Client wants an invoice for X but Y supplied.

[P-Jay]

The initial message was deleted from this topic on 29 July 2017 at 06:14

[Thurbs]

You and your employer may well have breached the Bribery Act 2010.

If the auditor starts digging, I would get some advice, however given its value, I doubt it would go anywhere. Warehouses make mistakes all the time...

Remember an inducement doesn't have to be in brown envelopes or for a specific transaction, what you describe sounds like a loyally payment.

[530dTPhil]

Invoicing one thing and supplying another sounds more like potential fraud to me.

[P-Jay]

I forgot to add - there's a 'smoking gun' the order for X but supply Y came in the form of an email which they may had seen...

[cmaguire]

P-Jay said:

I forgot to add - there's a 'smoking gun' the order for X but supply Y came in the form of an email which they may had seen...

The problem will arise if either taxes due weren't paid or the 'deal' resulted in a third party unrelated to your arrangement (eg an insurance company footing a fraudulent bill submitted by your client based on your invoice) being deceived. If your indiscretion is related to description of services only and all relevant taxes were paid then whatever shenanigans was ocurring within your client's company is likely not your problem. You can likely bluff it out otherwise.

[anonymous-user]

In what way was he a 'good' guy?

He was a thief and a fraud and he was stealing from his employer, with the aid of your company, and yourself, by the sound of it.

Not at all comparable with high street vouchers, discounts etc. It was clearly unknown to his employer and yes, it's illegal on all sides.

[BertBert]

And you have this new little beaut to contend with now as well...

https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/05/09/336...

[Thurbs]

It is only fraud if you did it for your own gain. Bribery is the offence that you and the company has comitted.

For you:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/23/sectio...

legislation.gov.uk said:

Offences of bribing another person

(1)A person (“P”) is guilty of an offence if either of the following cases applies.

(2)Case 1 is where—

(a)P offers, promises or gives a financial or other advantage to another person, and

(b)P intends the advantage—

(i)to induce a person to perform improperly a relevant function or activity, or

(ii)to reward a person for the improper performance of such a function or activity.

(3)Case 2 is where—

(a)P offers, promises or gives a financial or other advantage to another person, and

(b)P knows or believes that the acceptance of the advantage would itself constitute the improper performance of a relevant function or activity.

(4)In case 1 it does not matter whether the person to whom the advantage is offered, promised or given is the same person as the person who is to perform, or has performed, the function or activity concerned.

Your company

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/23/sectio...

legislation.gov.uk said:

7Failure of commercial organisations to prevent bribery

(1)A relevant commercial organisation (“C”) is guilty of an offence under this section if a person (“A”) associated with C bribes another person intending—

(a)to obtain or retain business for C, or

(b)to obtain or retain an advantage in the conduct of business for C.

(2)But it is a defence for C to prove that C had in place adequate procedures designed to prevent persons associated with C from undertaking such conduct.

(3)For the purposes of this section, A bribes another person if, and only if, A—

(a)is, or would be, guilty of an offence under section 1 or 6 (whether or not A has been prosecuted for such an offence), or

(b)would be guilty of such an offence if section 12(2)(c) and (4) were omitted.

(4)See section 8 for the meaning of a person associated with C and see section 9 for a duty on the Secretary of State to publish guidance.

(5)In this section—

“partnership” means—
(a)

a partnership within the Partnership Act 1890, or
(b)

a limited partnership registered under the Limited Partnerships Act 1907,

or a firm or entity of a similar character formed under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom,

“relevant commercial organisation” means—
(a)

a body which is incorporated under the law of any part of the United Kingdom and which carries on a business (whether there or elsewhere),
(b)

any other body corporate (wherever incorporated) which carries on a business, or part of a business, in any part of the United Kingdom,
(c)

a partnership which is formed under the law of any part of the United Kingdom and which carries on a business (whether there or elsewhere), or
(d)

any other partnership (wherever formed) which carries on a business, or part of a business, in any part of the United Kingdom,

and, for the purposes of this section, a trade or profession is a business.

