Losing contact with your children
Discussion
My ex did a brilliant job of keeping my two daughters away from me over the past 15 years. One is 20 now and I do see her from time to time but she is busy with her own life and quite independent but the other is much more introverted and has completely fallen into the 'Dad is nasty because he makes life hard from my mum' mindset. I should I point out and I don't and I've been way more helpful and accommodating to her due to trying to keep a relationship going with my kids but she doesn't see it that way.
A couple of days ago I got a s
tty text from my younger daughter saying she doesn't want to see me again and neither does my other daughter (who mostly tries to keep well out of it). All on the basis of the CSA telling her mum they aren't going to get (even) more money out of me. I am not responsible for her finances and if she has messed them up its her fault. to date they have had getting on for £200k from me!
After dealing with this st for years I wonder how much longer I should bother trying to keep a relationship going with my youngest. She'll always take my ex's side and see me as the bad person.
Honestly, its all just getting a bit much...
A couple of days ago I got a s
tty text from my younger daughter saying she doesn't want to see me again and neither does my other daughter (who mostly tries to keep well out of it). All on the basis of the CSA telling her mum they aren't going to get (even) more money out of me. I am not responsible for her finances and if she has messed them up its her fault. to date they have had getting on for £200k from me!After dealing with this s
t for years I wonder how much longer I should bother trying to keep a relationship going with my youngest. She'll always take my ex's side and see me as the bad person. Honestly, its all just getting a bit much...
Always, always keep your door open. Remember she's a child, so literally everything is confusing for her. She's easily led and swayed and you have no control over that.
Heartbreaking as it is, I would just stick to the moral high ground. Don't lash out, don't blame Mum, just say you're sorry she feels like that, you don't see yourself as a villain and that your door will always be open for her, whenever she needs it to be. Basically, be a parent, but without being there in person. She may not thank you tomorrow, or even in the next few years, but she's got about another 30-50 years with you to go. Best not screw that up because she is being, quite literally, a stroppy teenager.
Heartbreaking as it is, I would just stick to the moral high ground. Don't lash out, don't blame Mum, just say you're sorry she feels like that, you don't see yourself as a villain and that your door will always be open for her, whenever she needs it to be. Basically, be a parent, but without being there in person. She may not thank you tomorrow, or even in the next few years, but she's got about another 30-50 years with you to go. Best not screw that up because she is being, quite literally, a stroppy teenager.
Damn near identical position. I get zero contact, of any kind. My entire side of the family treated the same...and she is their only grand daughter/niece etc...
Regular texts from me, consistent message of love and support, nothing negative.
but hope hangs by a thread.
It's sad but finding out or knowing you're not alone in this circumstance doesn't count for st really does it. It's a sadness that sits at the core of you and can take you down at a moments notice.
My one massive fear is that my parents will die without ever having had the chance to see/speak with her....
It's ok though, there is a free organisation to make sure the resident parent gets their coin.
If only there was a free organisation to make sure the child wasn't (mentally) abused.
Good luck to you
Regular texts from me, consistent message of love and support, nothing negative.
but hope hangs by a thread.
It's sad but finding out or knowing you're not alone in this circumstance doesn't count for s
t really does it. It's a sadness that sits at the core of you and can take you down at a moments notice.My one massive fear is that my parents will die without ever having had the chance to see/speak with her....
It's ok though, there is a free organisation to make sure the resident parent gets their coin.
If only there was a free organisation to make sure the child wasn't (mentally) abused.
Good luck to you
Undirection said:
My ex did a brilliant job of keeping my two daughters away from me over the past 15 years. One is 20 now and I do see her from time to time but she is busy with her own life and quite independent but the other is much more introverted and has completely fallen into the 'Dad is nasty because he makes life hard from my mum' mindset. I should I point out and I don't and I've been way more helpful and accommodating to her due to trying to keep a relationship going with my kids but she doesn't see it that way.
A couple of days ago I got a stty text from my younger daughter saying she doesn't want to see me again and neither does my other daughter (who mostly tries to keep well out of it). All on the basis of the CSA telling her mum they aren't going to get (even) more money out of me. I am not responsible for her finances and if she has messed them up its her fault. to date they have had getting on for £200k from me!
