Welder Recommendations- novice
Discussion
ive got a significant birthday coming up, i wont say which one, and mrs Benengo has offered £400 for something! my first thought was instantly the garage and I was thinking a welder and perhaps a compressor? can anyone recommend a welder for a medium handy, home mechanic but for someone with limited experience with welding?
Edited by Benengo on Saturday 1st July 21:00
what sort of welding do you want to do?
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/mig-welder-r-tech-i...
or
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/tig-welder-240v-ac-... ok this is way over budget but if TIG welding is something your thinking of this gets the thumbs up from me.
I have both these machines, I have had them for about 4 years zero issues and R tech are good to deal with. yes they are chinese machines but back up and help is very good if required.
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/mig-welder-r-tech-i...
or
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/tig-welder-240v-ac-... ok this is way over budget but if TIG welding is something your thinking of this gets the thumbs up from me.
I have both these machines, I have had them for about 4 years zero issues and R tech are good to deal with. yes they are chinese machines but back up and help is very good if required.
10penceparalyzed said:
what sort of welding do you want to do?
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/mig-welder-r-tech-i...
or
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/tig-welder-240v-ac-... ok this is way over budget but if TIG welding is something your thinking of this gets the thumbs up from me.
I have both these machines, I have had them for about 4 years zero issues and R tech are good to deal with. yes they are chinese machines but back up and help is very good if required.
as a novice when it comes to welding, where is the difference between a high quality device such as above and a 'sealy', etc alternative?http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/mig-welder-r-tech-i...
or
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/tig-welder-240v-ac-... ok this is way over budget but if TIG welding is something your thinking of this gets the thumbs up from me.
I have both these machines, I have had them for about 4 years zero issues and R tech are good to deal with. yes they are chinese machines but back up and help is very good if required.
Eurotorch is a must.
I've had a Clarke 151EN for years & done a lot of welding on our own cars - proper Mini, Metro, Range Rover Classic, Peugeots (but only a couple of bits on the Pugs as they're well rustproofed!) and rebuilt my boat trailer with it.
I converted it to eurotorch a couple of years ago & should have done it much sooner.
Don't bother with the little disposable bottles. Waste of time, esp when you're learning on bits of scrap steel. Various sources for the big ones, mine is from BOC but I claim the cost through my business.
I use Argoshield. Switched from CO2 a while ago & well worth the switch.
An auto-darkening shield is another thing I wouldn't be without. Makes life much easier.
That said, how much welding do you think you are likely to be doing & would it actually be used instead of being just another gadget gathering dust in the corner once the novelty has worn off?
I've had a Clarke 151EN for years & done a lot of welding on our own cars - proper Mini, Metro, Range Rover Classic, Peugeots (but only a couple of bits on the Pugs as they're well rustproofed!) and rebuilt my boat trailer with it.
I converted it to eurotorch a couple of years ago & should have done it much sooner.
Don't bother with the little disposable bottles. Waste of time, esp when you're learning on bits of scrap steel. Various sources for the big ones, mine is from BOC but I claim the cost through my business.
I use Argoshield. Switched from CO2 a while ago & well worth the switch.
An auto-darkening shield is another thing I wouldn't be without. Makes life much easier.
That said, how much welding do you think you are likely to be doing & would it actually be used instead of being just another gadget gathering dust in the corner once the novelty has worn off?
paintman said:
Eurotorch is a must.
I've had a Clarke 151EN for years & done a lot of welding on our own cars - proper Mini, Metro, Range Rover Classic, Peugeots (but only a couple of bits on the Pugs as they're well rustproofed!) and rebuilt my boat trailer with it.
I converted it to eurotorch a couple of years ago & should have done it much sooner.
Don't bother with the little disposable bottles. Waste of time, esp when you're learning on bits of scrap steel. Various sources for the big ones, mine is from BOC but I claim the cost through my business.
I use Argoshield. Switched from CO2 a while ago & well worth the switch.
