Paedos charter or a good thing?
Discussion
I'm unsure where this should have been submitted but I'm sure the mods will oblige.
I was intrigued by a recent news story and not surprised by the knee jerk reaction it provoked. It’s certainly a contentious issue but short-sightedness seems to prevail in the ‘ban it’ sector.
Now, I’m not a parent so I’m not qualified to comment. However, I decided to run a poll just to get a consensus. My apologies if this upsets anyone.
Apparently, ‘love’ dolls exist, which replicate youngsters, i.e. they’re paedo fodder. The ban brigade is up in arms and want them outlawed immediately.
It occurred to me that there could be an opportunity being missed here. A doll has no feelings, either physical or mental, whereas a paedo’s victim can easily wind up with a ruined life, with both physiological and psychological scars – the latter may never heal.
One argument runs like this. The dolls encourage paedos, which is why they should be banned. Given that paedos are likely to do what they do anyway, isn’t it better for a doll to be used rather than a real child or children?
I’m not for one moment suggesting that the dolls should be available on the NHS or anything. And going a little bit beyond the obvious face value element, products are sent to addresses and addresses (and names) are recorded.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the dolls' availability had the effect of reducing the number of paedo assaults.
I have no commercial or personal interest in either camp.
The question then is this...
Are these dolls a valuable substitute that will deter paedos? Yes or No
I was intrigued by a recent news story and not surprised by the knee jerk reaction it provoked. It’s certainly a contentious issue but short-sightedness seems to prevail in the ‘ban it’ sector.
Now, I’m not a parent so I’m not qualified to comment. However, I decided to run a poll just to get a consensus. My apologies if this upsets anyone.
Apparently, ‘love’ dolls exist, which replicate youngsters, i.e. they’re paedo fodder. The ban brigade is up in arms and want them outlawed immediately.
It occurred to me that there could be an opportunity being missed here. A doll has no feelings, either physical or mental, whereas a paedo’s victim can easily wind up with a ruined life, with both physiological and psychological scars – the latter may never heal.
One argument runs like this. The dolls encourage paedos, which is why they should be banned. Given that paedos are likely to do what they do anyway, isn’t it better for a doll to be used rather than a real child or children?
I’m not for one moment suggesting that the dolls should be available on the NHS or anything. And going a little bit beyond the obvious face value element, products are sent to addresses and addresses (and names) are recorded.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the dolls' availability had the effect of reducing the number of paedo assaults.
I have no commercial or personal interest in either camp.
The question then is this...
Are these dolls a valuable substitute that will deter paedos? Yes or No
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... - This thread remains one of the most thought provoking threads I've ever read on here, which I'm tediously linking to this thread.
I am a dad.
In answer to your question, I don't know.
I am a dad.
In answer to your question, I don't know.
I saw something similar for sale in a sex shop in Amsterdam a few months ago. Silicone mouldings of male and female groins, but obviously child size to be used for as you can imagine.
I'll admit my initial feeling was revulsion but as the owner of the shop said, if it stops someone offending by giving them an outlet, surely it's a good thing.
He didn't change my mind at the time but in hindsight I think he was right and I was wrong.
I'll admit my initial feeling was revulsion but as the owner of the shop said, if it stops someone offending by giving them an outlet, surely it's a good thing.
He didn't change my mind at the time but in hindsight I think he was right and I was wrong.
Not sure about the dolls either, i am sure for some people it would satisfy the urge, just as for some people,looking at kiddy porn would be enough.
For others though, both the dolls and the porn would be a stepping stone to abuse of a child.
i just skimmed through that thread too, i had forgotten about it, But is it broken? On my browser there is a link to the final page (16, is that ironic?) but all you get is 'nothing to see here' but it dosnt say it was closed.
For others though, both the dolls and the porn would be a stepping stone to abuse of a child.
i just skimmed through that thread too, i had forgotten about it, But is it broken? On my browser there is a link to the final page (16, is that ironic?) but all you get is 'nothing to see here' but it dosnt say it was closed.
I saw a documentary about a chap, who admitted he was turned on by children, but he also recognised that society doesn't allow him to fulfil his desires. So he went to a lot of effort to ensure he couldn't have relations with children.
So perhaps something like this could help, am not sure how sexual attraction works, I guess I am lucky in that I am sexually attracted to slim blonde adult females with small boobs.
So perhaps something like this could help, am not sure how sexual attraction works, I guess I am lucky in that I am sexually attracted to slim blonde adult females with small boobs.
Vandenberg said:
I saw a documentary about a chap, who admitted he was turned on by children, but he also recognised that society doesn't allow him to fulfil his desires. So he went to a lot of effort to ensure he couldn't have relations with children.
