Coffee Machines (advice sought!)

[okgo]

I know we've had a couple of threads on these, but none were exactly the same sort of question I'm asking myself.

Firstly, my use of my current machine (a Nespresso thing) - coffee before work each morning. Then maybe 5 or so cups over the weekend. Before work I'm a bit time poor, but at the weekend obviously less so.

I drink my coffee with milk, I usually ask for a Cappuccino from a shop (not a fan of super milky like a latte).

My question is, because I'm a sucker for marketing and I love the look of the Rocket machines, am I best off just getting a decent bean to cup (the Sage Barrista Express looks good?) or do proper machines like the Rocket ones for example take little time to get to grips with and allow a good but fairly quick cup of coffee to be made?

[TopGear7]

I think for your needs a Sage Barista Express would do perfectly. You could continue to use the Nespresso as your before work hassle free time efficient coffee and then the Sage on the weekend.

However the Rockets do look incredible. If budget isn't an issue then I mean there's no reason not to go for one. However considering they are 1400 odd quid and the Sage is about 500? It's one to think about. Perhaps someone more knowledgable about matters could comment as to how much better a cup of coffee you'd get out of it over the Sage.

You'd also need to factor in you'd need a separate grinder if you went for the Rocket

[opieoilman]

I have a Delonghi bean to cup machine. I can't remember the exact model, but it was about £250. I have had Gaggia and Delonghi normal machines in the past and while they made a good cup of coffee, they didn't last long and the faff of loading it up each time was a pain as I'm always running late in the morning. Perhaps a bean to cup is not the traditional way, but mine makes a good, consistent cup and quickly.

[okgo]

My issue with the nespresso one being that the coffee tastes nothing like what I get out of the shop near work (Tap on Tott Court Rd) - so I wanted to get nearer to that.

Budget not an issue really, I probably wouldn't stretch to the Rocket r58 with grinder and that would be about 3 grand, which would take a while to pay back in cups of coffee! But they do machines for less, the Apartmento looks nice

[Zod]

okgo said:

I know we've had a couple of threads on these, but none were exactly the same sort of question I'm asking myself.

Firstly, my use of my current machine (a Nespresso thing) - coffee before work each morning. Then maybe 5 or so cups over the weekend. Before work I'm a bit time poor, but at the weekend obviously less so.

I drink my coffee with milk, I usually ask for a Cappuccino from a shop (not a fan of super milky like a latte).

My question is, because I'm a sucker for marketing and I love the look of the Rocket machines, am I best off just getting a decent bean to cup (the Sage Barrista Express looks good?) or do proper machines like the Rocket ones for example take little time to get to grips with and allow a good but fairly quick cup of coffee to be made?

I've had a Rocket Giotto for seven years. It needs ten minutes to warm up, so I turn it on before getting in the shower in the morning. Making two cups of coffee takes about three minutes: grind beans, lock in group and pour shot x2, then steam milk. If you are not used to using a real espresso machine, it takes a week or so of practice to get it all right (there are plenty of youtube videos), but it's worth it. You will soon be making coffee as well as any bearded hipster in Shoreditch.

I have a Rancilio Rocky grinder. It's cheaper than the Mini-Mazzer and does a good job.

Before the Rocket, I had a bean-to-cup Gaggia, with touch screen controls that was an unreliable piece of crap and before that a bean-to-cup Saeco (same group as Gaggia) that was more reliable, but no quicker than the Rocket for indifferent coffee.

Edited by Zod on Monday 31st July 16:13

[Shaw Tarse]

okgo said:

My issue with the nespresso one being that the coffee tastes nothing like what I get out of the shop near work (Tap on Tott Court Rd) - so I wanted to get nearer to that.

I'd say to get a barista grade coffee at home will be difficult, or time consuming, beans will play a part.

[SilverSixer]

opieoilman said:

I have a Delonghi bean to cup machine. I can't remember the exact model, but it was about £250. I have had Gaggia and Delonghi normal machines in the past and while they made a good cup of coffee, they didn't last long and the faff of loading it up each time was a pain as I'm always running late in the morning. Perhaps a bean to cup is not the traditional way, but mine makes a good, consistent cup and quickly.

