INPA for an E36
Discussion
Well, I´m not too happy with my 328i E36 (130k miles). I think the engine should be smoother, and a couple of friends (former 328i owners) told me the same. My car goes well, isn´t heavy on fuel, doesn´t stall, etc..but it doesn´t "feel" right, and doesn´t go as hard as it should.
I went to two different workshops to get the car scanned, but no error codes were found. The code readers they used seemed rather generic (not only for BMWs, but for more cars), so perhaps they´re not the most adequate.
So rather than start replacing crankshaft sensor/ coils/ lambda sensors/ MAF sensor/ etc...I think it´s better to try INPA software, I´ve been told that you can check engine sensors condition and make a cylinder "rough test".
I still have got an old laptop with serial port and XP (the best for INPA and ADS interface?) and I´m trying to buy a serial port-ADS cable, can you indicate me a good seller?
Thanks!
I went to two different workshops to get the car scanned, but no error codes were found. The code readers they used seemed rather generic (not only for BMWs, but for more cars), so perhaps they´re not the most adequate.
So rather than start replacing crankshaft sensor/ coils/ lambda sensors/ MAF sensor/ etc...I think it´s better to try INPA software, I´ve been told that you can check engine sensors condition and make a cylinder "rough test".
I still have got an old laptop with serial port and XP (the best for INPA and ADS interface?) and I´m trying to buy a serial port-ADS cable, can you indicate me a good seller?
Thanks!
Start with a compression test.
I don't know if INPA does it, but the only thing that diag software could do for you is data log sensor data, then compare that to another car - you might see some differences, but even then those differences might be explainable.
I'd be taking note of lambda, injector duration, air mass flow and go from there.
I don't know if INPA does it, but the only thing that diag software could do for you is data log sensor data, then compare that to another car - you might see some differences, but even then those differences might be explainable.
I'd be taking note of lambda, injector duration, air mass flow and go from there.
I'm also looking at inpa. Don't need it right now as it's mainly rust that needs dealt with but my musings on inpa are towards the bottom of page 2 of my car's thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Crafty_ said:
Start with a compression test.
I don't know if INPA does it, but the only thing that diag software could do for you is data log sensor data, then compare that to another car - you might see some differences, but even then those differences might be explainable.
I'd be taking note of lambda, injector duration, air mass flow and go from there.
They say INPA is rather complex, and I should be careful using it, but well, it´s a question of wasting a bit of time on it once it´s installed on the laptop.I don't know if INPA does it, but the only thing that diag software could do for you is data log sensor data, then compare that to another car - you might see some differences, but even then those differences might be explainable.
I'd be taking note of lambda, injector duration, air mass flow and go from there.
I didn´t think of doing a compression test, it´s a good idea. At least oil consumption is negligible on Motul X-Cess 5w40 syntethic.
Edited by B234R on Tuesday 4th July 21:45
NiceCupOfTea said:
PS - is it a nikasil engine? If you open the drivers door can you see the top outside corner vibrating?
No, it´s not Nikasil...Long story short: 328i Touring bought two years ago, a few months later I discovered heavy oil consumption. After hesitating of taking apart the engine, I decided to swap for a second hand one from a June ´98 528i (not Nikasil, as I see in this picture http://i37.tinypic.com/123s8r5.jpg ). Wise move, as after replacing the engine my mechanic took apart the old engine and saw the liners were damaged.
After the swap, VANOS ring and camshaft position sensor were replaced. That improved a lot engine response and power at low rpm, and cured a random stall when idling.
Edited by B234R on Tuesday 4th July 21:45
Edited by B234R on Tuesday 4th July 21:46
Anybody knows where I can buy an INPA/serial port cable in the UK? I´ve seen this in the US, but to save time and money (from my country´s customs, they´re charging for every parcel sent from US) I would prefer buying it in the UK/EU.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiny-ADS-Interface-with-di...
Thanks!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiny-ADS-Interface-with-di...
Thanks!
Speak to Jimmy at Cableshack. He'll be able to sort you out.
It may not apply to yours but my "Flash" USB cable works on a mate's E46 328i using a round to OBD converter with INPA being great.
As for your rough running:
-How old are your plugs and which plugs are they?
-How iffy is your MAF to inlet manifold boot. You could try to disconnect the MAF to rule this one out ; I know my E46 M3 goes to a default value if I do this.
-How tappety is your engine?
