Buying a cat d car
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Discussion

Badger71

Original Poster:

57 posts

119 months

Friday 7th July 2017
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After some advice. I think I know the answer already but always good to get confirmation...

I'm looking at buying a used rs4. Found a nice looking one at a good price, but it was a cat d write off that's been repaired.

I'm nervous about buying a cat d, mainly because I don't understand the maths... I understand a low value car being written off and repaired and being a good buy, but how can a £30-£40k car be written off as cat d if the damage wasn't fairly significant?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

144 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
Badger71 said:
I'm nervous about buying a cat d, mainly because I don't understand the maths... I understand a low value car being written off and repaired and being a good buy, but how can a £30-£40k car be written off as cat d if the damage wasn't fairly significant?
Maybe the insurance just agreed to replace with a new one if damage exceeded a certain %age of the value.
Maybe parts were on back order, and the hire car bill was ramping rapidly.
Maybe the salvage value was high enough that it didn't leave much headroom for repairs, before it was cheaper to write off.
Maybe the policyholder didn't want it back, and was very persuasive when the assessor came round.
Maybe the bodyshop fancied it as a side project, and were very persuasive when the assessor came round.

The question is how well it was repaired. Remember, if the assessor had decided to go ahead with the repairs, it wouldn't be flagged at all...

randlemarcus

13,635 posts

249 months

Friday 7th July 2017
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Medium damage, but ridiculously high like for like hire charges over an extended period would do it.

Badger71

Original Poster:

57 posts

119 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
Ok, so worth a look then, but perhaps a good idea to get an aa inspection or similar?

TheLuke

2,218 posts

159 months

Friday 7th July 2017
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On a bog standard hatch, I would take the risk with a Cat D.

On a performance saloon, no chance.


MajorMantra

1,595 posts

130 months

Friday 7th July 2017
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If there's clear documented evidence for why the car was Cat D (and it was repaired properly), I wouldn't let it put me off.

However, it will affect the resale value of the car, so factor that in when deciding how much you're willing to pay.

Badger71

Original Poster:

57 posts

119 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
I've asked for details of the damage and where it was repaired. I understand it will affect resale value, but that's offset by the price it's for sale at in my view

vsonix

3,858 posts

181 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
The most important thing to bear in mind when making these decisions: The older a car is, the more likely an insurer will write it off as Category C or D.
It's entirely based round the residual value of the car vs cost to repair. And, bear in mind insurers like to skew figures in their own favour, i.e. they base the value of the vehicle on the absolute lowest book value they can find, and calculate the cost of repair using expensive technicians with high hourly rates.

So, a fifteen year old M3 could end up as a write-off with nothing more than a dented wing and a cracked bumper, but one that is only five years old could end up in a nasty incident that sees every panel dented and a suspension arm bent and the car will be fixed and there will most probably be nothing whatsoever in the history to alert you to the fact that the incident ever occurred!

If one is buying a car for investment purposes then clearly one with 'clean' paperwork is more desirable, but by the same token if you're looking for as car to use daily and for your own enjoyment in the long term, then some of the best deals out there can be cat C or D.

Ultimately if the car was ever likely to be considered dangerous, there would be no way a C or D would be awarded, so theoretically one should be fairly confident that the vehicle passed muster after having been thoroughly inspected by an experienced professional. The main concern is, of course quality of the repairs where paint and bodywork are concerned.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

144 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
Badger71 said:
Ok, so worth a look then, but perhaps a good idea to get an aa inspection or similar?
Bugger the AA. I'd be going with a specialist.

Alucidnation

16,810 posts

188 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
Having the seats stolen was enough to write them off a few years ago, I think because they were no longer being made.

It wouldn't have made it a cat d though.

MissChief

7,631 posts

186 months

Friday 7th July 2017
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Wasn't there an issue with RS4 front seats getting stolen regularly and being horrendously expensive and only available as a multitude of parts? Something like £10k all in per seat or something stupid? Does it come with the original seats?

As said, if you plan to use it, and don't mind having trouble selling it, inevitably after months on the market at a considerably lower cost, then by all means go for it. If you're looking for something that won't lose much value and then sell it on later, buy one that's not been written off.

crosseyedlion

2,320 posts

216 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
vsonix said:
The most important thing to bear in mind when making these decisions: The older a car is, the more likely an insurer will write it off as Category C or D.
It's entirely based round the residual value of the car vs cost to repair. And, bear in mind insurers like to skew figures in their own favour, i.e. they base the value of the vehicle on the absolute lowest book value they can find, and calculate the cost of repair using expensive technicians with high hourly rates.