After dealing with this st for years I wonder how much longer I should bother trying to keep a relationship going with my youngest. She'll always take my ex's side and see me as the bad person.
Honestly, its all just getting a bit much...
This is what I dread, I have no contact with my children due to my ex (contact orders aren't worth the paper they're written on and for the sake of my sanity it's the best option that I cut her out of my life, unfortunately that then includes my children)A couple of days ago I got a s
tty text from my younger daughter saying she doesn't want to see me again and neither does my other daughter (who mostly tries to keep well out of it). All on the basis of the CSA telling her mum they aren't going to get (even) more money out of me. I am not responsible for her finances and if she has messed them up its her fault. to date they have had getting on for £200k from me!After dealing with this s
t for years I wonder how much longer I should bother trying to keep a relationship going with my youngest. She'll always take my ex's side and see me as the bad person. Honestly, its all just getting a bit much...
I've no idea how they will view me in the future, I pay the monthly support and send birthday/Xmas gifts but I probably won't have any contact with them until they're adults (10-15 years), thankfully my own life is in a good position and I've found someone that I'm happy to spend the rest of my life with but my kids do pop into my head on an almost daily basis.
The only thing I can suggest is get on with your life, make it clear you'll be there if they need help (but not only as the bank of dad)
They're adults and they can make their own decisions, they may come to their senses or they may not.
There is a chance they may never want to speak to you but you can't force a person into your life no matter how much you love them
I hope things do pan out well for you.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Is the cessation of child maintenance because of the child's age or the CSA closing down?
Probably the child's age, the CSA has closed but been replaced by the CMSIf anything she would get more money under the CMS as they've changed how they calculate the payments, mine went up by an additional £115 per month.
A few years ago I left my sons mother because she couldn't keep her knickers on, my son is severely physically disabled but not mentally, I kept in contact with him on a daily basis, visited and played online games via the xbox and we texted each other all day.
I got in to another relationship and all was well until she fell pregnant and my daughter was born, then his mother would say he doesn't want to see your perfect daughter and he would say the same thing, his mother would say you left us to have a perfect child and he would say the same thing, the texts started dropping off and finally when I went to visit his mum said he didn't want to see me. I texted him to see what the problem was and he said sorry but he was blocking me and didn't want to see me again.
He's 18 in February and I've not spoken to him for at least 3 years and I'm not sure I ever will, I still send him texts but I'm not even sure he gets them.
I've learnt to wait, hopefully he'll come around but there's not a lot I can do, his mother got in to his ear which she will have to make her peace with it as we don't know how long he'll live but hopefully he'll get back in touch long before anything happens.
I got in to another relationship and all was well until she fell pregnant and my daughter was born, then his mother would say he doesn't want to see your perfect daughter and he would say the same thing, his mother would say you left us to have a perfect child and he would say the same thing, the texts started dropping off and finally when I went to visit his mum said he didn't want to see me. I texted him to see what the problem was and he said sorry but he was blocking me and didn't want to see me again.
He's 18 in February and I've not spoken to him for at least 3 years and I'm not sure I ever will, I still send him texts but I'm not even sure he gets them.
I've learnt to wait, hopefully he'll come around but there's not a lot I can do, his mother got in to his ear which she will have to make her peace with it as we don't know how long he'll live but hopefully he'll get back in touch long before anything happens.
My brother had something similar to this. He and our parents were being kept away from the kids, moved a long way away, contact was filtered even to the extent that birthday and Christmas presents were being thrown away before the kids knew anything about their existence. Net result, the kids didn't even know that contact was happening and finances were in place.
Then one day they found out, and the whole picture changed.
My guess is it is probably time you revisited the history with your kids, and have an honest discussion around how it could have been better from both sides.
Good luck with it, I don think it is over yet.
Then one day they found out, and the whole picture changed.
My guess is it is probably time you revisited the history with your kids, and have an honest discussion around how it could have been better from both sides.
Good luck with it, I don think it is over yet.
It's child abuse pure and simple. Regardless of the gender of the resident parent, when such nasty poisonous tendencies allow 'them' to sow a seed that makes a child feel that their other parent doesn't care... utterly disgusting.
