but old Cecil had a point.
Very likely, given that nearly half the world's population still live on less than $2.50/day, and nearly half of those on half that amount.Otispunkmeyer said:
Ok you have a point re other western societies. You've picked extremes though, I was thinking more a long the lines of being born an average Joe.
...and now we start fiddling with the quote to suit the conclusions...Yipper said:
When Rhodes lived, in the 19th century, he was right. Britain ruled the world and had the biggest Empire mankind had (and has) ever seen. It was a lottery win. Way ahead of the entire planet.
You've not read much Dickens, have you...?Poorest in 21st century Britain = social housing, state benefits. About 1% illiteracy. 1 in 250 children dead before five.
Poorest in 19th century Britain = the workhouse, debtor's prison. About 25% illiteracy. 1 in 8 children dead before five, as late as the 1920s.
Yipper said:
Today, in the 21st century, Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world
Complete and utter bks.Britain is one of the very wealthiest countries in the world, with much smaller income disparity than some of the other richest.
Yipper said:
When Rhodes lived, in the 19th century, he was right. Britain ruled the world and had the biggest Empire mankind had (and has) ever seen. It was a lottery win. Way ahead of the entire planet.
Today, in the 21st century, Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world and way behind rich countries like America and has a miserable culture of moaning and arguing and it is cloudy or rainy almost every day. It is still a good place to live, but no longer a great one. The only place left in the entire country where you can still win the lottery of life is central and west London. The other 98% is a bit cr* p.
How do you come to the conclusion Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world? GDP? We could pick that apart all day.Today, in the 21st century, Britain is one of the poorest countries in the developed world and way behind rich countries like America and has a miserable culture of moaning and arguing and it is cloudy or rainy almost every day. It is still a good place to live, but no longer a great one. The only place left in the entire country where you can still win the lottery of life is central and west London. The other 98% is a bit cr* p.
We are in the top five for wealth per individual.
I also suggest you get out a bit more if anywhere outside of Central and West London is a bit crap.
You are indeed exceptionally lucky to be born in the U.K. ( or the west in general)
You will have a roof over your head.
You will not starve.
You will be educated.
You will be treated when you are ill.
You will have opportunities to improve yourself.
st, we even have a temperate climate.
Now go to the majority of Africa, Asia, parts of Central/South America and bits of the middle and Far East and see if you can say the same thing.
The problem is we have become accustomed to having access to everything that we moan about insignificant things too much
You will have a roof over your head.
You will not starve.
You will be educated.
You will be treated when you are ill.
You will have opportunities to improve yourself.
s
t, we even have a temperate climate.Now go to the majority of Africa, Asia, parts of Central/South America and bits of the middle and Far East and see if you can say the same thing.
The problem is we have become accustomed to having access to everything that we moan about insignificant things too much
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