Caught by council yellow box racket
Discussion
My Dad got a PCN from Brent for allegedly stopping in a yellow box. I have requested the video (still haven't got it after 24+ hours) but my Dad insists that the traffic began to move and the car in front hesitated, but he was clear of the box junction within a couple of seconds of slowing down at the exit. Hardly a fair penalty.
Here is the PCN:
I want to dispute it for the following reasons.
Here is the PCN:
I want to dispute it for the following reasons.
- The location of the alleged contravention is incorrect. PCN states Neald Crescent when in fact it is Neeld Crescent - confirmed by OS.
- The first photograph does not have the registration of the vehicle.
- There are just 7 seconds between the photo of the vehicle waiting at the edge of the junction and the car passing through the end of the box junction. There is no proof that the vehicle was actually stopped in the box junction.
Sorry not much sympathy from me.
Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
the lines look fairly clear in the picture
just 7 seconds? i make it 8
that is a fairly long time to be passing across a box that is probably 8-10m
maybe the video will show the car slowing moving at about 3mph, but i suspect it wont
Not supporting this sort of petty cctv enforcement, but i suspect it's not going to be contestable.
just 7 seconds? i make it 8
that is a fairly long time to be passing across a box that is probably 8-10m
maybe the video will show the car slowing moving at about 3mph, but i suspect it wont
Not supporting this sort of petty cctv enforcement, but i suspect it's not going to be contestable.
Drumroll said:
Sorry not much sympathy from me.
Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Agreed, but do know how difficult they are to judge sometimes.Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
The motorist is, after all, the easiest cash cow there is.
Drumroll said:
Sorry not much sympathy from me.
Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
The highway code however is not the law and there is no offence of entering a YBJ if your exit is blocked. Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
The actual legislation states:-
a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles
Cat
Cat said:
The highway code however is not the law and there is no offence of entering a YBJ if your exit is blocked.
The actual legislation states:-
a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles
Cat
Which is basically the same thing.The actual legislation states:-
a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles
Cat
Drumroll said:
Which is basically the same thing.
Not it's not. A key elements of the offence is that the vehicle must stop in YBJ the HC makes no mention of this. It is perfectly legal to enter a YBJ when your exit is blocked (despite the HC saying you MUST NOT) provided that you don't come to a stop due to stationary vehicles.
Cat
Drumroll said:
Sorry not much sympathy from me.
Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do?Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Drumroll said:
Sorry not much sympathy from me.
Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Firstly, the Highway Code is not law. Secondly, the above wording is incorrect and NOT what the relevant Regulation says which is:Read what the highway code actually says:
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles
The word 'until' is notably absent.
The exit does not have to clear, you just have to make sure you're not caught out if the traffic backs up or some unexpected situation occurs, For example, while moving through the box some git cuts you up and takes the space you had planned to occupy thereby forcing you to stop with your vehicle either wholly or partly within the box. See Essoo v LB Enfield Case Reference 2130232767 (appeal allowed after review).
Stills alone are not enough. The complete video will be required to establish the full facts in the OP's case. The crucial bit being whether or not the the vehicle was at any point stationary within the box.
OP, forget the typo regarding the location. It will be disregarded under the 'slip rule' (de minimis)
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