Sailing Holidays - advice
Discussion
We have not done any sailing before but thinking of taking it up. We are looking to book with Sailing Holidays next year for a flotilla in Greece. If we enjoy that we will look to do some training and perhaps in following years go bareboat charter (and eventually when I retire buy our own boat).
Two quick questions for those that have done such holidays...
We have been recommended a Beneteau 323 as just the three of us (me, wife and daughter). However, from the video on the website it seems quite cramped. An alternative would be a Beneteau 38, which seems larger but is a lot more expensive (as effectively we would have under occupancy). Would we really notice the extra size?
Also (and I know this makes us look like snowflakes...)....normally when we go on vacation we rent villas (usually in Spain, France, etc). We only ever hire villas with AC because we find it difficult to sleep in the heat without it. The boats seem to have fans but not AC. What is it like on the boats in Greece? As hot as on land or cooler?
Any other advice or comments?
Two quick questions for those that have done such holidays...
We have been recommended a Beneteau 323 as just the three of us (me, wife and daughter). However, from the video on the website it seems quite cramped. An alternative would be a Beneteau 38, which seems larger but is a lot more expensive (as effectively we would have under occupancy). Would we really notice the extra size?
Also (and I know this makes us look like snowflakes...)....normally when we go on vacation we rent villas (usually in Spain, France, etc). We only ever hire villas with AC because we find it difficult to sleep in the heat without it. The boats seem to have fans but not AC. What is it like on the boats in Greece? As hot as on land or cooler?
Any other advice or comments?
Hi,Obviously a bigger boat is more spacious, but you will be spending most of your time in the cockpit and that will be plenty big enough for three. Flotilla holidays are as much about the social side as sailing, evenings are block booked restaurants or BBQ on beach . Boat handling on a 38 is quite a bit trickier you are much further away from the pointy bit when on the helm. If you want to be kind to your crew make sure your anchor windlass is electric. It can be very hot, it was 40c a couple of weeks ago, how comfortable you are below decks depends on how long the boat sits baking in the sun having moored up. Leaving hatches open and fans on makes it OK but mosquito mesh over any hatch is a real plus. The sailing and pilotage in the Ionian is about as easy as it gets, no tide or current to speak of and visual navigation. Sea is really warm in September more like a warm bath and is alway a quick jump off the stern as a cool down option. You will enjoy I am sure, For what it is worth, I would advise taking the smaller boat as my first ever sailing experience.
Oh sailing holidays are a great outfit I know many people who have been on their flotillas and all recommended them.
Hope this helps.
Oh sailing holidays are a great outfit I know many people who have been on their flotillas and all recommended them.
Hope this helps.
We hired La Sorella from Sail Grenadenes (http://www.sailgrenadines.com/) from Kate complete with Skipper Kieran. Best holiday we have had by some country mile. 30kt winds, 3m waves with some boat surfing to boot.
You arrive at places like Salt Wistle Bay and have to pinch your self. I used to think that these places only exist on postcards, not real life!
It has fundamentally shaped the planning of the rest of our lives.
You arrive at places like Salt Wistle Bay and have to pinch your self. I used to think that these places only exist on postcards, not real life!
It has fundamentally shaped the planning of the rest of our lives.
Unless you get a skippered boat, you will need to do your day skipper to charter in Greece. A flotilla just gives you a guide boat.
I would think 32 feet would be fine for a week for 3 people.
It can be warm sleeping on board, but cooler than on land. You will acclimatise pretty quickly and sleeping on deck is an option
Look at how many nights on board you get, and also look for the proximity of airports / transfers and flight days.
I would think 32 feet would be fine for a week for 3 people.
It can be warm sleeping on board, but cooler than on land. You will acclimatise pretty quickly and sleeping on deck is an option
Look at how many nights on board you get, and also look for the proximity of airports / transfers and flight days.
Smaller boat is much easier handle, line loads will be lighter, board will be more manoeuvrable.
We spent many years as a family of four holidaying on our 33 footer. We moved onto a 40 footer and sold it mainly as it was less enjoyable, couldn't be sailed single handed easily, only the males in the family could easily handle the winching, fending etc.
For 3 people the smaller boat will have plenty of space
We spent many years as a family of four holidaying on our 33 footer. We moved onto a 40 footer and sold it mainly as it was less enjoyable, couldn't be sailed single handed easily, only the males in the family could easily handle the winching, fending etc.
For 3 people the smaller boat will have plenty of space
Can’t say I have any issues short handed sailing upto 50ft in fact a good portion of 2 handed sailing has been on a 50ft yacht.
Manouvering a 65ft swan is a lot harder 2 handed and certainly stressful!
I would pay for the more space especially as it’s your first time and as mentioned you will need to pay for a skipper.
Manouvering a 65ft swan is a lot harder 2 handed and certainly stressful!