An auto-darkening shield is another thing I wouldn't be without. Makes life much easier.
That said, how much welding do you think you are likely to be doing & would it actually be used instead of being just another gadget gathering dust in the corner once the novelty has worn off?
^^ this is a good point...I've had a Clarke 151EN for years & done a lot of welding on our own cars - proper Mini, Metro, Range Rover Classic, Peugeots (but only a couple of bits on the Pugs as they're well rustproofed!) and rebuilt my boat trailer with it.
I converted it to eurotorch a couple of years ago & should have done it much sooner.
Don't bother with the little disposable bottles. Waste of time, esp when you're learning on bits of scrap steel. Various sources for the big ones, mine is from BOC but I claim the cost through my business.
I use Argoshield. Switched from CO2 a while ago & well worth the switch.
An auto-darkening shield is another thing I wouldn't be without. Makes life much easier.
That said, how much welding do you think you are likely to be doing & would it actually be used instead of being just another gadget gathering dust in the corner once the novelty has worn off?
...however, i've been put off a lot of projects (that also might end up gathering dusts!) for the fear of the welding it would need!..... Is second hand a better option?
A lot of good stuff around 2nd hand & you'll be into the low end of professional machines but you need to know what you're looking at & be sure that it's all in good working order.
Oft quoted link: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/
Taking on a project car that needs a lot of welding might sound like a good idea but it can be hard work & rot is invariably worse than you thought.
I've had my 1986 RRC for around 23 years & I've done a LOT of welding to it....and later ones are worse.
I have a large bore SS exhaust & one of the triangular clamps that hold the Y section to the front silencer has cracked - I believe it to be mild steel due to the amount of corrosion - so the mig will be coming out again shortly!
Oft quoted link: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/
Taking on a project car that needs a lot of welding might sound like a good idea but it can be hard work & rot is invariably worse than you thought.
I've had my 1986 RRC for around 23 years & I've done a LOT of welding to it....and later ones are worse.
I have a large bore SS exhaust & one of the triangular clamps that hold the Y section to the front silencer has cracked - I believe it to be mild steel due to the amount of corrosion - so the mig will be coming out again shortly!
First up choose the system.
Stick - easy to learn and cheap kit, but not suitable for cars. Good for combine harvesters and balers.
MIG - like using a glue gun that shoots metal. Medium priced kit. Good for cars, can weld 0.8mm sheet easily.
TIG - art form, expensive kit. Good for cars, but slow. Steep learning curve.
Gas - another art form, big flames generally not good on cars....
So get a MIG. Get a gas mig, not a gasless, they suck more than a sucky thing.
How much do you spend? Probably more than your budget. You can get a cheapo one for £200 from Machine Mart. You might be lucky, you might not. I used a cheap one for 10 years, and hated welding, it was an utter PITA and always looked awful. I spent a fortune in flap discs smoothing out what looked like bird poo joining the metal together. Thankfully that machine died and I got a Kemppi Miniarc 170. Suddenly I could weld. But that is the thick end of £700. The difference between a cheap one and an expensive one is:
- Cheap ones tend to be big heavy transformer things. Expensive ones tend to be clever electronics - much easier to move around
- Cheap ones have inconsistent drive feeds - this is a real pain for the amateur. Expensive ones have better drive feeds - once you've get it right, it keeps feeding the wire at that speed.
- Cheap ones have cheap torches, when you bend the the torch, the wire slows down and lose the arc. Or it speeds up and you blow holes in whatever you are welding.
You need gas. Avoid disposable bottles - you'll use £100s worth just learning. I used to use BOC, but the rental costs are ugly. Look up ALbee - you pay for the cylinder, but zero rental costs. Welding shops often have other options.
You need a couple of cheap grinders. Bosch's cheapest when on special offer - £40 or so. You'll kill them regularly. One has the slitting disk, the other the grinder, and the other the flap disc.
