E46 M3 Rust And Pricing
Discussion
After finding my M135i a bit anodyne, I have started looking at E46 M3s again. I went to see five this weekend all priced between £11k and £15k, aged from '02 to '04 and every car that I looked at, I found rust on the front and rear arches going from minor to quite bad.
I was really disappointed at the cars I saw, but it led me to thinking that perhaps rustless examples are very, very scarce and thus very expensive nowadays.
Has anyone found any rustless examples and if so, what price should I be looking at for a good one? Are these all £16k plus now? Are E92s rusting the same way? I do wonder if perhaps the E92 might be a better bet.
I was really disappointed at the cars I saw, but it led me to thinking that perhaps rustless examples are very, very scarce and thus very expensive nowadays.
Has anyone found any rustless examples and if so, what price should I be looking at for a good one? Are these all £16k plus now? Are E92s rusting the same way? I do wonder if perhaps the E92 might be a better bet.
I find a rustless example every time I open my front door, unfortunately for you it's not for sale and unfortunately for me it recently cost me two grand to get it that way.
There are a lot of overpriced rough examples on the market at the moment as people have seen the value of tidy examples rise but there are still tidy cars out there, you just need to spend time looking.
This manual coupe on Cutters looks to be a clean rust free car for £12k so you might want to investigate further, the subframe carrier panel hasn't been done so budget a grand for that but apart from that looks to be in good order.
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=180...
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzpydDqwYW...
There are a lot of overpriced rough examples on the market at the moment as people have seen the value of tidy examples rise but there are still tidy cars out there, you just need to spend time looking.
This manual coupe on Cutters looks to be a clean rust free car for £12k so you might want to investigate further, the subframe carrier panel hasn't been done so budget a grand for that but apart from that looks to be in good order.
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=180...
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzpydDqwYW...
They are out there. I "sort of" own one.
I say sort of as my wings are "just" beginning to bubble. The arches and sills however are fine touchwood! That's on 132k and rising. I should have replaced the wings when I had the front end resprayed ; I'll do that in the future and I may have a go myself at sorting it ; I've managed to do this well in the past but I do take my time here.
They are out there however ; it's the main reason I bought mine and it was for less than what you are looking at and I've slapped 10k miles on while barely thinking about it bar the odd mishap. It depends how fussy you are about the spec. I had mine for sale a month ago too for under 5 figures (£9k).
Wings are dealable but arches will always be expensive due to the labour involved.
IMO an E92 may be a better bet ; they have their issues ; fuel economy, high tax and throttle actuators ; a good one is still £20k. But the running costs will be less than an E46 IMHO ;
In your shoes I'd keep the M135i. The M3 is in a nicer drive but it also has the ability to emply your wallet.
I say sort of as my wings are "just" beginning to bubble. The arches and sills however are fine touchwood! That's on 132k and rising. I should have replaced the wings when I had the front end resprayed ; I'll do that in the future and I may have a go myself at sorting it ; I've managed to do this well in the past but I do take my time here.
They are out there however ; it's the main reason I bought mine and it was for less than what you are looking at and I've slapped 10k miles on while barely thinking about it bar the odd mishap. It depends how fussy you are about the spec. I had mine for sale a month ago too for under 5 figures (£9k).
Wings are dealable but arches will always be expensive due to the labour involved.
IMO an E92 may be a better bet ; they have their issues ; fuel economy, high tax and throttle actuators ; a good one is still £20k. But the running costs will be less than an E46 IMHO ;
In your shoes I'd keep the M135i. The M3 is in a nicer drive but it also has the ability to emply your wallet.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 31st July 09:32
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 31st July 09:46
Billy_Whizzzz said:
e46s rust like Billyho when they get older, but it always amazes me that most people seem not to look after their bodywork. They seem to spend huge amounts on ICT and remapping but nothing on waxoyl/dinotrol or preventative maintenance - or indeed keeping arches clear of crud...
