£17k to spend on a fun car. But it has to do deep winters.
Discussion
Hiya,
I'm a Brit living in Sweden. I have an approx. £17,000 budget to buy a used, fun, daily driver. Trip to work = 40 min (20 min motorway + 30 min twisteys or 40 min on motorway only - can choose). But here's the kicker: It's gotta be useable in the cold (down to -20 oC sometimes) and snow. Snow here lasts about 3 months/year. I'd like to think that doesn't rule out rear-wheel drive if I get good winter tyres. But in reality... I'm not so sure.
That said, here's my shortlist, in the order of _current_ preference with some comments/doubts attached. But what I'm here to ask is: should I consider something else? And how much of a headache would it be to buy a rear-wheel drive car for those snowy and cold conditions?
Shortlist:
1. Renault Megane RS 265
Advantages: FWD, one of the best hot-hatches, more practical than a more "coupey" coupe.
Doubts: Harsh ride for 80 min+ driving/day?
2. Nissan 370Z
Advantages: Love the styling, love the power.
Doubts: How will it do in snow at -20 oC, even on good winter tyres? Harsh ride? Noisy cabin?
3. Ford Focus ST
Advantages: FWD, more refined than the above, more practical than a coupe.
Doubts: Not as powerful or fun to drive as the above, heard lots about low build quality.
4. Toyota GT86
Advantages: Great fun, good looks, more practical than 370Z.
Doubts: Down on power, and still RWD in the snow. If I go RWD, why this over the 370Z?
___
One piece of recurring advice is: buy the car you want, get good winter tyres and forget about it. Is that enough for me to think about when it comes to winter weather?
One thing I'm not sure is how much cold the RWD cars above can take. Are Japanese RWD cars able to take temperatures that cold? I see few people (although they do exist) driving them in the winter, though not necessarily -20 oC. Do they freeze up, break and bits fall off, or will it be ok? No garage on the parking lot at work.
Which would you buy?
Are there cars you think I should consider that aren't on the list?
Here are some I've ruled out:
BMW Z3 or Z4, Ford Focus RS (too expensive, here at least), Vauxhall Insignia GTC, anything Audi (very pricey garages here), Mitsubishi Evo (either too pricey here, or modded beyond redemption, or driven in to the ground, or all three), Subaru WRX STI (newer ones too pricey, older ones driven to death). It is a smaller market here.
I'm a Brit living in Sweden. I have an approx. £17,000 budget to buy a used, fun, daily driver. Trip to work = 40 min (20 min motorway + 30 min twisteys or 40 min on motorway only - can choose). But here's the kicker: It's gotta be useable in the cold (down to -20 oC sometimes) and snow. Snow here lasts about 3 months/year. I'd like to think that doesn't rule out rear-wheel drive if I get good winter tyres. But in reality... I'm not so sure.
That said, here's my shortlist, in the order of _current_ preference with some comments/doubts attached. But what I'm here to ask is: should I consider something else? And how much of a headache would it be to buy a rear-wheel drive car for those snowy and cold conditions?
Shortlist:
1. Renault Megane RS 265
Advantages: FWD, one of the best hot-hatches, more practical than a more "coupey" coupe.
Doubts: Harsh ride for 80 min+ driving/day?
2. Nissan 370Z
Advantages: Love the styling, love the power.
Doubts: How will it do in snow at -20 oC, even on good winter tyres? Harsh ride? Noisy cabin?
3. Ford Focus ST
Advantages: FWD, more refined than the above, more practical than a coupe.
Doubts: Not as powerful or fun to drive as the above, heard lots about low build quality.
4. Toyota GT86
Advantages: Great fun, good looks, more practical than 370Z.
Doubts: Down on power, and still RWD in the snow. If I go RWD, why this over the 370Z?
___
One piece of recurring advice is: buy the car you want, get good winter tyres and forget about it. Is that enough for me to think about when it comes to winter weather?
One thing I'm not sure is how much cold the RWD cars above can take. Are Japanese RWD cars able to take temperatures that cold? I see few people (although they do exist) driving them in the winter, though not necessarily -20 oC. Do they freeze up, break and bits fall off, or will it be ok? No garage on the parking lot at work.
Which would you buy?
Are there cars you think I should consider that aren't on the list?
Here are some I've ruled out:
BMW Z3 or Z4, Ford Focus RS (too expensive, here at least), Vauxhall Insignia GTC, anything Audi (very pricey garages here), Mitsubishi Evo (either too pricey here, or modded beyond redemption, or driven in to the ground, or all three), Subaru WRX STI (newer ones too pricey, older ones driven to death). It is a smaller market here.
Edited by GonnaGetPiston on Monday 10th July 19:42
Edited by GonnaGetPiston on Monday 10th July 19:52
Edited by GonnaGetPiston on Monday 10th July 21:52
GonnaGetPiston said:
1. Renault Megane RS 265
Advantages: FWD, one of the best hot-hatches, more practical than a more "coupey" coupe.
Doubts: Harsh ride for 80 min+ driving/day?
Not harsh really, more firm but generally compliant. The longer wheel base and dampening make it less harsh than the Clio. Advantages: FWD, one of the best hot-hatches, more practical than a more "coupey" coupe.
Doubts: Harsh ride for 80 min+ driving/day?
GrumpyTwig said:
Not harsh really, more firm but generally compliant. The longer wheel base and dampening make it less harsh than the Clio.
Is that also true of the Cup chassis?I was generally thinking of the Cup, but would consider the standard setup if that would be unbearable for daily driver.