So perhaps something like this could help, am not sure how sexual attraction works, I guess I am lucky in that I am sexually attracted to slim blonde adult females with small boobs.
Yeah, think that was a channel 4 documentary. The one where he sent a letter to his mum trying to explain etc...and then going to Germany for treatment?So perhaps something like this could help, am not sure how sexual attraction works, I guess I am lucky in that I am sexually attracted to slim blonde adult females with small boobs.
The interesting thing I took from that programme was a comment he made that if you went to your doctor and said you felt like murdering someone they would treat you for it, but there would be no treatment if you said you were sexually attracted to children.
It's a very thought provoking question.
Some things do work, and somethings are definitely not helpful. For example there are charities who work in this field (stop it now IIRC?) who offer a lifeline to such people, which is helpful, yet some things aren't, like the red tops proposing naming and shaming, which would just lead to mob rule.
This one is a real grey one though, and I can't decide. As mentioned by someone, could it be a stepping stone? An argument could be that someone playing Grand Theft Auto doesn't go on to commit drive by shootings, or pimp out lasses. On the flipside my e-cig (yeah, I know, council... !) fulfills my crave, and keeps me from having the 'real' thing.
There is a but though, and it's a big but, could they shape what turns some on?
Would someone with lust for the pre-pubescent form be fulfilled by such a thing? Or is it actually the power over someone weak which is maybe their kick?
Regardless of if they're a 'good' thing for the cause or not, it's a little unlikely that our press, bless them, would allow such a thing to be considered anything but abhorrent.
Some things do work, and somethings are definitely not helpful. For example there are charities who work in this field (stop it now IIRC?) who offer a lifeline to such people, which is helpful, yet some things aren't, like the red tops proposing naming and shaming, which would just lead to mob rule.
This one is a real grey one though, and I can't decide. As mentioned by someone, could it be a stepping stone? An argument could be that someone playing Grand Theft Auto doesn't go on to commit drive by shootings, or pimp out lasses. On the flipside my e-cig (yeah, I know, council... !) fulfills my crave, and keeps me from having the 'real' thing.
There is a but though, and it's a big but, could they shape what turns some on?
Would someone with lust for the pre-pubescent form be fulfilled by such a thing? Or is it actually the power over someone weak which is maybe their kick?
Regardless of if they're a 'good' thing for the cause or not, it's a little unlikely that our press, bless them, would allow such a thing to be considered anything but abhorrent.
Fermit The Krog said:
There is a but though, and it's a big but, could they shape what turns some on?
I seriously doubt that would be the case, i have never seen a sex doll that has made me suddenly realise i am attracted to Adult women, for example.Surely You wouldnt just go out and buy a child like sex doll to find out if that turns you on, the attraction would need to be there in the first place?
But, that doesnt mean a pedo would buy one of these and never look at a real child again, anymore that anyone else would by a 'real doll' and completely lose interest in actual women, but from some documentaries i have seen, some men do exactly that!
I think the point raised above about how do those with such urges seek help, because there seems to be no available help for them. Is that something we should be addressing? I'd say yes. I also think it should carry no stigma as would any other severe mental health issue.
The minute they cross the line however I think the penalties should be harsh and most certainly imposed for life. If that means a whole of life order for the worst offenders, so be it.
I can honestly say if I had those urges whilst living in the society we do at the moment, I would find away to kill myself in a way that looked like an accident.
Actually I wonder how many have done just that over the years?
The minute they cross the line however I think the penalties should be harsh and most certainly imposed for life. If that means a whole of life order for the worst offenders, so be it.
I can honestly say if I had those urges whilst living in the society we do at the moment, I would find away to kill myself in a way that looked like an accident.
Actually I wonder how many have done just that over the years?
Shuvi McTupya said:
Not sure about the dolls either, i am sure for some people it would satisfy the urge, just as for some people,looking at kiddy porn would be enough.
For others though, both the dolls and the porn would be a stepping stone to abuse of a child.
I agree, I think it would depend entirely on the person. For others though, both the dolls and the porn would be a stepping stone to abuse of a child.
I don't know what percentage of people that are attracted to children actually go and abuse children, but I bet it's low. It's a huge step moving from fantasy to reality.
I imagine there will be other factors at play for the person to do what is viewed in society as about the worst thing there is, possibly seen as worse than murder.
It must be an awful thing to live with really. One of the few issues that seeking help or speaking about isn't much of an option.
Shuvi McTupya said:
Fermit The Krog said:
There is a but though, and it's a big but, could they shape what turns some on?
