Closing house sale account from solicitor
Discussion
Back in January, OH and I completed on a property.
The solicitors were completely useless, and the sale would have fallen through because of them if we hadn't spent several afternoons on the phone progressing / fixing various issues they had either caused or ignored.
A month and a bit after the sale we received a small refund on the balance of the dispersement account, at no point did we receive any invoices or statements. We have only received electronic copies of indemnity insurance certificates too.
We had just (June) had an email saying we owed £135 for the land registry fee... (paid before the account balance was refunded) We asked for a statement of the account, we now apparently owe slightly more, though the land registry fee has been covered according to the statement. There are a number of invoice numbers, that we don't know what they relate to.
We have requested a copy of the invoices and the OH (an accountant) will reconcile the numbers with what we have paid.
Is this reasonable by the solicitor? We're both gently p'd off as there is a lump of work to reconcile, and is nearly six months later a reasonable time frame? If we do owe any money, would offering £10 a month to repay be reasonable?
The solicitors were completely useless, and the sale would have fallen through because of them if we hadn't spent several afternoons on the phone progressing / fixing various issues they had either caused or ignored.
A month and a bit after the sale we received a small refund on the balance of the dispersement account, at no point did we receive any invoices or statements. We have only received electronic copies of indemnity insurance certificates too.
We had just (June) had an email saying we owed £135 for the land registry fee... (paid before the account balance was refunded) We asked for a statement of the account, we now apparently owe slightly more, though the land registry fee has been covered according to the statement. There are a number of invoice numbers, that we don't know what they relate to.
We have requested a copy of the invoices and the OH (an accountant) will reconcile the numbers with what we have paid.
Is this reasonable by the solicitor? We're both gently p'd off as there is a lump of work to reconcile, and is nearly six months later a reasonable time frame? If we do owe any money, would offering £10 a month to repay be reasonable?
Raise a complaint to the senior partner with a threat to take it to their regulators (SRA is it?).
Include a bulket point list of where they've let you down, where you've had to chase them and do their work for them. Say they are tardy in the extreme and borderline incompetent to the extent you nearly lost your house. Finally suggest that in the circumstances they waive any further charges. If they insist on payment for second rate work then yes piss them about like they have you.
Include a bulket point list of where they've let you down, where you've had to chase them and do their work for them. Say they are tardy in the extreme and borderline incompetent to the extent you nearly lost your house. Finally suggest that in the circumstances they waive any further charges. If they insist on payment for second rate work then yes piss them about like they have you.
Give me 5 minutes, my OH is a Paralegal in conveyancing firm, I'll get her to read and then edit.
As its 6 months ago the property should be registered by now and she would want a copy of the updated title to prove this.
As chap said above, in the Client Care Letter there will be a complaints procedure laid out, make sure thats followed. All else fails, go to the SRA as that is a solicitors firms worst nightmare and will do anything to avoid.
She wouldn't pay any extra until they have provided a full completion statement.
You are completely within your rights to ask for a copy of entire file.
She says their behaviour is terrible, her firm would never do this.
- Edit*
As its 6 months ago the property should be registered by now and she would want a copy of the updated title to prove this.
As chap said above, in the Client Care Letter there will be a complaints procedure laid out, make sure thats followed. All else fails, go to the SRA as that is a solicitors firms worst nightmare and will do anything to avoid.
She wouldn't pay any extra until they have provided a full completion statement.
You are completely within your rights to ask for a copy of entire file.
She says their behaviour is terrible, her firm would never do this.
Edited by CoreyDog on Saturday 3rd June 13:07
Thanks for your replies chaps, we have been pretty disappointed with them on a several points.
We have just received the statement after requesting it. But a lot of it just references invoice numbers and isn't much value, so we will be requesting those too.
Interesting it include the closing refund as the final transaction, so make you wonder if they have any competences at all.
We have just received the statement after requesting it. But a lot of it just references invoice numbers and isn't much value, so we will be requesting those too.
Interesting it include the closing refund as the final transaction, so make you wonder if they have any competences at all.
CubanPete said:
Thanks for your replies chaps, we have been pretty disappointed with them on a several points.
We have just received the statement after requesting it. But a lot of it just references invoice numbers and isn't much value, so we will be requesting those too.
Interesting it include the closing refund as the final transaction, so make you wonder if they have any competences at all.
I feel like a messenger pigeon but have let me other half read your reply, her response is:We have just received the statement after requesting it. But a lot of it just references invoice numbers and isn't much value, so we will be requesting those too.
Interesting it include the closing refund as the final transaction, so make you wonder if they have any competences at all.
That firm clearly don't have a clue what they are doing. Statement should set out clearly each disbursement, not just an invoice number.
Should start with a purchase price then a breakdown listing things like Land Registry Fee, Stamp Duty etc.