Face mask - get an auto darkening one. Learning is MUCH harder when using an old fashioned one. With an auto one, you have less chance of arc eye, because you leave it in place. Arc eye hurts, a lot. Imagine your eyes have been removed, the sockets packed with sand, then your eyes put back in. That's about what it feels like for several days.
Decent gloves - or your hands will get one hell of a sun tan. I use TIG gloves because they are thinner. Non combustible clothes. And, er, yes, don't weld in Crocs. That bloody hurts according to my son.
Stick - easy to learn and cheap kit, but not suitable for cars. Good for combine harvesters and balers.
MIG - like using a glue gun that shoots metal. Medium priced kit. Good for cars, can weld 0.8mm sheet easily.
TIG - art form, expensive kit. Good for cars, but slow. Steep learning curve.
Gas - another art form, big flames generally not good on cars....
So get a MIG. Get a gas mig, not a gasless, they suck more than a sucky thing.
How much do you spend? Probably more than your budget. You can get a cheapo one for £200 from Machine Mart. You might be lucky, you might not. I used a cheap one for 10 years, and hated welding, it was an utter PITA and always looked awful. I spent a fortune in flap discs smoothing out what looked like bird poo joining the metal together. Thankfully that machine died and I got a Kemppi Miniarc 170. Suddenly I could weld. But that is the thick end of £700. The difference between a cheap one and an expensive one is:
- Cheap ones tend to be big heavy transformer things. Expensive ones tend to be clever electronics - much easier to move around
- Cheap ones have inconsistent drive feeds - this is a real pain for the amateur. Expensive ones have better drive feeds - once you've get it right, it keeps feeding the wire at that speed.
- Cheap ones have cheap torches, when you bend the the torch, the wire slows down and lose the arc. Or it speeds up and you blow holes in whatever you are welding.
You need gas. Avoid disposable bottles - you'll use £100s worth just learning. I used to use BOC, but the rental costs are ugly. Look up ALbee - you pay for the cylinder, but zero rental costs. Welding shops often have other options.
You need a couple of cheap grinders. Bosch's cheapest when on special offer - £40 or so. You'll kill them regularly. One has the slitting disk, the other the grinder, and the other the flap disc.
Face mask - get an auto darkening one. Learning is MUCH harder when using an old fashioned one. With an auto one, you have less chance of arc eye, because you leave it in place. Arc eye hurts, a lot. Imagine your eyes have been removed, the sockets packed with sand, then your eyes put back in. That's about what it feels like for several days.
Decent gloves - or your hands will get one hell of a sun tan. I use TIG gloves because they are thinner. Non combustible clothes. And, er, yes, don't weld in Crocs. That bloody hurts according to my son.
Edited by rxe on Sunday 2nd July 00:55
rxe said:
First up choose the system.
Stick - easy to learn and cheap kit, but not suitable for cars. Good for combine harvesters and balers.
MIG - like using a glue gun that shoots metal. Medium priced kit. Good for cars, can weld 0.8mm sheet easily.
TIG - art form, expensive kit. Good for cars, but slow. Steep learning curve.
Gas - another art form, big flames generally not good on cars....
So get a MIG. Get a gas mig, not a gasless, they suck more than a sucky thing.
How much do you spend? Probably more than your budget. You can get a cheapo one for £200 from Machine Mart. You might be lucky, you might not. I used a cheap one for 10 years, and hated welding, it was an utter PITA and always looked awful. I spent a fortune in flap discs smoothing out what looked like bird poo joining the metal together. Thankfully that machine died and I got a Kemppi Miniarc 170. Suddenly I could weld. But that is the thick end of £700. The difference between a cheap one and an expensive one is:
- Cheap ones tend to be big heavy transformer things. Expensive ones tend to be clever electronics - much easier to move around
- Cheap ones have inconsistent drive feeds - this is a real pain for the amateur. Expensive ones have better drive feeds - once you've get it right, it keeps feeding the wire at that speed.
