Subaru Legacy 2.0 GT twin scroll - a powerful daily?
Discussion
Can one have ones cake and eat it? This is an ongoing experiment.
Taking my career in a different direction, meant needing a car with a large boot - but I wasn't content to be sensible (and perhaps i should be!), so I started my search by working out my requirements - estate shape for boot size, ideally more than 200 ponies, discreet looking, manual, and fairly reliable. A lot of pokey estates do tend to be autos, but I'm an old fashioned guy, and i just prefer manual myself.
A good BMW e46 330 touring would have been lovely, but hard to find one that hasn't gone to the moon and back. I've always thought the 4th legacy's look good, and the spec B version has a silky smooth NA 3 litre engine - but finding one in budget was tricky. Then I stumbled upon this - a 2.0 GT twinscroll. Only sold in japan, it puts out a little more power than the spec B uk version, and has the 2.0 turbo engine from the impreza STI of that generation. - 280bhp versus the 3 litres 250. Bilstien shocks as standard, and spacious estate boot, and also not too heavy for the size - meant this was a great choice as an all rounder. To top it all, it was only a few miles away - so i went for a look.
(in it's natural habitat)
It turned out to be owned for the last 10 years, by the MD of Ecutek, a well regarded company that specialises in japanese car ECU programming and diagnostic software. He'd kept it standard, and been using it as an estate car, to ferry bits for the company around the country. Mechanically the car was in great condition - more miles on the clock than id like, but it came with a stack of receipts, and it was in good mechanical condition. The bodywork and interior though i'd describe as scruffy - it really has been used as an estate car - stone chips, dings on the interior, a few missing bits of trim. Amazingly Ecutek had a car lift at lockup where they kept the car, so I was able to inspect it fully underneath - the exhaust was more filler than metal, so that would need changing soon. Overall, it needed a little tic, but was technically solid. Great for me, a bit of a rolling project. I plan to us it as a working car too. For work, camping holidays, Le mans, going to festivals, mountain biking and so on - so I wasn't after a garage queen.
So a deal was made.
So far, it's been good to live with - the power delivery is very old school, not much below 3000 rpm, then a big surge of power from then on. I'm a little bit of a lazy driver, so id like a little more low down torque myself. Perhaps the 3 litre uk spec B version would have suited me better? Still, it's nice to have slightly more unique model. The exhaust needs changing soon, so with a better flowing exhaust, a sports cat, it might be possible to get a remap which unlocks a little more torque lower down.
The practical side of the car is great - lots of little touches that impressed me. The rear boot cover can be stowed in a special place under the boot, so you don't have to leave it behind when taking a lot of equipment. The boot floor has a little hook to hold it open when you need to get spare wheel or tools. The rear seats also fold down by themselves when you press a button. Great when you find something won't quite fit in the boot - just press button, seats flip down, push large item further in - job done.
It's great to have such a discreet performance car - no-one looks twice at it in a car park, and it even the exhaust note doesn't give anything away - it doesn't have that classic scooby burble. The car itself is very fun to drive - coming from a very nice e46 325ti, i do miss the silky smooth engine of that car - and it was a very good motorway cruiser. The legacy has a more savage power delivery, and it really doesn't really know its an estate car - with firmer suspension, it almost feels nimbler. It may not be as comfy on the motorway as my old bmw - but point the subaru to a B road, and it's completely at home.
There have been some oddities in owning a japanese import:
- it prefers to fed on super unleaded. (i tend to research where i buy fuel now, to get the best price. I may get the car mapped for 95 ron in the future). - The radio will only pick up lower FM frequencies, as the frequencies in japan are lower - so only radio 2 for now.
- Oh and theres a flare in the boot!
Im no stranger to a spanner, so I plan to give it a little tlc to bring it back to it's best- i'll replace the missing and damaged bits of trim over time and keep the car in good mechanical condition. Exhaust and probably bushes to tighten the car up a little, will be next. I also want to retro-fit a few bits the car lacks - cruise control, multifunction steering wheel, auto dim rear mirror, which hopefully can all sourced from eBay from the later facelift versions of the gen 4 legacy.
So far i've been using it every week for work and general getting about and i've just got back from a great festival and then on to a camping trip with my other half, and so far the car continues to perform it's duties admirably.
Taking my career in a different direction, meant needing a car with a large boot - but I wasn't content to be sensible (and perhaps i should be!), so I started my search by working out my requirements - estate shape for boot size, ideally more than 200 ponies, discreet looking, manual, and fairly reliable. A lot of pokey estates do tend to be autos, but I'm an old fashioned guy, and i just prefer manual myself.