This. My Missus bought ours (Delonghi also about £250) and I was rolling my eyes at the unnecessary expense, as I didn't drink much coffee. Now I'm a convert and have a cup every morning and several over the weekend. Quick, easy, great tasting coffee. We buy really good, cheap coffee beans at Lidl in big bags.

[okgo]

Shaw Tarse said:

I'd say to get a barista grade coffee at home will be difficult, or time consuming, beans will play a part.

That was my worry. I don't have any tattoos or a beard. I could very well end up with something akin to Maxwell House courtesy of a £1500 machine...

[Biggles delivers the goods]

I have a Pavoni, it's an Italian make and it looks mega. Again, it takes about 10 minutes to warm up but once it does its fairly self explanatory. You what for the steam pressure to build and then pour your shots.
Beans do make a big difference. i get mine from coffee plant on Portobello Road (it's just by my office). You can buy whole beans or they will grind them for you.

http://www.myespresso.co.uk/

[Zod]

okgo said:

Shaw Tarse said:

I'd say to get a barista grade coffee at home will be difficult, or time consuming, beans will play a part.

That was my worry. I don't have any tattoos or a beard. I could very well end up with something akin to Maxwell House courtesy of a £1500 machine...

I sometimes have a beard, but no tattoos. You will be able to make good coffee with a Rocket. Buy it from the right place and they'll give you a lesson.

[Flying machine]

Zod said:

okgo said:

Shaw Tarse said:

I'd say to get a barista grade coffee at home will be difficult, or time consuming, beans will play a part.

That was my worry. I don't have any tattoos or a beard. I could very well end up with something akin to Maxwell House courtesy of a £1500 machine...

I sometimes have a beard, but no tattoos. You will be able to make good coffee with a Rocket. Buy it from the right place and they'll give you a lesson.

I'd recommend a Rocket - I've got an R58 and it's brilliant. Bit of fiddling about getting to know how to work it initially, but then it'll make very good, and reproducibly so, coffee. Exactly what Zod said - give it a little time to warm up and off you go...

The R58 also produces a decent amount of steam, and so making steamed milk drinks is easy, something I struggled to do with my previous Ascaso machine.

Plus, the Rocket machines look beautiful (as far as a coffee machine can be beautiful!) and seem very well made. The only downside is keeping it clean, all that shiny metal...

I've got a Mazzer Mini which is superb and get most of my beans from 'hasbean', which are almost without fail, delicious. I bought my machine from Bella Barista and I completely recommend them. I used the same grinder and beans with the previous machine, but the Rocket is an order of magnitude better.

[feef]

I started out with a Gaggia Classic, and upgraded from there to a Platinum bean-to-cup machine. But then I got more interested in the making of the coffee so got a Isomac Zafiro (as it has an Faema e61 group-head), but after it sprung a terminal boiler leak (boilers aren nigh on impossible to source), I ended up acquiring a second hand, single group Fracino Bambino which is a plumbed-in, commercial machine.

I'd say the big jump in the quality of the coffee came in moving from the bean-to-cup to the Isomac. There's no massive difference between the Isomac and the Fracino in the quality of the shot, but the big difference is the instant steam (Isomac is a single boiler) and rotary pump which means it doses incredibly quickly. BUT the difference between even the Gaggia Classic or Platinum from a Nespresso is quite noticeable

I think the first jump from a Nespresso needn't be as far as the Rocket or similar (although I'm a sucker for a stainless steel gadget in my kitchen), but even a Gaggia Classic or similar would be fine as an entry into espresso based drinks. If you're not looking for lots of steam for lattes and the like, then single boiler machines should be sufficient, and are, as a result, significantly cheaper than dual boiler jobs.

[Zod]

feef said:

I started out with a Gaggia Classic, and upgraded from there to a Platinum bean-to-cup machine. But then I got more interested in the making of the coffee so got a Isomac Zafiro (as it has an Faema e61 group-head), but after it sprung a terminal boiler leak (boilers aren nigh on impossible to source), I ended up acquiring a second hand, single group Fracino Bambino which is a plumbed-in, commercial machine.