On a friend's E46 328i his engine was not the smoothest of runners. We did the following:
-Plugs ; they were shot to bits with quite a few of them being original BMW items! ; it improved it alot but it was still missing
-Full Service ; this helped too but not as much as the above
-Oil flush ; In our E36 323i with less miles changing the oil more often wouldn't shift the crud from the engine. With this we whacked in some engine flush, then put some other oil in before going back to a normal oil again. This quietened down the tappets quite a bit. If I am honest this also helped the engine to run alot nicer too.
Since then I can't really fault the running of the car.
It may not apply to yours but my "Flash" USB cable works on a mate's E46 328i using a round to OBD converter with INPA being great.
As for your rough running:
-How old are your plugs and which plugs are they?
-How iffy is your MAF to inlet manifold boot. You could try to disconnect the MAF to rule this one out ; I know my E46 M3 goes to a default value if I do this.
-How tappety is your engine?
On a friend's E46 328i his engine was not the smoothest of runners. We did the following:
-Plugs ; they were shot to bits with quite a few of them being original BMW items! ; it improved it alot but it was still missing
-Full Service ; this helped too but not as much as the above
-Oil flush ; In our E36 323i with less miles changing the oil more often wouldn't shift the crud from the engine. With this we whacked in some engine flush, then put some other oil in before going back to a normal oil again. This quietened down the tappets quite a bit. If I am honest this also helped the engine to run alot nicer too.
Since then I can't really fault the running of the car.
If I am honest E46 M3 is picky.
What was stranger is that my E36 323i was too. While it seemed to run similar at idle on both 95 and 98 it definitely lost the bogging down feeling when leaving the lights. It was proven with a couple of other drivers too. I was surprised as it is a detuned 325i in essence.
My friend has noticed a similar thing on his E89 Z4 30i sDrive. His did used to noticably start up rough on 95 as in only run on what seemed like 4 cylinders for a good few seconds. Enough for him to consider taking it to BMW (it's under warranty). Stopped completely with the 98/V-Power/Momentum.
What was stranger is that my E36 323i was too. While it seemed to run similar at idle on both 95 and 98 it definitely lost the bogging down feeling when leaving the lights. It was proven with a couple of other drivers too. I was surprised as it is a detuned 325i in essence.
My friend has noticed a similar thing on his E89 Z4 30i sDrive. His did used to noticably start up rough on 95 as in only run on what seemed like 4 cylinders for a good few seconds. Enough for him to consider taking it to BMW (it's under warranty). Stopped completely with the 98/V-Power/Momentum.
B234R said:
Anybody knows where I can buy an INPA/serial port cable in the UK? I´ve seen this in the US, but to save time and money (from my country´s customs, they´re charging for every parcel sent from US) I would prefer buying it in the UK/EU.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiny-ADS-Interface-with-di...
Thanks!
This is the one I'm looking at, if you do find one more locally, please post a link here. Thankshttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiny-ADS-Interface-with-di...
Thanks!
SebringMan said:
Speak to Jimmy at Cableshack. He'll be able to sort you out.
It may not apply to yours but my "Flash" USB cable works on a mate's E46 328i using a round to OBD converter with INPA being great.
As for your rough running:
-How old are your plugs and which plugs are they?
-How iffy is your MAF to inlet manifold boot. You could try to disconnect the MAF to rule this one out ; I know my E46 M3 goes to a default value if I do this.
-How tappety is your engine?
On a friend's E46 328i his engine was not the smoothest of runners. We did the following:
-Plugs ; they were shot to bits with quite a few of them being original BMW items! ; it improved it alot but it was still missing
-Full Service ; this helped too but not as much as the above
-Oil flush ; In our E36 323i with less miles changing the oil more often wouldn't shift the crud from the engine. With this we whacked in some engine flush, then put some other oil in before going back to a normal oil again. This quietened down the tappets quite a bit. If I am honest this also helped the engine to run alot nicer too.
Since then I can't really fault the running of the car.
I´ve just spoken with Jimmy, he sells the tiny ADS interface but without the 20 pin connector and cable; I´m a disaster with a soldering iron, so I would prefer to buy the "complete" interface .It may not apply to yours but my "Flash" USB cable works on a mate's E46 328i using a round to OBD converter with INPA being great.
As for your rough running:
-How old are your plugs and which plugs are they?
-How iffy is your MAF to inlet manifold boot. You could try to disconnect the MAF to rule this one out ; I know my E46 M3 goes to a default value if I do this.
-How tappety is your engine?