A good BMW e46 330 touring would have been lovely, but hard to find one that hasn't gone to the moon and back. I've always thought the 4th legacy's look good, and the spec B version has a silky smooth NA 3 litre engine - but finding one in budget was tricky. Then I stumbled upon this - a 2.0 GT twinscroll. Only sold in japan, it puts out a little more power than the spec B uk version, and has the 2.0 turbo engine from the impreza STI of that generation. - 280bhp versus the 3 litres 250. Bilstien shocks as standard, and spacious estate boot, and also not too heavy for the size - meant this was a great choice as an all rounder. To top it all, it was only a few miles away - so i went for a look.
(in it's natural habitat)
It turned out to be owned for the last 10 years, by the MD of Ecutek, a well regarded company that specialises in japanese car ECU programming and diagnostic software. He'd kept it standard, and been using it as an estate car, to ferry bits for the company around the country. Mechanically the car was in great condition - more miles on the clock than id like, but it came with a stack of receipts, and it was in good mechanical condition. The bodywork and interior though i'd describe as scruffy - it really has been used as an estate car - stone chips, dings on the interior, a few missing bits of trim. Amazingly Ecutek had a car lift at lockup where they kept the car, so I was able to inspect it fully underneath - the exhaust was more filler than metal, so that would need changing soon. Overall, it needed a little tic, but was technically solid. Great for me, a bit of a rolling project. I plan to us it as a working car too. For work, camping holidays, Le mans, going to festivals, mountain biking and so on - so I wasn't after a garage queen.
So a deal was made.
So far, it's been good to live with - the power delivery is very old school, not much below 3000 rpm, then a big surge of power from then on. I'm a little bit of a lazy driver, so id like a little more low down torque myself. Perhaps the 3 litre uk spec B version would have suited me better? Still, it's nice to have slightly more unique model. The exhaust needs changing soon, so with a better flowing exhaust, a sports cat, it might be possible to get a remap which unlocks a little more torque lower down.
The practical side of the car is great - lots of little touches that impressed me. The rear boot cover can be stowed in a special place under the boot, so you don't have to leave it behind when taking a lot of equipment. The boot floor has a little hook to hold it open when you need to get spare wheel or tools. The rear seats also fold down by themselves when you press a button. Great when you find something won't quite fit in the boot - just press button, seats flip down, push large item further in - job done.
It's great to have such a discreet performance car - no-one looks twice at it in a car park, and it even the exhaust note doesn't give anything away - it doesn't have that classic scooby burble. The car itself is very fun to drive - coming from a very nice e46 325ti, i do miss the silky smooth engine of that car - and it was a very good motorway cruiser. The legacy has a more savage power delivery, and it really doesn't really know its an estate car - with firmer suspension, it almost feels nimbler. It may not be as comfy on the motorway as my old bmw - but point the subaru to a B road, and it's completely at home.
There have been some oddities in owning a japanese import:
- it prefers to fed on super unleaded. (i tend to research where i buy fuel now, to get the best price. I may get the car mapped for 95 ron in the future). - The radio will only pick up lower FM frequencies, as the frequencies in japan are lower - so only radio 2 for now.
- Oh and theres a flare in the boot!
Im no stranger to a spanner, so I plan to give it a little tlc to bring it back to it's best- i'll replace the missing and damaged bits of trim over time and keep the car in good mechanical condition. Exhaust and probably bushes to tighten the car up a little, will be next. I also want to retro-fit a few bits the car lacks - cruise control, multifunction steering wheel, auto dim rear mirror, which hopefully can all sourced from eBay from the later facelift versions of the gen 4 legacy.
So far i've been using it every week for work and general getting about and i've just got back from a great festival and then on to a camping trip with my other half, and so far the car continues to perform it's duties admirably.
Edited by Fordo on Thursday 22 June 11:49
Lovely car, I used to have a Spec B Tourer, it was a brilliant car.
The Jap cars didn't get the sat-nav, but they did have a proper stereo din slot so you could replace the utterly awful standard headunit. The UK/Euro cars had an awful all-in-one dash that incorporated the headunit and climate controls and couldn't (easily) be replaced.
I'll be watching this thread with interest, cheers
The Jap cars didn't get the sat-nav, but they did have a proper stereo din slot so you could replace the utterly awful standard headunit. The UK/Euro cars had an awful all-in-one dash that incorporated the headunit and climate controls and couldn't (easily) be replaced.
I'll be watching this thread with interest, cheers
Insert Coin said:
Lovely car, I used to have a Spec B Tourer, it was a brilliant car.