She says demand something like that listing each incoming and outgoing, not just their invoice numbers.
If you don't mind saying, she asks which firm it is?
CubanPete said:
My OH responded 7 days ago now requesting a breakdown of account, and reminding them we also sent an initial payment which appears to be missing off the statement! Not heard anything back yet...
Moderator edit: no naming & shaming please.
Sounds like a case of "Hurry up & wait now".Moderator edit: no naming & shaming please.
Edited by jeremyc on Thursday 15th June 13:30
If they haven't kept a correct Completion Statement (Bad business practice) then it may take sometime for them to pull their finger out and figure it all out. May end up costing them more to do that than the amount they claim you owe!
Just wait and see what they come back with, OH reckons you may not hear a thing though as they have clearly messed up and need to weigh up the cost of putting it right against what they may potentially get.
Typical of many solicitors I'm afraid. They want everything done yesterday but when it's the other way round you just have to wait your turn.
Tell them you want a complete breakdown of the charges and refunds and if they aren't willing to provide that in full then go to their regulator.
Tell them you want a complete breakdown of the charges and refunds and if they aren't willing to provide that in full then go to their regulator.
Jim1556 said:
Sorry to sidetrack!
But why is PH so unable to allow naming and shaming of bad companies, when google review/facebook/checkatrade/tripadvisor etc, all allow bad feedback, and naming of said s
t company???
Hope you get it sorted OP!
I always thought because they just aren't willing to risk it given the legal minefield around shaming on forums.But why is PH so unable to allow naming and shaming of bad companies, when google review/facebook/checkatrade/tripadvisor etc, all allow bad feedback, and naming of said s
t company???Hope you get it sorted OP!
Google, Facebook and TripAdvisor have more lawyers than you can imagine.
PH on the other hand could be hit hard financially by one person taking them to court and winning.
BlueHave said:
Typical of many solicitors I'm afraid. They want everything done yesterday but when it's the other way round you just have to wait your turn.
Tell them you want a complete breakdown of the charges and refunds and if they aren't willing to provide that in full then go to their regulator.
No i isn't typical, although it might have been your experience. There are good and bad everywhere, and the OP's seems fairly special tbh, but sending out completion statements and receipted bills is something that should always be done. I can only think of 2 matters in 15+ years where i have not done a completion statement and both of those were £5k bits of land where the buyer was paying my fees and the Client was getting the £5k straight and didn't want one. Even that was a number of years ago and today i would just do one anyway...Tell them you want a complete breakdown of the charges and refunds and if they aren't willing to provide that in full then go to their regulator.
Re the length of time to register the Land Registry are taking about 4-6 months on first registrations atm. My money is that the solicitors charged you the fee for the transfer of a registered property (£135) and then realised that it was unregistered meaning the LR fee would be £270, not £135. This will have been picked up on closure of the file.
It is true that occasionally there will be errors on Completion Statements, the LR fee one has happened to me and I have just written off the extra as it was our error that we only charged the lower fee. As a rule though as soon as you know all the figures in play you should be letting your client have a draft for them to check at least a few days before completion, and then a final one, with the receipted bill(s), on the day of completion by e-mail or post.
Long story short, house sold, solicitor charged extra £240 + vat over and above original quoted price.
Solicitor took the extra amount from the sale proceeds.
I asked for this amount back as it had not been previously agreed, solicitor refused.
Went to Legal Ombudsman, who agreed i should be refunded the extra amount.
Solicitor took the extra amount from the sale proceeds.
I asked for this amount back as it had not been previously agreed, solicitor refused.
Went to Legal Ombudsman, who agreed i should be refunded the extra amount.
Rude-boy said:
No i isn't typical, although it might have been your experience. There are good and bad everywhere, and the OP's seems fairly special tbh, but sending out completion statements and receipted bills is something that should always be done. I can only think of 2 matters in 15+ years where i have not done a completion statement and both of those were £5k bits of land where the buyer was paying my fees and the Client was getting the £5k straight and didn't want one. Even that was a number of years ago and today i would just do one anyway...
Re the length of time to register the Land Registry are taking about 4-6 months on first registrations atm. My money is that the solicitors charged you the fee for the transfer of a registered property (£135) and then realised that it was unregistered meaning the LR fee would be £270, not £135. This will have been picked up on closure of the file.
It is true that occasionally there will be errors on Completion Statements, the LR fee one has happened to me and I have just written off the extra as it was our error that we only charged the lower fee. As a rule though as soon as you know all the figures in play you should be letting your client have a draft for them to check at least a few days before completion, and then a final one, with the receipted bill(s), on the day of completion by e-mail or post.