It's like "Inception" in these cases though, if the child is got at, at a young enough age, they feel that they have come up with this view on their own.
So by all means take it to court, but when the child is asked what they want and they have a rock solid belief that you're a st.... it immediately becomes an expensive soul destroying pointless discussion.
And as it involves devious horrible adults (who at one time you believed to be the centre of your universe?!) and impressionable innocent children it practically impossible to resolve/prove or prosecute. It's a massively ignored stain on our culture.
The fight is, as said above, to not forget, but forgive and concentrate on building your own life back up again and not let that singular abhorrent act ruin your and any other relatives' lives...
It's like "Inception" in these cases though, if the child is got at, at a young enough age, they feel that they have come up with this view on their own.
So by all means take it to court, but when the child is asked what they want and they have a rock solid belief that you're a s
t.... it immediately becomes an expensive soul destroying pointless discussion.And as it involves devious horrible adults (who at one time you believed to be the centre of your universe?!) and impressionable innocent children it practically impossible to resolve/prove or prosecute. It's a massively ignored stain on our culture.
The fight is, as said above, to not forget, but forgive and concentrate on building your own life back up again and not let that singular abhorrent act ruin your and any other relatives' lives...
SeeFive said:
My brother had something similar to this. He and our parents were being kept away from the kids, moved a long way away, contact was filtered even to the extent that birthday and Christmas presents were being thrown away before the kids knew anything about their existence. Net result, the kids didn't even know that contact was happening and finances were in place.
Then one day they found out, and the whole picture changed.
My guess is it is probably time you revisited the history with your kids, and have an honest discussion around how it could have been better from both sides.
Good luck with it, I don think it is over yet.
Ouch. OP - Maybe keep a scrapbook/album of everything you send over, cards, pressies etc. At least in years tom come you can show what was sent, which may help paint the other side of the picture and also give a now adult a better view of what information was given, what was withheld, etc. Of course, this may serve to disrupt the daughter/mother relationship in the future, so there's that consideration too though if your gifts etc are being filtered, that's on her head in my view.Then one day they found out, and the whole picture changed.
My guess is it is probably time you revisited the history with your kids, and have an honest discussion around how it could have been better from both sides.
Good luck with it, I don think it is over yet.
Good luck whatever, and as ever, PH proves no one is really alone with their issues. PH. Virtual Hugs Matter.
Never give up trying OP.
As they get more independent they'll be able to form their own judgements about how caring you are, based on their own experience rather than what their mum's been telling them for years. So now isn't the time to disappear. At least it sounds as if you might have a faint glimmer of a relationship with the older one, so work on that. One day they won't be living under the same roof as their mum and you may have an opportunity to see one or both of them without them feeling (possibly) that they're betraying their mum by being in contact with you.
At least if you can maintain contact with the older one, sooner or later the other one might learn that you're not the monster you've been made out to be. There will also be friends, boyfriends etc having an influence on them as time goes on, and that could work in your favour too.
As they get more independent they'll be able to form their own judgements about how caring you are, based on their own experience rather than what their mum's been telling them for years. So now isn't the time to disappear. At least it sounds as if you might have a faint glimmer of a relationship with the older one, so work on that. One day they won't be living under the same roof as their mum and you may have an opportunity to see one or both of them without them feeling (possibly) that they're betraying their mum by being in contact with you.
At least if you can maintain contact with the older one, sooner or later the other one might learn that you're not the monster you've been made out to be. There will also be friends, boyfriends etc having an influence on them as time goes on, and that could work in your favour too.
Sorry, OP....
My parent split when I was about 4. I'm now 47. I detest my stepmum who's been with my Dad since I was 6, and my Dad's become a bitter and very twisted retiree. I've not had any contact with him for 18 months now, and it's not the first time that we've lost touch.I've always been closer to Mum as she had custody and I lived with her until I left home at 17, but she's a much more caring and open person than my Dad.
I'm sure that's not your situation, OP, so please do keep the door open to your children.
My parent split when I was about 4. I'm now 47. I detest my stepmum who's been with my Dad since I was 6, and my Dad's become a bitter and very twisted retiree. I've not had any contact with him for 18 months now, and it's not the first time that we've lost touch.I've always been closer to Mum as she had custody and I lived with her until I left home at 17, but she's a much more caring and open person than my Dad.