The Jap cars didn't get the sat-nav, but they did have a proper stereo din slot so you could replace the utterly awful standard headunit. The UK/Euro cars had an awful all-in-one dash that incorporated the headunit and climate controls and couldn't (easily) be replaced.
I'll be watching this thread with interest, cheers
Sadly this spec does have the built in system too like the uk models - but thankfully the car also came with a double din + climate control centre console facia, which will make things nice and easy if I decide to modernise The Jap cars didn't get the sat-nav, but they did have a proper stereo din slot so you could replace the utterly awful standard headunit. The UK/Euro cars had an awful all-in-one dash that incorporated the headunit and climate controls and couldn't (easily) be replaced.
I'll be watching this thread with interest, cheers
Fordo said:
Sadly this spec does have the built in system too like the uk models - but thankfully the car also came with a double din + climate control centre console facia, which will make things nice and easy if I decide to modernise
Wow, that makes it quite unusual then? I saw quite a few JDM's without the Satnav. I tried to buy one of those fascia's but never had any luck.We had the boggo 2.5 but exhaust and bushes were the only things it ever needed.
Exhaust though was dealer only - no 3rd party suppliers had anything and it was cheaper to get one made up in stainless than to get one from the dealer. Hopefully that's changed now (this was back when the cars were fairly new).
Great cars though, we thoroughly enjoyed ours. We had a smallholding at the time and the car just coped everywhere, it was especially gratifying pulling stuck cars from country lanes in the snow - aside from ride height they're very capable cars off-road.
Exhaust though was dealer only - no 3rd party suppliers had anything and it was cheaper to get one made up in stainless than to get one from the dealer. Hopefully that's changed now (this was back when the cars were fairly new).
Great cars though, we thoroughly enjoyed ours. We had a smallholding at the time and the car just coped everywhere, it was especially gratifying pulling stuck cars from country lanes in the snow - aside from ride height they're very capable cars off-road.
Insert Coin said:
Fordo said:
Sadly this spec does have the built in system too like the uk models - but thankfully the car also came with a double din + climate control centre console facia, which will make things nice and easy if I decide to modernise
Wow, that makes it quite unusual then? I saw quite a few JDM's without the Satnav. I tried to buy one of those fascia's but never had any luck.Great cars, we had the 2.5 Outback of this and loved it.
martinnitram said:
I'm surprised your legacy never got re mapped what with the previous owner being MD of ecutec.
Never realised they did a twin scroll version, does this one have the forged internals then ?
From what i've read, i don't think internals are forged. - From a scan on the forums, anyone who's had one mapped past 300bhp, has made it go pop. Never realised they did a twin scroll version, does this one have the forged internals then ?
Seems like subaru did quite a good job of getting the most out of it they could, reliably.
Mark Benson said:
We had the boggo 2.5 but exhaust and bushes were the only things it ever needed.
Exhaust though was dealer only - no 3rd party suppliers had anything and it was cheaper to get one made up in stainless than to get one from the dealer. Hopefully that's changed now (this was back when the cars were fairly new).
.
sadly not - after a bit of research, I've found you can't get the twin scroll exhaust in the uk. It's larger bore than the 3 litre spec B, and its not viable through dealers here since it wasn't sold. So the options are import in from japan, or get a stainless custom one. - which is a bit of s shame, as both of those options are a little costlyExhaust though was dealer only - no 3rd party suppliers had anything and it was cheaper to get one made up in stainless than to get one from the dealer. Hopefully that's changed now (this was back when the cars were fairly new).
.
I'm hoping I might source a 2nd hand one OE or stainless exhaust, if I keep my eyes open on the internet
MDMA . said:
I have the 2.5 tourer as a daily. Good cars. Also, previous owner fitted stainless Y section and twin back boxes. Cheaper than a genuine Y piece alone.
Just had a snoop at your profile - looks lovely in silver. The legacy is one of the few cars I think looks better in estate formSo tlc has been well underway.
I started with the clock / mpg display, which didn't work at all. A bit of googling suggested its the solder inside which dries out around a particular capacitor. Resoldered all joints, but I couldn't coax it back to life, so I gave up and bought a replacement from eBay.
However, as I have a jap import - the climate control is in fahrenheit, and the new clock give outside temps in degrees centigrade. Slightly scratches at my OCD! - but if I may change centre console to fit a double DIN stereo / sat nav, and the new console should have climate control in centigrade. phew.
Next up was the passenger door card - There were mysterious dents in the original one, so I managed to buy a replacement from a chap on a subaru forum. Sadly th replacement had slight damage to it too (the seller didn't realise, and very kindly offered me a refund). I fitted it anyway, as its slightly neater than the original.