Well the GT86 can be used - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKBdOE2z4O4
But as you say the rules are drive what you want then add the appropriate tyres...
The issue with any sports/sporty car in snow - is ground clearance - and you wont get much of it in any of them, especially one with a flash ground hugging bodykit - it will turn into a snowplough before it gets destroyed....
S.
But as you say the rules are drive what you want then add the appropriate tyres...
The issue with any sports/sporty car in snow - is ground clearance - and you wont get much of it in any of them, especially one with a flash ground hugging bodykit - it will turn into a snowplough before it gets destroyed....
S.
GonnaGetPiston said:
Is that also true of the Cup chassis?
I was generally thinking of the Cup, but would consider the standard setup if that would be unbearable for daily driver.
I was generally thinking of the Cup, but would consider the standard setup if that would be unbearable for daily driver.
You also get the benefit of the LSD with the Cup chassis which will be a great help in the winter the Cup chassis is firm but not overly harsh like a Type R Civic.
I'd say go for the Megane or go for a Subaru WRX/STI
Douglas Quaid said:
Porsche Cayenne? Should do well in the snow.
Agreed, and I hear good things about how it handles. Great practicality too but... no manual version (at least here, that I can see) and I really don't want an automatic gearbox. This is one of the few chances I'll get to buy a real driver's car, so I'd feel like I'd be cheating myself if I went for an automatic. Also very high costs to maintain (Porsche = expensive, Sweden = expensive).tyres are everything. great fun being in a rwd bmw overtaking brits in 4wd in the alps on summer tyres.
but do you need ground clearance too or are the roads always cleared in time?
GT86, plenty power for some winter fun. You might have to drive very carefully with big torque stuff like the 370 though.
but do you need ground clearance too or are the roads always cleared in time?
GT86, plenty power for some winter fun. You might have to drive very carefully with big torque stuff like the 370 though.
CABC said:
tyres are everything. great fun being in a rwd bmw overtaking brits in 4wd in the alps on summer tyres.
but do you need ground clearance too or are the roads always cleared in time?
GT86, plenty power for some winter fun. You might have to drive very carefully with big torque stuff like the 370 though.
Roads are cleared promptly. But if I park on the street near work, for example, there is a risk that little hills of snow can build up front and back. Could deal with those with a shovel (if it fit in the back, of course - thinking of the 370 there).but do you need ground clearance too or are the roads always cleared in time?
GT86, plenty power for some winter fun. You might have to drive very carefully with big torque stuff like the 370 though.
Agree about the tyres.
So you think the 370 would be tricky to drive, even on good winter tyres?
Also, would you recommend, overall, 370Z over the 265 RS? Online direct comparisons seem very evently split as to which is the better "driver's car".
GonnaGetPiston said:
Roads are cleared promptly. But if I park on the street near work, for example, there is a risk that little hills of snow can build up front and back. Could deal with those with a shovel (if it fit in the back, of course - thinking of the 370 there).
Agree about the tyres.
So you think the 370 would be tricky to drive, even on good winter tyres?
Also, would you recommend, overall, 370Z over the 265 RS? Online direct comparisons seem very evently split as to which is the better "driver's car".
you get different personal opinions on this.Agree about the tyres.
So you think the 370 would be tricky to drive, even on good winter tyres?
Also, would you recommend, overall, 370Z over the 265 RS? Online direct comparisons seem very evently split as to which is the better "driver's car".
i'm a big rwd fan, and i prefer chassis to power. however, i'd go RS.
given that you're in deep winter part of the year and that the 370 puts a lot of torque through those wide rears, it would need more care.
I've always wanted to like the zed, but for me it's never been enough of a sports car. it feels heavy, plus it's quite noisy for a GT.
Renault have some great fwd, so *if* that's your choice, then RS.
why not 86?
Clearly the default PH answer is perfect for this: Mazda MX5.
- RWD fun
- not too much power to kill yourself in winter but enough to enjoy wringing it out at sensible speeds in summer (ref: Sweden's 'Vision Zero' and undoubtedly stupid speed limits and enforcement)
- lightweight
- good ground clearance
- roof down in snow = an experience to be enjoyed regularly
- good range of options for modifying to your taste, including LSDs
- RWD fun
- not too much power to kill yourself in winter but enough to enjoy wringing it out at sensible speeds in summer (ref: Sweden's 'Vision Zero' and undoubtedly stupid speed limits and enforcement)
- lightweight
- good ground clearance
- roof down in snow = an experience to be enjoyed regularly
- good range of options for modifying to your taste, including LSDs
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Monday 10th July 22:38
DoubleD said:
Have you spoken to the locals to see what they drive? Their opinion would be worth listening to.
RWD certainly isn't that scarce in Scandinavia... Plenty of E-class taxis, plenty of BMWs and Mercs of all shapes and sizes. It's all down to tyres - not only proper winters, but studs are acceptable.eldar said:
What do the locals drive? They are better placed than us, who go catatonic at the sight of a snowflake.
Sometimes it seems like 98% of the locals drive Volvo V70s.More seriously, though, the Swedes don't seem to be that enamoured with fun cars. The most popular hot hatches are Golf GTs and, occassionally, R.
There is some kind of a fad here for restoring American classic cars, but you only see them in the summer. Those who can afford it drive a more fun car in the summer (e.g. a BMW Z4 or Mazda Miata) and a more practical one in the winter. But that somewhere to store the car you're not using, particularly the summer one if you don't want to expose it to the cold. I can't afford all that. It's one car for me and it has to tolerate the cold.
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