I'm sure that's not your situation, OP, so please do keep the door open to your children.
Hopefully they will come around in time OP...you sound like a decent bloke, and in their own time hopefully they can view you as adults and make up their own mind.
It's a subject that hits quite close to home for me. My gf has been estranged from her father for about 10 years now, he cheated on her mother, then got abusive in the time that followed and threatened my gf with a loaded .45, she genuinely thought he was going to kill her.
He eventually left and she doesn't even know where he lives, she's safely tucked away living here in the UK now, as far as she's aware he doesn't know or care about her current whereabouts.
It's a subject that hits quite close to home for me. My gf has been estranged from her father for about 10 years now, he cheated on her mother, then got abusive in the time that followed and threatened my gf with a loaded .45, she genuinely thought he was going to kill her.
He eventually left and she doesn't even know where he lives, she's safely tucked away living here in the UK now, as far as she's aware he doesn't know or care about her current whereabouts.
I'm lucky that the oldest one has taken the view that its between us and I'm not the bad guy but she is fiercely defensive of her mother predictably so I always feel like I have to be careful what I say around her but her sister is the total apposite.
Coming from a 'normal' family I never saw any of this coming, never imagined I'd never bring up my children and teach them all the values my parents instilled in me. Instead they got the values and mindset of her mother. Of course, I can't tel them that.
I guess at this point I am seriously contemplating not seeing my youngest ever again and that;s about as bad as it gets for me...
Coming from a 'normal' family I never saw any of this coming, never imagined I'd never bring up my children and teach them all the values my parents instilled in me. Instead they got the
values and mindset of her mother. Of course, I can't tel them that.I guess at this point I am seriously contemplating not seeing my youngest ever again and that;s about as bad as it gets for me...
What a genuinely heart breaking thread ... I have 2.5yr old and simply cannot imagine what it must be like to be in the situations above
I hope to god it never results in that for me (quite selfishly clearly) ... I thought if you had visiting orders etc... these were enforceable - clearly not so and def not so when the tainted will of a turbulent minor is added in
I hope to god it never results in that for me (quite selfishly clearly) ... I thought if you had visiting orders etc... these were enforceable - clearly not so and def not so when the tainted will of a turbulent minor is added in
alorotom said:
I thought if you had visiting orders etc... these were enforceable - clearly not so and def not so when the tainted will of a turbulent minor is added in
You can have all the orders you like but if the resident parent poisons the child against you and they then don't want to see you there's nothing you can do. Many of these type of parents see the children as theirs and not yours too and the last thing they want is to let you have time with them. It's wrong but so common.Unfortunately in a lot of cases the resident parent uses the children as some sort of bargaining tool in the financial arrangement, where they should be kept completely separate.
OP, try not to lose all contact with the younger one. She must have been only a toddler when you split up, so is naturally closer to her mother and has then only had her mother's influence until now.
I'm guessing she's 18 or so. At this age, girls confide a huge amount to their friends and pay much more attention to their peers than they do to their parents. She'll see how her friends behave with their parents and she'll listen to them talk about their feelings. I also think it's likely she'll discuss her own parents and listen to what her friends say.
Hang on in there - don't give any of them the chance to say you weren't 100% there for your kids.
OP, try not to lose all contact with the younger one. She must have been only a toddler when you split up, so is naturally closer to her mother and has then only had her mother's influence until now.
I'm guessing she's 18 or so. At this age, girls confide a huge amount to their friends and pay much more attention to their peers than they do to their parents. She'll see how her friends behave with their parents and she'll listen to them talk about their feelings. I also think it's likely she'll discuss her own parents and listen to what her friends say.
Hang on in there - don't give any of them the chance to say you weren't 100% there for your kids.
alorotom said:
What a genuinely heart breaking thread ... I have 2.5yr old and simply cannot imagine what it must be like to be in the situations above
Agreed. Mine are 21 and 19 and I can't even imagine living in a different house from them, let alone losing contact! Obviously they will leave home sooner rather than later but to have lived apart from them when they growing up, I can't imagine it. Undirection said:
My ex did a brilliant job of keeping my two daughters away from me over the past 15 years. One is 20 now and I do see her from time to time but she is busy with her own life and quite independent but the other is much more introverted and has completely fallen into the 'Dad is nasty because he makes life hard from my mum' mindset. I should I point out and I don't and I've been way more helpful and accommodating to her due to trying to keep a relationship going with my kids but she doesn't see it that way.