I would pay for the more space especially as it’s your first time and as mentioned you will need to pay for a skipper.
SantaBarbara said:
Why don't you have a trial run first in Poole Harbour or the Norfolk Broads
Start small
In the process of organising just this! One day boat charter in Suffolk. Although I recognise that if the weather is crap and the water rough it might put my wife off (although knowing my daughter if it was rough and she got wet that would make her happier!)Start small
33 foot boat should be fine for three for a week. In fact that's probably a better size to experience than anything bigger if you're planning to eventually buy and sail on the east UK coast as it'll be closer to what's reasonably usable in that area. Although it's a lovely thing to sail in open water on proper passages a 40 footer with 6-7 foot draft creeping about over shoals on a falling tide in the upper reaches of the Essex and Suffolk rivers ain't quite so much fun.
Marinas can be noisy - you may be ready for a kip but the crew in the next berth might be planning an all nighter, or the keyside restaurant could still be buzzing with locals at 1am. Any wind will have warps creaking away and mean there'll be a constant slop and splash of water against the hull and the odd squeak of fenders and thump and bump as boats shift about.
As a restless and light sleeper that's probably the worst aspect of being on board for me so unless you sleep like you're nearly dead take some earplugs.
Marinas can be noisy - you may be ready for a kip but the crew in the next berth might be planning an all nighter, or the keyside restaurant could still be buzzing with locals at 1am. Any wind will have warps creaking away and mean there'll be a constant slop and splash of water against the hull and the odd squeak of fenders and thump and bump as boats shift about.
As a restless and light sleeper that's probably the worst aspect of being on board for me so unless you sleep like you're nearly dead take some earplugs.
Definitely stick with the B323, it's actually quite a beamy boat with plenty of space inside (3 cabin or 2 configuration? Not that it matters much).
Picking up a mooring, manoeuvring, docking etc.. are all a lot easy on a smaller boat. It's not just the extra footage but weight as well.
Anyhow, whatever you pick, just make sure you stick with your convictions and DO IT!
So many people dream but never follow through. You're a PH'er but more importantly, you're in Boats, Planes & Trains, so you're clearly not like the norm and therefore it's your duty to follow through and then post some awesome pictures.
PS. I don't know about air con, personally i wouldn't bother, the hulls are in the water, the water is cool. Jump in to reduce your core temp.
Picking up a mooring, manoeuvring, docking etc.. are all a lot easy on a smaller boat. It's not just the extra footage but weight as well.
Anyhow, whatever you pick, just make sure you stick with your convictions and DO IT!
So many people dream but never follow through. You're a PH'er but more importantly, you're in Boats, Planes & Trains, so you're clearly not like the norm and therefore it's your duty to follow through and then post some awesome pictures.
PS. I don't know about air con, personally i wouldn't bother, the hulls are in the water, the water is cool. Jump in to reduce your core temp.
ecsrobin said:
Can’t say I have any issues short handed sailing upto 50ft in fact a good portion of 2 handed sailing has been on a 50ft yacht.
Manouvering a 65ft swan is a lot harder 2 handed and certainly stressful!
I would pay for the more space especially as it’s your first time and as mentioned you will need to pay for a skipper.
Sailing Holidays don't require any qualifications for their flotilla holidays, its quite amazing that they let you lose on a yacht with a half day briefing only.Manouvering a 65ft swan is a lot harder 2 handed and certainly stressful!
I would pay for the more space especially as it’s your first time and as mentioned you will need to pay for a skipper.
We did it for my dads 70th best holiday I've been on. My dad has since got his day skipper and bought a boat, now spending his second summer sailing the med!
Thanks for all the comments.
We have now booked a day's charter here in the UK with a sleepover in the boat the night before. In just two weeks. Can't wait! Hopefully it will go well and wife and daughter will still be up for a trip to Greece next year.
Although there doesn't seem to be a consensus of opinion above the majority is for the 323 and I am also thinking in that direction.
We have now booked a day's charter here in the UK with a sleepover in the boat the night before. In just two weeks. Can't wait! Hopefully it will go well and wife and daughter will still be up for a trip to Greece next year.
Although there doesn't seem to be a consensus of opinion above the majority is for the 323 and I am also thinking in that direction.
Esceptico said:
Two quick questions for those that have done such holidays...
We have been on several sailing holidays flotillas -In your situation, I would go with the 323 - as others have said, it is pretty wide and you spend most of the time in the cockpit pottering from bay to bay. You will be fine with the size for 3.The stressful times are coming in and out of harbour and anchoring in a busy bay for a spot of lunch. For this, you want a boat you can easily handle and the SH 323 has wheel steering and an electric windlass so is a good fit.