Old:
New:
The new one also has a very slight difference - the original has a slight pattern on the plastic. OCD twitching away again..... Ive saved the plastic parts from the original door card, and in the future i'll do a little careful dremmelling and gluing, to install the patterned plastic parts into the new door card, so that it all matches as it should. the devils in the detail!
BTW - just as it worth sharing, this is the amazing bodge job the previous owner had done to the exhaust Y section, to get the car though mot. (He was very honest about the car, so it wasn't a surprise, and part of why the car was a bargain in the first place.)
The bodge was actually holding up when I bought the car, but after some long motorway trips, it's now blowing, so i'll need to find a good exhaust place in the south east to get something made up.
And finally, here's why a powerful estate is so excellent; fully loaded with heavy equipment and people, after finishing a job very late, ready to scurry across the b roads and motorways without feeling terribly bogged down.
I started with the clock / mpg display, which didn't work at all. A bit of googling suggested its the solder inside which dries out around a particular capacitor. Resoldered all joints, but I couldn't coax it back to life, so I gave up and bought a replacement from eBay.
However, as I have a jap import - the climate control is in fahrenheit, and the new clock give outside temps in degrees centigrade. Slightly scratches at my OCD! - but if I may change centre console to fit a double DIN stereo / sat nav, and the new console should have climate control in centigrade. phew.
Next up was the passenger door card - There were mysterious dents in the original one, so I managed to buy a replacement from a chap on a subaru forum. Sadly th replacement had slight damage to it too (the seller didn't realise, and very kindly offered me a refund). I fitted it anyway, as its slightly neater than the original.
Old:
New:
The new one also has a very slight difference - the original has a slight pattern on the plastic. OCD twitching away again..... Ive saved the plastic parts from the original door card, and in the future i'll do a little careful dremmelling and gluing, to install the patterned plastic parts into the new door card, so that it all matches as it should. the devils in the detail!
BTW - just as it worth sharing, this is the amazing bodge job the previous owner had done to the exhaust Y section, to get the car though mot. (He was very honest about the car, so it wasn't a surprise, and part of why the car was a bargain in the first place.)
The bodge was actually holding up when I bought the car, but after some long motorway trips, it's now blowing, so i'll need to find a good exhaust place in the south east to get something made up.
And finally, here's why a powerful estate is so excellent; fully loaded with heavy equipment and people, after finishing a job very late, ready to scurry across the b roads and motorways without feeling terribly bogged down.
Edited by Fordo on Friday 23 June 15:50
I am glad that you are enjoying the car. Here is a bit more information on it, that might be useful or that you might be wondering about...
The original stereo, as imported from Japan was a single integrated unit, including the air con controls. So that I could fit a double DIN Kenwood SatNav, I bought an OEM DIN mount and separate AC controls. If anyone else is looking to do the same, I bought these from Ian Litchfield - he is used to converting JDM cars and sourced these from the US. These I believe came from the US STI which shared the same dash at the time. Bear in mind this was 13 years ago, so I may have the exact vehicle wrong, but it was definitely US, hence the Fahrenheit.
I'm glad you got the clock working. My Dad's Legacy had exactly the same fault and his was a UK from the same year. Definitely some sort of design fault in that model year.
Btw, it has been remapped - the JDM speed limit has been removed!
The only thing that I really missed on that car was cruise control. You can buy the stalks as a retro-fit, but I never got round to that.
And if you were wondering what the snags on the door card were - these were from transporting 10 sheets of flooring grade chipboard back from Wickes to board the loft. They slid forward when someone locked up in front of me on the way home.
It's great to see it being restored to its former glory.
I currently have another JDM Legacy Import - a 2012MY 2 litre CVT GT DIT.
Contact me in 10 years and maybe I can sell you that too!
Cheers
Steve
The original stereo, as imported from Japan was a single integrated unit, including the air con controls. So that I could fit a double DIN Kenwood SatNav, I bought an OEM DIN mount and separate AC controls. If anyone else is looking to do the same, I bought these from Ian Litchfield - he is used to converting JDM cars and sourced these from the US. These I believe came from the US STI which shared the same dash at the time. Bear in mind this was 13 years ago, so I may have the exact vehicle wrong, but it was definitely US, hence the Fahrenheit.
I'm glad you got the clock working. My Dad's Legacy had exactly the same fault and his was a UK from the same year. Definitely some sort of design fault in that model year.
Btw, it has been remapped - the JDM speed limit has been removed!
The only thing that I really missed on that car was cruise control. You can buy the stalks as a retro-fit, but I never got round to that.