A couple of days ago I got a stty text from my younger daughter saying she doesn't want to see me again and neither does my other daughter (who mostly tries to keep well out of it). All on the basis of the CSA telling her mum they aren't going to get (even) more money out of me. I am not responsible for her finances and if she has messed them up its her fault. to date they have had getting on for £200k from me!
After dealing with this st for years I wonder how much longer I should bother trying to keep a relationship going with my youngest. She'll always take my ex's side and see me as the bad person.
Honestly, its all just getting a bit much...
I don't speak to my father for similar reasons to why your daughter doesn't speak to you. I don't know the details of your split, but with my parents my dad got up and left. He took advantage of my mum who has very little financial knowledge. A couple of days ago I got a s
tty text from my younger daughter saying she doesn't want to see me again and neither does my other daughter (who mostly tries to keep well out of it). All on the basis of the CSA telling her mum they aren't going to get (even) more money out of me. I am not responsible for her finances and if she has messed them up its her fault. to date they have had getting on for £200k from me!After dealing with this s
t for years I wonder how much longer I should bother trying to keep a relationship going with my youngest. She'll always take my ex's side and see me as the bad person. Honestly, its all just getting a bit much...
She wanted (as did I and my brother, as were in our teens at the time) to keep the family home. So he sold the idea to her of an interest-only mortgage, but not only that, he increased it significantly so he could take out his equity and leave her with the debt. He agreed a set amount of spousal maintenance until he retires with an increase each year by inflation (I forget which figure used).
All very fair on paper, but then he stopped paying what he owed. Made excuses, said he couldn't afford it, was quite rude about it pulling the same card as you have "I've paid X so far! Why do you need more? It's your life now!" etc. But at the same time, he'd just bought a new very nice house without selling the flat he bought after the divorce (which he enjoyed boasting about to me and my brother, how much rental income it got).
It later transpired that he underpaid by 6 months in order to pass mortgage affordability tests. As soon as his new place completed, he upped the figure again (but waited for my mum to take him to court to get the arrears...) .
Shortly after all this, I made the decision to speak to him anyway. I'd been told by a number of people "he's your only dad" and "family is important" and that I might regret cutting him out. So I started to talk to him again for a while...
A second part of the agreement was that my mum should attempt on an annual basis to remove him from her mortgage. As her income is far lower, she wasn't able to get a mortgage herself so he is still named. I helped her remortgage to a lower rate, so she could start making over-payments and clear the balance. Obviously, my dad had to sign the paperwork as he is still named and then, seeing the new rate, said he could pay her LESS because her monthly payments had decreased. This would, of course, prevent her from making the over payments and leaving him on the hook even longer. It was totally short-sighted of him, but his reasoning, again, was that he shouldn't be responsible for her anymore and she needs to be independent. He failed to realise that this was exactly what she was trying her best to do.
It was after he did this that I realised that he's just a selfish b
d. He doesn't care about her independence really, he just cares about himself. He told me that I shouldn't be involed in anything between he and my mum, but when she needed advice on the mortgage he refused to help leaving her! Which left it to me.Bit of a tangent there, but my point is that you only see one side of it. It might not even be your ex-wife giving the kids ideas, they might be making their own decisions on what they can see - My brother and I did. I don't know the details of your situation, but there are always two sides to the story and it's worth listening to your daughters without dismissing their views.
Edited to add: My mum was actually one of the loudest voices for "talk to your dad". Yes, she got angry with him, swore about him, called him all names under the sun... but never ever told me not to talk to him. When I would tell her he'd been in touch she'd always say "why don't you just go and see him?"
Part of that was because she refused to be labelled as the one who turned us away from him, but it still happened. My grandparents on my dad's side still tell me "don't listen to what your mum says, talk to your dad" and outright ignore me when I tell them "she's telling me to speak to him to! This is my decision!"
Edited by romeogolf on Monday 31st July 09:44
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