TBH this is it. I always pressure wash the wheelarches out on my cars but I know of many that don't.As said I plan to give my front wings some love as the rust is barely noticable ATM. But I suspect it will be new wings. This time however I plan to fit them myself which should help ; I last time had a couple of things broken free of charge from a bodyshop that should have known better.
bennyboysvuk said:
After finding my M135i a bit anodyne, I have started looking at E46 M3s again. I went to see five this weekend all priced between £11k and £15k, aged from '02 to '04 and every car that I looked at, I found rust on the front and rear arches going from minor to quite bad.
I was really disappointed at the cars I saw, but it led me to thinking that perhaps rustless examples are very, very scarce and thus very expensive nowadays.
Has anyone found any rustless examples and if so, what price should I be looking at for a good one? Are these all £16k plus now? Are E92s rusting the same way? I do wonder if perhaps the E92 might be a better bet.
Plenty of rustless e46's about:I was really disappointed at the cars I saw, but it led me to thinking that perhaps rustless examples are very, very scarce and thus very expensive nowadays.
Has anyone found any rustless examples and if so, what price should I be looking at for a good one? Are these all £16k plus now? Are E92s rusting the same way? I do wonder if perhaps the E92 might be a better bet.
Here is one for sale on M3 Cutters - the place for everything M3....this is very competitively priced (car is nothing to do with me!)
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=180...
My E46 M3 - convertible - has no rust...it has had a quiet life though only 39k miles from new...
SebringMan said:
IMO an E92 may be a better bet ; they have their issues ; fuel economy, high tax and throttle actuators ; a good one is still £20k. But the running costs will be less than an E46 IMHO ;
In your shoes I'd keep the M135i. The M3 is in a nicer drive but it also has the ability to emply your wallet.
I think given the propensity for rust and all the other issues, like you say, I might well just be better off changing my plans and looking at E92s. Keeping the M135i is only a temporary solution. I find the driving experience of the M135i vs any M3 is pretty tame, so I'm keen to change. I've never owned a V8 either, which is another good reason to buy an E92. In your shoes I'd keep the M135i. The M3 is in a nicer drive but it also has the ability to emply your wallet.
I guess I'm not surprised that very few E46 owners seemed to clean the arches properly. When I owned one back in 2009 the arches got a thorough clean-out of anything sitting in them every time I cleaned the car. Had I not owned two E36s before it though, I probably would have let the arches stay dirty, but having seen the E36 arches go, I made sure the arches of my 02 car were beautiful. The examples I saw at the weekend were chocked full of mud/dirt and the paint was bubbling on the lip. They looked fine from the outside though, but as we know, once it's that bad, it's a big job to make perfect.
Thanks for the replies, all.
I'm not aware of any rust on my E46 M3 and I feel it represented pretty good value when I purchased it. If I could afford the purchase price of an E92, I'd at least give one a drive before going down the E46 route. I'd also consider an IS-F and C63, the former being the cheapest of the bunch to run by some margin and the latter with that absolutely hilarious engine.
If you're still after an E46, I may be persuaded to part with mine as a result of house building works (why does it always cost about three times more than an already inflated budget?). You're welcome to send me an email through Pistonheads if you'd like. One thing about the E46, it is currently parked outside my lounge window and I could just look at it all day, I'm not sure I could do that with an E92.
If you're still after an E46, I may be persuaded to part with mine as a result of house building works (why does it always cost about three times more than an already inflated budget?). You're welcome to send me an email through Pistonheads if you'd like. One thing about the E46, it is currently parked outside my lounge window and I could just look at it all day, I'm not sure I could do that with an E92.
SuperVM said:
Interesting replies guys, I'd be interested to know what the impressions were of the E46 vs E92 vs M4
My time in each of those cars (though all M3 rather than M4) has been pretty far apart, so my impressions are from memory:E46 - smaller, the least fast, mine had quite a racy geo set up and never understeered. The exhaust note was quite noticeable all the time. A joy to drive.
E92 - more grown up, quieter, slightly faster, handled better than the E46 (well, it did power-oversteer even more easily), felt bigger, more refined.
F80 - even more grown up. LOADS of fake engine noise. Much faster than its predecessors, loads more torque, seemed possible to make it go sideways at any speed, but back off the throttle and it felt quite anodyne. Driving it sensibly didn't stir any thoughts of M-car at all, it was only when it was pushed hard that it barked and came alive.