I'd say the big jump in the quality of the coffee came in moving from the bean-to-cup to the Isomac. There's no massive difference between the Isomac and the Fracino in the quality of the shot, but the big difference is the instant steam (Isomac is a single boiler) and rotary pump which means it doses incredibly quickly. BUT the difference between even the Gaggia Classic or Platinum from a Nespresso is quite noticeable

I think the first jump from a Nespresso needn't be as far as the Rocket or similar (although I'm a sucker for a stainless steel gadget in my kitchen), but even a Gaggia Classic or similar would be fine as an entry into espresso based drinks. If you're not looking for lots of steam for lattes and the like, then single boiler machines should be sufficient, and are, as a result, significantly cheaper than dual boiler jobs.

The Rocket has a single boiler, but a clever system that uses the boiler for steam and the boiling water pipe, but heats the water for espresso by pumping it from the reservoir along pipes that run through the boiler, heating it on its way from reservoir to group head, so it always has steam, straight after pouring shots.

[okgo]

I think the R58 is dual though isn't it? Hence the big hike in cost?

Thanks guys, interesting stuff!

[Zod]

okgo said:

I think the R58 is dual though isn't it? Hence the big hike in cost?

Thanks guys, interesting stuff!

Yes, I think that's right. I don't think you need more than a Giotto or Cellini.

[okgo]

Zod said:

Yes, I think that's right. I don't think you need more than a Giotto or Cellini.

The apartmento looks quite nice, I've yet to side by side the specs to see what it doesn't have vs the others.

[feef]

Zod said:

feef said:

I started out with a Gaggia Classic, and upgraded from there to a Platinum bean-to-cup machine. But then I got more interested in the making of the coffee so got a Isomac Zafiro (as it has an Faema e61 group-head), but after it sprung a terminal boiler leak (boilers aren nigh on impossible to source), I ended up acquiring a second hand, single group Fracino Bambino which is a plumbed-in, commercial machine.

I'd say the big jump in the quality of the coffee came in moving from the bean-to-cup to the Isomac. There's no massive difference between the Isomac and the Fracino in the quality of the shot, but the big difference is the instant steam (Isomac is a single boiler) and rotary pump which means it doses incredibly quickly. BUT the difference between even the Gaggia Classic or Platinum from a Nespresso is quite noticeable

I think the first jump from a Nespresso needn't be as far as the Rocket or similar (although I'm a sucker for a stainless steel gadget in my kitchen), but even a Gaggia Classic or similar would be fine as an entry into espresso based drinks. If you're not looking for lots of steam for lattes and the like, then single boiler machines should be sufficient, and are, as a result, significantly cheaper than dual boiler jobs.

The Rocket has a single boiler, but a clever system that uses the boiler for steam and the boiling water pipe, but heats the water for espresso by pumping it from the reservoir along pipes that run through the boiler, heating it on its way from reservoir to group head, so it always has steam, straight after pouring shots.

Interesting..

Thanks..

[Zod]

My Rocket suffered a problem yesterday morning. After seven years, the end of the spindle of the steam valve rod sheared off. I needed a coffee, so I got out the spanners, removed it and swapped it for the rod from the hot water valve. Easy to do and I got my coffee. I ordered a new one for £10 that will arrive tomorrow. That's one of the great things about the Rocket: apart from the boiler, most of the parts are generic and readily available. It's reliable, but wear and tear will eventually get to seals and valves.

[ajcj]

Something else to consider if you're looking for good quality - I bought a commercial-grade Jura machine a few years back. They were £2.5k new then, but I got a second-hand one that had been refurbished for £400. It probably spent the first few years of its life in an Audi dealership, and now does about 3 brews a day on average for me! Jura are certainly very well made, well-respected machines, and I would recommend - but have a look around for refurbed kit in any of the best brands and you might get something very good indeed for a fraction of the full price.

[Blown2CV]

coffee machines are the biggest con in the world, and mugs love to waste hundreds on them so that people will think they are successful and ask them how much they cost when they come for dinnah partays. Just get an aeropress and a burr hand grinder.