- Cheap ones have cheap torches, when you bend the the torch, the wire slows down and lose the arc. Or it speeds up and you blow holes in whatever you are welding.
You need gas. Avoid disposable bottles - you'll use £100s worth just learning. I used to use BOC, but the rental costs are ugly. Look up ALbee - you pay for the cylinder, but zero rental costs. Welding shops often have other options.
You need a couple of cheap grinders. Bosch's cheapest when on special offer - £40 or so. You'll kill them regularly. One has the slitting disk, the other the grinder, and the other the flap disc.
Face mask - get an auto darkening one. Learning is MUCH harder when using an old fashioned one. With an auto one, you have less chance of arc eye, because you leave it in place. Arc eye hurts, a lot. Imagine your eyes have been removed, the sockets packed with sand, then your eyes put back in. That's about what it feels like for several days.
Decent gloves - or your hands will get one hell of a sun tan. I use TIG gloves because they are thinner. Non combustible clothes. And, er, yes, don't weld in Crocs. That bloody hurts according to my son.
Brilliant post^^ thanks!Stick - easy to learn and cheap kit, but not suitable for cars. Good for combine harvesters and balers.
MIG - like using a glue gun that shoots metal. Medium priced kit. Good for cars, can weld 0.8mm sheet easily.
TIG - art form, expensive kit. Good for cars, but slow. Steep learning curve.
Gas - another art form, big flames generally not good on cars....
So get a MIG. Get a gas mig, not a gasless, they suck more than a sucky thing.
How much do you spend? Probably more than your budget. You can get a cheapo one for £200 from Machine Mart. You might be lucky, you might not. I used a cheap one for 10 years, and hated welding, it was an utter PITA and always looked awful. I spent a fortune in flap discs smoothing out what looked like bird poo joining the metal together. Thankfully that machine died and I got a Kemppi Miniarc 170. Suddenly I could weld. But that is the thick end of £700. The difference between a cheap one and an expensive one is:
- Cheap ones tend to be big heavy transformer things. Expensive ones tend to be clever electronics - much easier to move around
- Cheap ones have inconsistent drive feeds - this is a real pain for the amateur. Expensive ones have better drive feeds - once you've get it right, it keeps feeding the wire at that speed.
- Cheap ones have cheap torches, when you bend the the torch, the wire slows down and lose the arc. Or it speeds up and you blow holes in whatever you are welding.
You need gas. Avoid disposable bottles - you'll use £100s worth just learning. I used to use BOC, but the rental costs are ugly. Look up ALbee - you pay for the cylinder, but zero rental costs. Welding shops often have other options.
You need a couple of cheap grinders. Bosch's cheapest when on special offer - £40 or so. You'll kill them regularly. One has the slitting disk, the other the grinder, and the other the flap disc.
Face mask - get an auto darkening one. Learning is MUCH harder when using an old fashioned one. With an auto one, you have less chance of arc eye, because you leave it in place. Arc eye hurts, a lot. Imagine your eyes have been removed, the sockets packed with sand, then your eyes put back in. That's about what it feels like for several days.
Decent gloves - or your hands will get one hell of a sun tan. I use TIG gloves because they are thinner. Non combustible clothes. And, er, yes, don't weld in Crocs. That bloody hurts according to my son.
Edited by rxe on Sunday 2nd July 00:55
Go and do a course at night school or one of the restoration type week long teach-ins .Mig welding is the easiest to pick up ,even I get quite proficient with practice.
As others have said a professional set up will be so much better to use and can be a bargain if bought second hand .
Cheapo kit is exactly that ,and if your a novice you will find it difficult to make progress and will get frustrated .
Plenty of good second hand stuff out there .
Once you've done a course you'll know what capicty welder that you will need to look for .
Keep some spares handy ,liners for the torch head and tips and shrouds .A couple of decent grinders and away you go .The actual welding time on a job is short, the preparation of the job is where the standard of the finished job happens .