On a friend's E46 328i his engine was not the smoothest of runners. We did the following:
-Plugs ; they were shot to bits with quite a few of them being original BMW items! ; it improved it alot but it was still missing
-Full Service ; this helped too but not as much as the above
-Oil flush ; In our E36 323i with less miles changing the oil more often wouldn't shift the crud from the engine. With this we whacked in some engine flush, then put some other oil in before going back to a normal oil again. This quietened down the tappets quite a bit. If I am honest this also helped the engine to run alot nicer too.
Since then I can't really fault the running of the car.
About USB cable, I´ve been told that only a serial port cable will work with INPA in an E36.
On the rough running engine, it´s an ex-528i E39 unit built in mid-1998 not-Nikasil, replacing my old engine (it burned massive amounts of oil), with about 110k miles on it, spark plugs have about 7k miles (Bosch Super 4 FR78X, they´re not the recommended in the owner´s manual but somebody told me these work very well on M52s...).
The inlet manifold boot is in good condition, I changed it two years ago.
I haven´t tried to disconnect the MAF, could it damage something (exhaust cats, etc...)?
My engine is a bit tappety; very quiet when cold, but it sounds a bit "diesel" when hot. It´s quieter since I changed to 5w40 Motul X-cess oil (before changing oil I poured some Motul Engine Cleaner).
Cam sensor and VANOS seals where replaced about four months ago.
LanceRS said:
What fuel are you using? My old 328 was sensitive to the stuff, I ran it on Esso Super plus but when my wife used it and put Asda fuel in, it was awful. Very sluggish and unresponsive.
Try putting something called Cataclean through the fuel system too, seemed to clean it out nicely.
I´m using 95, I always go to a nearby Shell petrol station. A couple of months ago I filled the tank up with 98 V-Power, but I didn´t see any difference.Try putting something called Cataclean through the fuel system too, seemed to clean it out nicely.
I´ve just seen that Cataclean is available in my country (Spain), so I´ll give it a try.
Thanks!
I have INPA but my laptop is too new to run it - it's on a USB cable and the disc that I got from a seller somewhere in the world (Germany i think) but sadly don't think it's going to work.
Wanted to run it on my E36 328i and see if my Vanos was running correctly and extinguish my airbag light (Now done at a garage!)
Wanted to run it on my E36 328i and see if my Vanos was running correctly and extinguish my airbag light (Now done at a garage!)
nosuchuser said:
This is the one I'm looking at, if you do find one more locally, please post a link here. Thanks
I sent an email to Cable Shack http://www.cable-shack.co.uk/index.php but Jimmy told me he only sells the interface, without the 20 pin ADS connector. If you want the ADS/serial cable with the connector included it seems you´ll have to buy the one from benemorious on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiny-ADS-Interface-with-di...Ta. I had an email convo with Jimmy earlier today - sorry, SebringMan, missed that contact point. The unit he sells is the tiny ads module as per the US eBay link, the only soldering required is the cable to pin in the 20 pin connector. Connections to the module are via screw down connectors. Shouldn't be too hard. I'm going to order the module from him, I have a spare 20 pin connector that I took apart today so I'll give it a go.
He's said it's funny, no one asks for ages about these then 3 enquiries this week
He's said it's funny, no one asks for ages about these then 3 enquiries this week
So today I meet a 325i owner with INPA installed in his laptop, and we plugged it to my car. We only had a bit of time to see if there was any error code (there wasn´t) and a very quick glance on some INPA screens. We didn´t know how to interpret INPA values, but a couple of things attracted my attention:
"Engine roughness" values: are they acceptable? Idling when engine was hot, after running for 30 minutes
Oxygen sensors voltages varied a lot (again, at idle)
I´m going to order the ADS/serial cable tomorrow and install INPA in my laptop to see things more carefully, but if somebody can indicate me something about this values, I´ll be grateful.
"Engine roughness" values: are they acceptable? Idling when engine was hot, after running for 30 minutes
Oxygen sensors voltages varied a lot (again, at idle)
I´m going to order the ADS/serial cable tomorrow and install INPA in my laptop to see things more carefully, but if somebody can indicate me something about this values, I´ll be grateful.
B234R said:
LanceRS said:
What fuel are you using? My old 328 was sensitive to the stuff, I ran it on Esso Super plus but when my wife used it and put Asda fuel in, it was awful. Very sluggish and unresponsive.
Try putting something called Cataclean through the fuel system too, seemed to clean it out nicely.
I´m using 95, I always go to a nearby Shell petrol station. A couple of months ago I filled the tank up with 98 V-Power, but I didn´t see any difference.Try putting something called Cataclean through the fuel system too, seemed to clean it out nicely.
I´ve just seen that Cataclean is available in my country (Spain), so I´ll give it a try.
Thanks!
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