Esceptico said:
What is it like on the boats in Greece? As hot as on land or cooler?
it is the hottest place on earth - after the afternoon breeze dies and you are in a harbour, the lack of air movement means the cabin gets sweltering, Sailing holidays provide a windsock that you can mount above a hatch to get some airflow - do this as soon as you moor up and hope for a gentle breeze.that said, enjoy the heat, move slowly - it's Greece and you are on a yacht.
Esceptico said:
Any other advice or comments?
There are several threads on the sailing holidays Facebook page with loads of tips of what to take. For me - take no clothes - you don't need them - the smallest softest bag you can get away with is the right answer - I always chuckle at people turning up for a sailing holiday with a giant suitcase stuffed full - what for exactly?
The sailing holidays boats are well stocked compared to some. Other things to take - a 12v car phone charger adapter thing. this way you can charge your phone on board (not that you'll find much signal).
Buy frozen water at every opportunity to stick in the freezer.
Take a flag to fly
and for the snowflakes - take sailing gloves if you want to keep your hands soft
Bob
We are just back from this years trip, Greece this time round the Ionian both north and south of the Lefkas canal.
Regarding clothes, lose fitting short sleeve shirt is way better and cooler than a t shirt.
Shoes, didn't wear any for two weeks.
When on your charter get some practice of mooring stern too and handling a boat in reverse, get used to prop walk and the limited responsiveness of the boat in reverse.
Be prepared to buy a boat on your return, they get under your skin!
Regarding clothes, lose fitting short sleeve shirt is way better and cooler than a t shirt.
Shoes, didn't wear any for two weeks.
When on your charter get some practice of mooring stern too and handling a boat in reverse, get used to prop walk and the limited responsiveness of the boat in reverse.
Be prepared to buy a boat on your return, they get under your skin!
Edited by gruffalo on Saturday 5th August 09:10
The 323 is ideal for a couple but with both cabins occupied you will have nowhere to put your luggage. If the money isn't an issue then you will undoubtedly find the 38 considerably more comfortable. The 38 is a great looking new design and if you are also trying to persuade the missus of your plans then she is bound to like it.
If you've never actually sailed anything before then realistically you will probably just motor everywhere anyway, and it's not really a secret to say that the reason Sailing Holidays let novices take these big boats out is that on the flotillas where they do so, there isn't much wind to sail with even if you wanted to.
Parking isn't an issue as the flotilla skipper will tell you where drop the anchor and if he has any doubts about you then his mate will be in the dinghy ready to nudge the boat in the right direction for you.
For the flotillas that do get significant wind e.g. the Saronic, they will get quite interested in your previous experience.
If you've never actually sailed anything before then realistically you will probably just motor everywhere anyway, and it's not really a secret to say that the reason Sailing Holidays let novices take these big boats out is that on the flotillas where they do so, there isn't much wind to sail with even if you wanted to.
Parking isn't an issue as the flotilla skipper will tell you where drop the anchor and if he has any doubts about you then his mate will be in the dinghy ready to nudge the boat in the right direction for you.
For the flotillas that do get significant wind e.g. the Saronic, they will get quite interested in your previous experience.
Our first flotilla was on a 33 ft boat, then 40 ft the following year, now up to 57 ft many years later!
As others have said it will definitely get under your skin.
If you are reasonably fit and confident in your abilities then go for the 38 ft as you will really notice the difference in space on board, as volume just about doubles for every 10 ft of length.
Flotillas are of course a great way to meet like-minded people and the larger boats are great for socialising at anchor in the evening when you can invite other families over for drinks. Getting 7-8 people into the cockpit of a 33 ft will be a bit of a squeeze.
When on the 40ft, we had the largest boat in the flotilla, so got a bit of special treatment from the lead crew in terms of where they put us in the marina/dock/raft and most of the other families were keen to come and visit.
Regarding the aircon issue, you will just need to get used to sleeping without it in your early years. I have never seen a flotilla boat with it and most bareboats with aircon are either 45 ft catamarans or 50ft and above monohulls. The air-con needs a separate generator to run it and whilst you can connect to shore power at night to avoid the use of the generator, this is often not available in Greece, or it just keeps tripping due to the high load. Yachts running their diesel generators overnight in confined mooring locations are less than popular, as everyone else can hear/smell it.
Sleeping up on deck or even in the mainsail bag is a unique experience and all part of the fun.
One thing I would advise is always top up your fresh water tank/s when you get the opportunity, and/or shower on shore. Not having enough water to take a fresh shower when you need one will sour your experience.
So whatever boat you do decide on, just book it, you will not regret it.
As others have said it will definitely get under your skin.
If you are reasonably fit and confident in your abilities then go for the 38 ft as you will really notice the difference in space on board, as volume just about doubles for every 10 ft of length.
Flotillas are of course a great way to meet like-minded people and the larger boats are great for socialising at anchor in the evening when you can invite other families over for drinks. Getting 7-8 people into the cockpit of a 33 ft will be a bit of a squeeze.