The land registry fee on their statement is £135, the statement is missing all the relevant information as to what the payments are for and our initial payment (which would be them owing us money...).Re the length of time to register the Land Registry are taking about 4-6 months on first registrations atm. My money is that the solicitors charged you the fee for the transfer of a registered property (£135) and then realised that it was unregistered meaning the LR fee would be £270, not £135. This will have been picked up on closure of the file.
It is true that occasionally there will be errors on Completion Statements, the LR fee one has happened to me and I have just written off the extra as it was our error that we only charged the lower fee. As a rule though as soon as you know all the figures in play you should be letting your client have a draft for them to check at least a few days before completion, and then a final one, with the receipted bill(s), on the day of completion by e-mail or post.
They are still somewhat silent... We will chase up again in the next day or too - OH is an accountant and very good at making detailed when she wants to!
CubanPete said:
Back in January, OH and I completed on a property.
The solicitors were completely useless, and the sale would have fallen through because of them if we hadn't spent several afternoons on the phone progressing / fixing various issues they had either caused or ignored.
A month and a bit after the sale we received a small refund on the balance of the dispersement account, at no point did we receive any invoices or statements. We have only received electronic copies of indemnity insurance certificates too.
We had just (June) had an email saying we owed £135 for the land registry fee... (paid before the account balance was refunded) We asked for a statement of the account, we now apparently owe slightly more, though the land registry fee has been covered according to the statement. There are a number of invoice numbers, that we don't know what they relate to.
We have requested a copy of the invoices and the OH (an accountant) will reconcile the numbers with what we have paid.
Is this reasonable by the solicitor? We're both gently p'd off as there is a lump of work to reconcile, and is nearly six months later a reasonable time frame? If we do owe any money, would offering £10 a month to repay be reasonable?
Report them to the Law Society The solicitors were completely useless, and the sale would have fallen through because of them if we hadn't spent several afternoons on the phone progressing / fixing various issues they had either caused or ignored.
A month and a bit after the sale we received a small refund on the balance of the dispersement account, at no point did we receive any invoices or statements. We have only received electronic copies of indemnity insurance certificates too.
We had just (June) had an email saying we owed £135 for the land registry fee... (paid before the account balance was refunded) We asked for a statement of the account, we now apparently owe slightly more, though the land registry fee has been covered according to the statement. There are a number of invoice numbers, that we don't know what they relate to.
We have requested a copy of the invoices and the OH (an accountant) will reconcile the numbers with what we have paid.
Is this reasonable by the solicitor? We're both gently p'd off as there is a lump of work to reconcile, and is nearly six months later a reasonable time frame? If we do owe any money, would offering £10 a month to repay be reasonable?
So, almost three weeks after requesting a copy of account, we have received another email.
No invoice copies or transaction details as requested.
It turns out they haven't taken out a policy we paid for
And please could we transfer the money with immediate urgency (despite it taking 3 weeks for them to respond!).
We have again requested a copy of the account, invoices referred to (none have been received to date) and a credit for the policy.
Can anyone offer any guidance on contacting the law society...?
No invoice copies or transaction details as requested.
It turns out they haven't taken out a policy we paid for
And please could we transfer the money with immediate urgency (despite it taking 3 weeks for them to respond!).
We have again requested a copy of the account, invoices referred to (none have been received to date) and a credit for the policy.
Can anyone offer any guidance on contacting the law society...?
CubanPete said:
Can anyone offer any guidance on contacting the law society...?
Yes: don't.The Law Society is the profession's trade union. It look after its members' interests, not yours.
Therefore contacting it will be pointless and a waste of your time.
This explains the correct process to follow - http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/report-so...
CubanPete said:
So, almost three weeks after requesting a copy of account, we have received another email.
No invoice copies or transaction details as requested.
It turns out they haven't taken out a policy we paid for
And please could we transfer the money with immediate urgency (despite it taking 3 weeks for them to respond!).
We have again requested a copy of the account, invoices referred to (none have been received to date) and a credit for the policy.
Can anyone offer any guidance on contacting the law society...?
Messenger pigeon has flown back. Sent a screenshot to my better half and she just replied. No invoice copies or transaction details as requested.
It turns out they haven't taken out a policy we paid for
And please could we transfer the money with immediate urgency (despite it taking 3 weeks for them to respond!).
We have again requested a copy of the account, invoices referred to (none have been received to date) and a credit for the policy.
Can anyone offer any guidance on contacting the law society...?
First you need to complain to who deals with complaints at the firm. It will tell you in the client care letter/terms of business which you would have received and signed for at the outset of the matter. You need to follow this procedure first before going to the SRA.
From my point of view (Coreydog), they haven't managed for the file correctly and instead of sending you what you require (Which they haven't done) they are now trying to cover their own backs and make it sound "urgent" in an attempt to get what they can and make this file go away. Stick at them until they provide what you need.
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