[quote]

Edited by Thurbs on Friday 28th July 22:53

[Wacky Racer]

Bribery goes on all the time in business, whether it's selling multi million pounds worth of fighter jets to a rich middle eastern oil rich country or a few bottles of whisky as a "sweetener" to a buyer in a large supermarket chain.

It stinks, but there it is.

[Thurbs]

We can't buy our clients a coffee anymore. Some are more "flexible" and have a £5 limit...

Working in India & Mid East is a complete joke in comparison. They are very open about the "c" word.

[James_B]

You appear to have been complicit in bribery, and to be guilty of fraud.

Either can mean jail time, so it's probably a good idea at this point to get proper legal advice, not to make do with free advice from strangers on the internet.

Are you in a union? If so, they may be able to supply you with a lawyer. The fact that you did it "for" your company is no defence, what you did is clearly illegal.

[James_B]

Wacky Racer said:

Bribery goes on all the time in business, whether it's selling multi million pounds worth of fighter jets to a rich middle eastern oil rich country or a few bottles of whisky as a "sweetener" to a buyer in a large supermarket chain.

It stinks, but there it is.

I work in a bank. We have a limit of zero for accepting gifts, and of about £50 for accepting entertainment.

If the person supplying entertainment is a broker, then the limit is zero, and there's no netting, so it would be a disciplinary matter if I bought one round and they bought the next.

I'm not surprised that other businesses have failed to get their houses in order, but I am surprised that cases like the OPs still go on.

[Thurbs]

I don't understand how fraud applies here?

Which section is the op contravening?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/conten...

As I said earlier, I believe the op (section 1 case 2) and the company (section 7) they work for may be guilty of bribery. I don't believe the company would have a defence even with correct policies and training given their complicity in the event.

The key thing is the value of the bribe. Less than 1k and only one evidenced example is not going to go anywhere. I hope the op and the company has not made a habit of it.

Edited by Thurbs on Friday 28th July 23:54

[James_B]

Thurbs said:

I don't understand how fraud applies here?

Which section is the op contravening?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/conten...

Conceivably fraud by abuse of position (against the shareholders of his firm, or the owners), or participating in fraudulent business carried on by company, or obtaining services dishonestly.

The OP appears to have colluded with a member of staff at the client's firm to defraud that firm by false invoicing, do you think that that's not over the line?

[Yipper]

You'll have to get a brief and blag it with some excuse like "lost stock" or whatever. Everyone will know you're fibbing and should be in clink for bribery / fraud, but nobody will be bothered to test the coverup for what is (in the bigger picture) a fairly small amount.

[PorkInsider]

P-Jay said:

He'll order a high value item on behalf of his employers. The purchase is justified and needed etc and something that's usually sold at a high margin due to labour costs for set-up etc. A few grand profit. Not long after the company I work for will offer him a gift - a few hundred quids worth of whatever he wants. Morally probably not right...

Do you think?

[P-Jay]

Thanks for your input everyone.

I'll speak to the solicitor on Monday.

[A205GTI]

My last company put us through anti bribery training, the rules are now that the company can effectively wash there hands of any bribery as you are liable as an individual,

for example our Finance team got a lot of flak for this statement to us.

if you take someone out to entertain can you put the reason, IE took out customer as they will give us a £20k order, (this can be classed as bribery)

but if it is worded

Entertained customer to increase sales and develop business. (this is not classed as bribery)

It all depends on what the OP was being asked to do, IE If i give you this order will you get me product X for myself, (Bribery)

I have seen what the op is describing so many times, luckily I have always refused ie invoice me for X but supply Y.

[James_B]

You're going to have a hard time convincing a jury that the payments made a few days after each big order were entertainment.

[WaferThinHam]

Initial message has been deleted, but I've had people ask me to do this at work too. I tell them to Foxtrot Oscar. It's just not worth it to me or the company.