I'd love to spend more time in the E46 and the E92 to see which I prefer, but with 2 young kids and nobody able to lend me a car for that time, it will end up coming down to short test drives.
I've driven a few M3 E36s and a manual M4. I'd like to drive an E92 but it's finding someone whose is willing (the M4 belongs to a good friend of mine) I will admit my M3 experience is biased but I have done a few things to mine over a year. As for my experiences:
E46 M3 ; With bushes changed in the right places and a good set of boots (I went from Falkens to MPS4(S up front) the handling is lovely. It felt OK before like many I drove but it now feels fantastic. Before i did the bits to the engine it felt a little lacking, like a slightly quicker 330i. It now flies! A friend of mine was the one would said it oddly! Many I drove did not seem as quick as mine now. It is also the shape that I loved for years ; if I saw one I always looked back to see them . Sad I know.
E92 : I suspect these are faster and handle better. I love the V8 note, especially with a CP! But I'll be honest, the M3 shape has always caught my eye. The interior doesn't look that old compared to the F80 mind you!
F80 M4 : Erm, it's big! The fake sound is convincing when you first go in it but annoying after that. The throttle blipping could be annoying but handy at times ; even a hamfisted bufoon can can smooth downchanges because of this ; upchanges aren't always as easy or is getting first in a carpark. But man they are fast! They feel like they can become tricky at speed with too much throttle ; there is quite a bit of power to give! I found the steering more inert than mine but fine in Comfort ; my friend preferred Sport Plus which to me felt like it was heavier than it needed to be. What surprised me was that even with 15k on the clock this still had the "M-Clunk" like mine. They are not all that spacious inside given their large size either! I'd love one mind you!
Out of the M4 and the M3 my mate obviously prefers the pace of the M4, who wouldn't? In terms of driving the cars he preferred mine however. The 'box (mine is an SMG) he was on the fence on but to my surprise he drove 90% of the 70 mile trip in Auto (A2 for those wondering). I did not expect him to prefer the dynamics of mine ; the M4 despite being snappy at times is the grippier car!
I will say one thing. Rebushing an M3, giving the engine a correct Inspection I along with a basic VANOS service makes a tired M3 feel amazing. That goes for the low milers too. If the car has the haters' box they are begging for the CSL Rev-match update ; it really brings another element to the car and helps in transforming it ; I probably drove mine for an entire day when I did mine ; it's the best £20 I spent on the car.
E46 M3 ; With bushes changed in the right places and a good set of boots (I went from Falkens to MPS4(S up front) the handling is lovely. It felt OK before like many I drove but it now feels fantastic. Before i did the bits to the engine it felt a little lacking, like a slightly quicker 330i. It now flies! A friend of mine was the one would said it oddly! Many I drove did not seem as quick as mine now. It is also the shape that I loved for years ; if I saw one I always looked back to see them . Sad I know.
E92 : I suspect these are faster and handle better. I love the V8 note, especially with a CP! But I'll be honest, the M3 shape has always caught my eye. The interior doesn't look that old compared to the F80 mind you!
F80 M4 : Erm, it's big! The fake sound is convincing when you first go in it but annoying after that. The throttle blipping could be annoying but handy at times ; even a hamfisted bufoon can can smooth downchanges because of this ; upchanges aren't always as easy or is getting first in a carpark. But man they are fast! They feel like they can become tricky at speed with too much throttle ; there is quite a bit of power to give! I found the steering more inert than mine but fine in Comfort ; my friend preferred Sport Plus which to me felt like it was heavier than it needed to be. What surprised me was that even with 15k on the clock this still had the "M-Clunk" like mine. They are not all that spacious inside given their large size either! I'd love one mind you!
Out of the M4 and the M3 my mate obviously prefers the pace of the M4, who wouldn't? In terms of driving the cars he preferred mine however. The 'box (mine is an SMG) he was on the fence on but to my surprise he drove 90% of the 70 mile trip in Auto (A2 for those wondering). I did not expect him to prefer the dynamics of mine ; the M4 despite being snappy at times is the grippier car!