And if you were wondering what the snags on the door card were - these were from transporting 10 sheets of flooring grade chipboard back from Wickes to board the loft. They slid forward when someone locked up in front of me on the way home.
It's great to see it being restored to its former glory.
I currently have another JDM Legacy Import - a 2012MY 2 litre CVT GT DIT.
Contact me in 10 years and maybe I can sell you that too!
Cheers
Steve
Stephen Done said:
I am glad that you are enjoying the car. Here is a bit more information on it, that might be useful or that you might be wondering about...
The original stereo, as imported from Japan was a single integrated unit, including the air con controls. So that I could fit a double DIN Kenwood SatNav, I bought an OEM DIN mount and separate AC controls. If anyone else is looking to do the same, I bought these from Ian Litchfield - he is used to converting JDM cars and sourced these from the US. These I believe came from the US STI which shared the same dash at the time. Bear in mind this was 13 years ago, so I may have the exact vehicle wrong, but it was definitely US, hence the Fahrenheit.
I'm glad you got the clock working. My Dad's Legacy had exactly the same fault and his was a UK from the same year. Definitely some sort of design fault in that model year.
Btw, it has been remapped - the JDM speed limit has been removed!
The only thing that I really missed on that car was cruise control. You can buy the stalks as a retro-fit, but I never got round to that.
And if you were wondering what the snags on the door card were - these were from transporting 10 sheets of flooring grade chipboard back from Wickes to board the loft. They slid forward when someone locked up in front of me on the way home.
It's great to see it being restored to its former glory.
I currently have another JDM Legacy Import - a 2012MY 2 litre CVT GT DIT.
Contact me in 10 years and maybe I can sell you that too!
Cheers
Steve
Hi Steve! I had no idea you were on Pistonheads. Great to hear from you, and to hear more about the car.The original stereo, as imported from Japan was a single integrated unit, including the air con controls. So that I could fit a double DIN Kenwood SatNav, I bought an OEM DIN mount and separate AC controls. If anyone else is looking to do the same, I bought these from Ian Litchfield - he is used to converting JDM cars and sourced these from the US. These I believe came from the US STI which shared the same dash at the time. Bear in mind this was 13 years ago, so I may have the exact vehicle wrong, but it was definitely US, hence the Fahrenheit.
I'm glad you got the clock working. My Dad's Legacy had exactly the same fault and his was a UK from the same year. Definitely some sort of design fault in that model year.
Btw, it has been remapped - the JDM speed limit has been removed!
The only thing that I really missed on that car was cruise control. You can buy the stalks as a retro-fit, but I never got round to that.
And if you were wondering what the snags on the door card were - these were from transporting 10 sheets of flooring grade chipboard back from Wickes to board the loft. They slid forward when someone locked up in front of me on the way home.
It's great to see it being restored to its former glory.
I currently have another JDM Legacy Import - a 2012MY 2 litre CVT GT DIT.
Contact me in 10 years and maybe I can sell you that too!
Cheers
Steve
I agree with you on cruise control - I didn't think i'd miss it, but you really notice the lack of it when on a long motorway trip, and especially with average speed cameras. i'll retro fit it soon - id read about the stalk, but i might research if its possible to fit the multifunction steering wheel from the facelift models, although that might be a lot of work.
Regarding the car's map - a test on an empty, private closed road, has revealed the pesky JDM speed limiter is definitely still in place. I think i remember Mervyn mentioning that car was on a standard map when picking it up. Perhaps he got the standard map reinstalled?
i'll probably get it removed at some stage too, as I do a fair amount of trips to Germany for work each year, and it would be nice to cruise a little quicker on the derestricted parts.
Is your new legacy in white? I think I saw it parked outside - looked excellent. Run it in nicely for me, will you?
rossub said:
Surprised you find that with the power delivery. The whole point of twin scroll is the boost comes in much earlier. My twin scroll Impreza has very little lag.
I'd been thinking the same thing - I'm probably phasing it awfully, but doest a twin scroll design separate the cylinders that would interfere with each other, to promote a better scavenging effect - which should get gas more efficiently into the turbo?Where do you find your Impreza spools up? I've fitted temporarily a boost gauge just out of curiosity to make sure the turbo is doing what it should and not spiking anywhere - and i'd say by about 3400rpm its reached full boost, spooling up from 2800 / 3000.
I'm sure boost threshold will drop a little when i get an exhaust system made up.
Interestingly i've noticed that the 'eco' button limits boost to 10psi. I may be pressing that button when my other half needs the car.....
My old car was an e46 325ti - so not exactly a torque monster, but i find myself missing the low down torque from that engine. You could waft everywhere in 4th
Edited by Fordo on Saturday 24th June 09:03
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