It is very satisfying when you get the first job done as planned ! It might take a few false starts though .
As others have said a professional set up will be so much better to use and can be a bargain if bought second hand .
Cheapo kit is exactly that ,and if your a novice you will find it difficult to make progress and will get frustrated .
Plenty of good second hand stuff out there .
Once you've done a course you'll know what capicty welder that you will need to look for .
Keep some spares handy ,liners for the torch head and tips and shrouds .A couple of decent grinders and away you go .The actual welding time on a job is short, the preparation of the job is where the standard of the finished job happens .
It is very satisfying when you get the first job done as planned ! It might take a few false starts though .
paintman said:
Eurotorch is a must.
I've had a Clarke 151EN for years & done a lot of welding on our own cars - proper Mini, Metro, Range Rover Classic, Peugeots (but only a couple of bits on the Pugs as they're well rustproofed!) and rebuilt my boat trailer with it.
I converted it to eurotorch a couple of years ago & should have done it much sooner.
Don't bother with the little disposable bottles. Waste of time, esp when you're learning on bits of scrap steel. Various sources for the big ones, mine is from BOC but I claim the cost through my business.
I use Argoshield. Switched from CO2 a while ago & well worth the switch.
An auto-darkening shield is another thing I wouldn't be without. Makes life much easier.
That said, how much welding do you think you are likely to be doing & would it actually be used instead of being just another gadget gathering dust in the corner once the novelty has worn off?
I went through exactly the same learning curve. I bought a second hand Cebora mig and used it for years on a pub CO2 bottle. Over time I've switched to argoshield, and converted it to Eurotorch. Welding is now much easier and more consistent than it ever was. I've had a Clarke 151EN for years & done a lot of welding on our own cars - proper Mini, Metro, Range Rover Classic, Peugeots (but only a couple of bits on the Pugs as they're well rustproofed!) and rebuilt my boat trailer with it.
I converted it to eurotorch a couple of years ago & should have done it much sooner.
Don't bother with the little disposable bottles. Waste of time, esp when you're learning on bits of scrap steel. Various sources for the big ones, mine is from BOC but I claim the cost through my business.
I use Argoshield. Switched from CO2 a while ago & well worth the switch.
An auto-darkening shield is another thing I wouldn't be without. Makes life much easier.
That said, how much welding do you think you are likely to be doing & would it actually be used instead of being just another gadget gathering dust in the corner once the novelty has worn off?
As said before get yourself on a night class on your local college.
I was on a one day course sponsored by work which was only a snippet off the 6 week course that our local technical college offer and I learnt alot.
We had a complete novice, (and I mean she was afraid to pull the trigger on the might torch when it was in mid air!!) doing very decent welds within half an hour of starting the practical session.
I got some tips to improve my concave weld finish and finally an explanation of why my stick welding sometimes is pants when the rest of the weld is 100%.
It'll be the best money you'll ever spend, the kit will be secondary if you don't have the knowledge to use it.
I was on a one day course sponsored by work which was only a snippet off the 6 week course that our local technical college offer and I learnt alot.
We had a complete novice, (and I mean she was afraid to pull the trigger on the might torch when it was in mid air!!) doing very decent welds within half an hour of starting the practical session.
I got some tips to improve my concave weld finish and finally an explanation of why my stick welding sometimes is pants when the rest of the weld is 100%.
It'll be the best money you'll ever spend, the kit will be secondary if you don't have the knowledge to use it.
I have had my SIP 150 topmig turbo for over 20 years .
Never let me down once ,Get a pub gas bottle last longer. Also bottles have to be tested every ten years cost about 90 pounds. Many outlets will not refill them otherwise.
Did a welding course one of the best thing I did.
Welding better with gas,the difference between a good welder and a bad one answer 1000 hours quote from my old welding teacher.
He was right.