I will say one thing. Rebushing an M3, giving the engine a correct Inspection I along with a basic VANOS service makes a tired M3 feel amazing. That goes for the low milers too. If the car has the haters' box they are begging for the CSL Rev-match update ; it really brings another element to the car and helps in transforming it ; I probably drove mine for an entire day when I did mine ; it's the best £20 I spent on the car.
bennyboysvuk said:
My time in each of those cars (though all M3 rather than M4) has been pretty far apart, so my impressions are from memory:
E46 - smaller, the least fast, mine had quite a racy geo set up and never understeered. The exhaust note was quite noticeable all the time. A joy to drive.
E92 - more grown up, quieter, slightly faster, handled better than the E46 (well, it did power-oversteer even more easily), felt bigger, more refined.
F80 - even more grown up. LOADS of fake engine noise. Much faster than its predecessors, loads more torque, seemed possible to make it go sideways at any speed, but back off the throttle and it felt quite anodyne. Driving it sensibly didn't stir any thoughts of M-car at all, it was only when it was pushed hard that it barked and came alive.
I'd love to spend more time in the E46 and the E92 to see which I prefer, but with 2 young kids and nobody able to lend me a car for that time, it will end up coming down to short test drives.
That's another reason I love M3s, I have a five year old and a seven year old and can fit both in the E46 relatively comfortably when I need to do a school run and my wife is using the other car. When my youngest was a newborn I had an E36 M3 Evo and regularly used it on the weekends. E46 - smaller, the least fast, mine had quite a racy geo set up and never understeered. The exhaust note was quite noticeable all the time. A joy to drive.
E92 - more grown up, quieter, slightly faster, handled better than the E46 (well, it did power-oversteer even more easily), felt bigger, more refined.
F80 - even more grown up. LOADS of fake engine noise. Much faster than its predecessors, loads more torque, seemed possible to make it go sideways at any speed, but back off the throttle and it felt quite anodyne. Driving it sensibly didn't stir any thoughts of M-car at all, it was only when it was pushed hard that it barked and came alive.
I'd love to spend more time in the E46 and the E92 to see which I prefer, but with 2 young kids and nobody able to lend me a car for that time, it will end up coming down to short test drives.
Yay, mine must be a rarity then, not one spot of rust.
However, I think it was a garage queen for previous owners - 15k miles in 5 years. All that's changed now as I've done over 5000 in 11 months, it's used everyday and lives outside.... this time next year it'll be a horrible rotting mess no doubt!
However, I think it was a garage queen for previous owners - 15k miles in 5 years. All that's changed now as I've done over 5000 in 11 months, it's used everyday and lives outside.... this time next year it'll be a horrible rotting mess no doubt!
mikey-r said:
Yay, mine must be a rarity then, not one spot of rust.
However, I think it was a garage queen for previous owners - 15k miles in 5 years. All that's changed now as I've done over 5000 in 11 months, it's used everyday and lives outside.... this time next year it'll be a horrible rotting mess no doubt!
Alot of it is probably down to improper or lack of cleaning. Many E46s I have see contain all sorts of wildlfe under the wheelarches!However, I think it was a garage queen for previous owners - 15k miles in 5 years. All that's changed now as I've done over 5000 in 11 months, it's used everyday and lives outside.... this time next year it'll be a horrible rotting mess no doubt!
Since I've had a pressure washer the wheel arches don't seem to go as bad on my new cars. But I've take some right crap out before! I'm sure I once took enough sand out from an MGB that I could have built a sandcastle! It probably didn't help that it lived in Totnes for a while!
My 80k miles 2005 E46 M3 front arch has just started to bubble ... frustratingly on a wing that I had resprayed 18 months ago, because some of the lacquer came off when pressure washing.
The bodyshop who did it reckon it had probably had a new coat of lacquer badly applied.Possibly, I bought it Approved Used at 2yrs old.
Hmmm ... I didn't expect their work on top of that to go duff so soon! Alas only a 12 month warranty on work/materials.
The factory painted side that hasn't been touched is still good as new.
The bodyshop who did it reckon it had probably had a new coat of lacquer badly applied.Possibly, I bought it Approved Used at 2yrs old.
Hmmm ... I didn't expect their work on top of that to go duff so soon! Alas only a 12 month warranty on work/materials.
The factory painted side that hasn't been touched is still good as new.
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