When on the 40ft, we had the largest boat in the flotilla, so got a bit of special treatment from the lead crew in terms of where they put us in the marina/dock/raft and most of the other families were keen to come and visit.
Regarding the aircon issue, you will just need to get used to sleeping without it in your early years. I have never seen a flotilla boat with it and most bareboats with aircon are either 45 ft catamarans or 50ft and above monohulls. The air-con needs a separate generator to run it and whilst you can connect to shore power at night to avoid the use of the generator, this is often not available in Greece, or it just keeps tripping due to the high load. Yachts running their diesel generators overnight in confined mooring locations are less than popular, as everyone else can hear/smell it.
Sleeping up on deck or even in the mainsail bag is a unique experience and all part of the fun.
One thing I would advise is always top up your fresh water tank/s when you get the opportunity, and/or shower on shore. Not having enough water to take a fresh shower when you need one will sour your experience.
So whatever boat you do decide on, just book it, you will not regret it.
Off the top of my head:
Suitcases, make sure the whole crew pack light, using soft bags, hard cases are a nightmare to store on a yacht.Take clothes pegs just in case there aren't any in the boat, the yacht's guard rails are perfect for drying wet clothes/towels.
Many flotilla yachts won't have a moving map display in the cockpit so consider getting a marine navigation app on your phone/tablet, data roaming in EU is a thing of the past, so it is very simple and cheap to use these apps for navigation (unless you prefer to do it old school).
I have used Navionics which also has modules for winds, tides, etc.
Make sure you download the detailed chart data for your particular sailing area before you go or when you have a fast data connection.
Yacht manoeuvring in confined spaces: the most common issue is using too much throttle and also leaving the throttle in gear when trying to reverse or turn tightly, neutral is your best friend once the yacht has just enough momentum. Obviously you will need to use the throttle to get it moving or stop the boat, but don't leave it in gear as it's very easy to get distracted and forget that the boat is gathering momentum just when you don't want it. When anchoring, plan ahead and think about where everyone else's anchor is. Crossed anchor chains are a common issue so do your best to avoid becoming part of the problem.
Having said all that, the lead boat will be on hand to help, including using their dinghy to push you into position and drop/recover your anchor if needed.
The key is to take your time with everything so you and the crew can be relaxed and enjoy the whole week!
Suitcases, make sure the whole crew pack light, using soft bags, hard cases are a nightmare to store on a yacht.Take clothes pegs just in case there aren't any in the boat, the yacht's guard rails are perfect for drying wet clothes/towels.
Many flotilla yachts won't have a moving map display in the cockpit so consider getting a marine navigation app on your phone/tablet, data roaming in EU is a thing of the past, so it is very simple and cheap to use these apps for navigation (unless you prefer to do it old school).
I have used Navionics which also has modules for winds, tides, etc.
Make sure you download the detailed chart data for your particular sailing area before you go or when you have a fast data connection.
Yacht manoeuvring in confined spaces: the most common issue is using too much throttle and also leaving the throttle in gear when trying to reverse or turn tightly, neutral is your best friend once the yacht has just enough momentum. Obviously you will need to use the throttle to get it moving or stop the boat, but don't leave it in gear as it's very easy to get distracted and forget that the boat is gathering momentum just when you don't want it. When anchoring, plan ahead and think about where everyone else's anchor is. Crossed anchor chains are a common issue so do your best to avoid becoming part of the problem.
Having said all that, the lead boat will be on hand to help, including using their dinghy to push you into position and drop/recover your anchor if needed.
The key is to take your time with everything so you and the crew can be relaxed and enjoy the whole week!
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
And if non sailors - don't worry or flap when the boat starts leaning.
The amount of times you take a newbie out and they become ashen faced as soon as there is some leaning (aka heeling).
You need some real real winds to put a boat over!
If the leeward winch stays out of the water and the rudder stays in the water then really there's nothing to concern yourself over The amount of times you take a newbie out and they become ashen faced as soon as there is some leaning (aka heeling).
You need some real real winds to put a boat over!
Apart from spilling the Skippers refreshing light beverage or getting his bloody fags wet that is...
Jaguar steve said:
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
And if non sailors - don't worry or flap when the boat starts leaning.
The amount of times you take a newbie out and they become ashen faced as soon as there is some leaning (aka heeling).
You need some real real winds to put a boat over!
If the leeward winch stays out of the water and the rudder stays in the water then really there's nothing to concern yourself over The amount of times you take a newbie out and they become ashen faced as soon as there is some leaning (aka heeling).
You need some real real winds to put a boat over!
Apart from spilling the Skippers refreshing light beverage or getting his bloody fags wet that is...
The flatter the better for speed, height and comfort. Always.
Edited by schmalex on Saturday 12th August 20:01
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