So, a fifteen year old M3 could end up as a write-off with nothing more than a dented wing and a cracked bumper, but one that is only five years old could end up in a nasty incident that sees every panel dented and a suspension arm bent and the car will be fixed and there will most probably be nothing whatsoever in the history to alert you to the fact that the incident ever occurred!

If one is buying a car for investment purposes then clearly one with 'clean' paperwork is more desirable, but by the same token if you're looking for as car to use daily and for your own enjoyment in the long term, then some of the best deals out there can be cat C or D.

Ultimately if the car was ever likely to be considered dangerous, there would be no way a C or D would be awarded, so theoretically one should be fairly confident that the vehicle passed muster after having been thoroughly inspected by an experienced professional. The main concern is, of course quality of the repairs where paint and bodywork are concerned.
Completely agree.

I'd want to understand the damage and inspect the quality of the repairs thoroughly though. I've bought a few CAT C/D's and they've been fine. In the same token, lots of cars with a clean history have had extensive repairs. Given the choice I'd actually consider a well repaired CAT C or D over a car with a clean history but double the miles. The standard of driving is appalling these days and its incredible how poor driving accelerates wear.

Related - Insurance write of categories are changing this year. I expect the values of CAT N cars to be higher than current ex-write offs and CAT S to be lower!

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...

vsonix

3,858 posts

181 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
Alucidnation said:
Having the seats stolen was enough to write them off a few years ago, I think because they were no longer being made.

It wouldn't have made it a cat d though.
What would it have been then? Cat B - dangerous to drive without seats?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

144 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
Alucidnation said:
Having the seats stolen was enough to write them off a few years ago, I think because they were no longer being made.

It wouldn't have made it a cat d though.
Yes, it would.

Damage below the value.

vsonix

3,858 posts

181 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
crosseyedlion said:
Completely agree.

I'd want to understand the damage and inspect the quality of the repairs thoroughly though. I've bought a few CAT C/D's and they've been fine. In the same token, lots of cars with a clean history have had extensive repairs. Given the choice I'd actually consider a well repaired CAT C or D over a car with a clean history but double the miles. The standard of driving is appalling these days and its incredible how poor driving accelerates wear.

Related - Insurance write of categories are changing this year. I expect the values of CAT N cars to be higher than current ex-write offs and CAT S to be lower!

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...
Ah, thanks for the link most informative.
I've bought a couple of Cat C cars and they've been actually amongst the better ones I've owned, apart from the first one where the repairer was a bit heavy handed with the clear coat. My current Cat C has massive lacquer peel instead, so swings & roundabouts!
I've now taken to buying pre-repair cat C cars and getting them fixed up by people I know and trust. That way the end results are impeccable biggrin

Badger71

Original Poster:

57 posts

119 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
I'm looking at. 2014 model,with 21000 miles for £31k. Seems like a decent deal, but I get that I need to know what the damage was.

What specialists would you recommend to inspect rather than Aa? I'm not aware of such companies...

InitialDave

13,815 posts

137 months

Friday 7th July 2017
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What would put me off is we not that long ago a coupel of threads of people having this sort of car stolen, and there being a litany of minor damage and abuse from it being ragged everywhere. Though on that front, it perhaps depends how long ago it was written off. If it's had 18 months and 12k of use since then without going pop, I'd have more confidence than if it had just been put back together last week.

Badger71 said:
Ok, so worth a look then, but perhaps a good idea to get an aa inspection or similar?
TooMany2cvs said:
Bugger the AA. I'd be going with a specialist.
That certainly is a specialist requirement, I'll give you that.

He's right, though, someone who really knows these cars is likely a better option. Afraid I don't have any suggestions. Do we have a fast Audi subforum? Might someone there know?


TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

144 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
Badger71 said:
What specialists would you recommend to inspect rather than Aa? I'm not aware of such companies...
An Audi RS specialist garage.

Burnzyb

300 posts

195 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
What area is it? MRC are properly poop hot on RS cars, based in Banbury, I'd also shadow other people's comments on finding out the damage, a car like an rs4 should really have pictures of the damage as it would of been silly not too for future resale, 30k is a lot of money to throw on a dog.

You just never know what your buying, there is an escos on eBay or autotrader iirc and it's had every panel replaced, even the roof has been cut and shut, most to a bad standard and that's a cat d or c car iirc, the same goes for a imola b5 rs4 that was originall cut up for widebody parts and then had wide body parts off a different car welded back on lol! You can just never tell what's gone on.

Probably a good idea to get on a specific Audi RS forum like 246 or srs and see if anyone has any back story to the car.

Alucidnation

16,810 posts

188 months

Friday 7th July 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Alucidnation said:
Having the seats stolen was enough to write them off a few years ago, I think because they were no longer being made.

It wouldn't have made it a cat d though.
Yes, it would.

Damage below the value.
Ah ok fair do's.