I seriously doubt that would be the case, i have never seen a sex doll that has made me suddenly realise i am attracted to Adult women, for example.Surely You wouldnt just go out and buy a child like sex doll to find out if that turns you on, the attraction would need to be there in the first place?
But, that doesnt mean a pedo would buy one of these and never look at a real child again, anymore that anyone else would by a 'real doll' and completely lose interest in actual women, but from some documentaries i have seen, some men do exactly that!
Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Saturday 8th July 17:20
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
Valid points, just call it my gut feeling. Thinking along the lines that sometimes exposure can sometimes produce desire. IE someone seeing a certain amount of a certain kink in porn realising that it actually turns them on? Said doll allows them to explore that urge, even if mild, which then leads to it becoming consuming?
Man, its quite a mine field..you are quite correct!Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Saturday 8th July 17:20
If it were not for porn, i would never have seen certain fetishes like tie and tease or bondage type stuff but having seen it, Some of it is now appealing.
If i had just heard gossip about it, restraints/whips/chains whatever, i wouldnt think that was in any way a sexual thing..
So yeah it could easily work both ways..
I think they should be legal, it's a lump of inanimate silicone and mechatronics not a person. Surely the laws against sexual activity involving children and child pornography are there to protect children, dolls don't need protecting. I can't see how they would lead anyone into child abuse, if anything I imagine it would reduce such crimes as it would be an outlet for their desires that doesn't harm anybody. Sadly the relentless race to prove that we are more PC than everyone else will no doubt win and common sense will fall by the wayside.
Frankly if you want a sex robot in the shape of a unicorn or the three boobed alien from star wars I can't see the problem.
Frankly if you want a sex robot in the shape of a unicorn or the three boobed alien from star wars I can't see the problem.
There many strange practices that are carried out in the cause of sexual gratification. Most are harmless fantasy but some are lethal. such as autoerotic asphyxiation. I expect there are just as many ways of simulating paraphilia.
The dolls thing is a case in point though. I feel it's a good way of diverting people away from committing an awful, damaging crime. A ban wouldn't divert so much as encourage and that's ridiculous.
For example I've used guns of various sorts for decades. My mum made a deal with me when I wanted my first air rifle at age 7. "You can have one provided you never shoot anything alive" , she said. Fifty five years on, I've kept to the deal, even though mum passed 7 years ago.
It's never been a forbidden fruit thing for me, I simply didn't want to take out a rabbit or sparrow. To me, clays aren't pigeons, they're moving targets. The reward is in seeing them explode into shards = great shot.
I suspect the paedophile and adult doll things have a lot to do with control and dreaded consequences. An adult doll can't 'take its love to town' or cry 'rohypnol' or 'rape' any more than a minor doll could call childline.
There are men who 'live with' a doll, dress them up and talk to them. Perhaps the man is badly deformed, has terminal BO or is simply unlucky in love. Get a doll, fair enough, everybody wins.
I'd need a doll that could be programmed to constantly criticise, drink too much and disappoint regularly. It'd need two 'offspring' dolls too, for me to never criticise and to put me fourth in line. The win situation is that a doll couldn't litigate for half my stuff - again.
This is many a true word in jest but to answer my own question, it's a 'yes'. It's just a pity the poll permission I ticked didn't work.
The dolls thing is a case in point though. I feel it's a good way of diverting people away from committing an awful, damaging crime. A ban wouldn't divert so much as encourage and that's ridiculous.
For example I've used guns of various sorts for decades. My mum made a deal with me when I wanted my first air rifle at age 7. "You can have one provided you never shoot anything alive" , she said. Fifty five years on, I've kept to the deal, even though mum passed 7 years ago.
It's never been a forbidden fruit thing for me, I simply didn't want to take out a rabbit or sparrow. To me, clays aren't pigeons, they're moving targets. The reward is in seeing them explode into shards = great shot.
I suspect the paedophile and adult doll things have a lot to do with control and dreaded consequences. An adult doll can't 'take its love to town' or cry 'rohypnol' or 'rape' any more than a minor doll could call childline.
There are men who 'live with' a doll, dress them up and talk to them. Perhaps the man is badly deformed, has terminal BO or is simply unlucky in love. Get a doll, fair enough, everybody wins.
I'd need a doll that could be programmed to constantly criticise, drink too much and disappoint regularly. It'd need two 'offspring' dolls too, for me to never criticise and to put me fourth in line. The win situation is that a doll couldn't litigate for half my stuff - again.
This is many a true word in jest but to answer my own question, it's a 'yes'. It's just a pity the poll permission I ticked didn't work.
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