Never let me down once ,Get a pub gas bottle last longer. Also bottles have to be tested every ten years cost about 90 pounds. Many outlets will not refill them otherwise.
Did a welding course one of the best thing I did.
Welding better with gas,the difference between a good welder and a bad one answer 1000 hours quote from my old welding teacher.
He was right.
Edited by SEE YA on Monday 3rd July 20:09
Edited by SEE YA on Tuesday 4th July 06:37
From another perspective about the gasless (flux cored wire) welders, of which I've had one since the early 90's when they were quite new;
You can weld anywhere, at anytime with them i.e. a windy day on a driveway which can be tricky with a gas shielded mig as the gas gets blown away.
With the gasless, getting the work pieces as clean as possible helps a lot and very good results can be had.
As above an auto dimming mask is well worth investing in.
As for learning, practice, practice, practice. Get some scrap panels or even some steel sheet and get stuck in.
You can weld anywhere, at anytime with them i.e. a windy day on a driveway which can be tricky with a gas shielded mig as the gas gets blown away.
With the gasless, getting the work pieces as clean as possible helps a lot and very good results can be had.
As above an auto dimming mask is well worth investing in.
As for learning, practice, practice, practice. Get some scrap panels or even some steel sheet and get stuck in.
All good advice above.
My contribution: Don't know if they are still available, but my first Mig welder had no cooling fan, to keep down the price - and the tempertaure cut out would cut out after twenty minutes, and take another two hours to cool down. The kit was prefectly good, apart from this, and strapping an old extractor fan on the side cured it, but don't buy one without a fan!
++ for auto-darkening mask!
You also wondered about a compressor - you can't afford both for £400! BUt if you go that way, get a belt driven one, not a 'direct drive' compressir, as they are VERY LOUD!
John
My contribution: Don't know if they are still available, but my first Mig welder had no cooling fan, to keep down the price - and the tempertaure cut out would cut out after twenty minutes, and take another two hours to cool down. The kit was prefectly good, apart from this, and strapping an old extractor fan on the side cured it, but don't buy one without a fan!
++ for auto-darkening mask!
You also wondered about a compressor - you can't afford both for £400! BUt if you go that way, get a belt driven one, not a 'direct drive' compressir, as they are VERY LOUD!
John
paintman said:
Eurotorch is a must.
I've had a Clarke 151EN for years & done a lot of welding on our own cars - proper Mini, Metro, Range Rover Classic, Peugeots (but only a couple of bits on the Pugs as they're well rustproofed!) and rebuilt my boat trailer with it.
I converted it to eurotorch a couple of years ago & should have done it much sooner.
Don't bother with the little disposable bottles. Waste of time, esp when you're learning on bits of scrap steel. Various sources for the big ones, mine is from BOC but I claim the cost through my business.
I use Argoshield. Switched from CO2 a while ago & well worth the switch.
An auto-darkening shield is another thing I wouldn't be without. Makes life much easier.
That said, how much welding do you think you are likely to be doing & would it actually be used instead of being just another gadget gathering dust in the corner once the novelty has worn off?
Hi PaintmanI've had a Clarke 151EN for years & done a lot of welding on our own cars - proper Mini, Metro, Range Rover Classic, Peugeots (but only a couple of bits on the Pugs as they're well rustproofed!) and rebuilt my boat trailer with it.
I converted it to eurotorch a couple of years ago & should have done it much sooner.
Don't bother with the little disposable bottles. Waste of time, esp when you're learning on bits of scrap steel. Various sources for the big ones, mine is from BOC but I claim the cost through my business.
I use Argoshield. Switched from CO2 a while ago & well worth the switch.
An auto-darkening shield is another thing I wouldn't be without. Makes life much easier.
That said, how much welding do you think you are likely to be doing & would it actually be used instead of being just another gadget gathering dust in the corner once the novelty has worn off?
I have a Clarke 160EN and was wondering first of all what are the benefits of the Eurotorch and what is involved in the conversion?
Many thanks.
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