PCN / RingGo issue due to test driving a car
Discussion
I use RingGo most days to pay for parking as I travel by car on business four or five days each week. A few weeks ago I had a 48 hour test drive on a car and I paid for parking in Glasgow via the RingGo app as usual, but I forgot to register the car I was test driving.
No surprise that I returned to a PCN. So, I submitted an appeal to Glasgow City Council and explained it was a genuine mistake, that I had paid for parking in good faith but simply forgot to register the car I was test driving that day on the RingGo app.
They've replied and told me "there are no grounds to cancel this Penalty Charge Notice".
That seems a bit unfair to me. It was a genuine mistake. I can prove, if required, that my own car wasn't in Glasgow that day and that I was indeed test driving another car.
Do you think I have a case here? Next step is formal representation and then an appeal via an independent parking adjudicator.
I know it's a lot of hassle for £30 but Its the principal. I park in Glasgow one or two days every week and this seems really unfair to me.
No surprise that I returned to a PCN. So, I submitted an appeal to Glasgow City Council and explained it was a genuine mistake, that I had paid for parking in good faith but simply forgot to register the car I was test driving that day on the RingGo app.
They've replied and told me "there are no grounds to cancel this Penalty Charge Notice".
That seems a bit unfair to me. It was a genuine mistake. I can prove, if required, that my own car wasn't in Glasgow that day and that I was indeed test driving another car.
Do you think I have a case here? Next step is formal representation and then an appeal via an independent parking adjudicator.
I know it's a lot of hassle for £30 but Its the principal. I park in Glasgow one or two days every week and this seems really unfair to me.
Look at it another way.
It is your responsibility to inform the parking company which car you have parked. It is reasonable to do so and also reasonable to expect a parking company to find out who has parked a car without paying.
You parked a car that apparently didn't have a payment allocated to it. Perhaps you consider that you paying on the wrong car ID alleviates the penalty, at least that's what you say.
Now consider that the parking company have had to examine why the car you parked has no payment against it. They have to raise a case, make enquiries, trace you, issue charges, etc. That costs them so they want that cost back, their parking charge and, no doubt some revenue to run the business.
So why do you reckon your error should cost the parking company and not you?
It is your responsibility to inform the parking company which car you have parked. It is reasonable to do so and also reasonable to expect a parking company to find out who has parked a car without paying.
You parked a car that apparently didn't have a payment allocated to it. Perhaps you consider that you paying on the wrong car ID alleviates the penalty, at least that's what you say.
Now consider that the parking company have had to examine why the car you parked has no payment against it. They have to raise a case, make enquiries, trace you, issue charges, etc. That costs them so they want that cost back, their parking charge and, no doubt some revenue to run the business.
So why do you reckon your error should cost the parking company and not you?
I did roughly the same thing in a carpark in Didcot. It was early in the morning and I picked the wrong car. A bit dim of me, but also got ticketed. I did the same as you, asked if it could be cancelled as, you I'd paid for parking in good faith, and as with you, I got told they wouldn't.
They claimed that the "contract" says you need to provide the correct details of the car, which I hadn't.
So the reality is they're not charging you/me for paying/not paying for parking, but more breach of one of their terms of parking (like being over a line, over staying, trading from the carpark etc).
I didn't feel like fighting it, as clearly I had made a mistake, no matter how daft the situation.
They claimed that the "contract" says you need to provide the correct details of the car, which I hadn't.
So the reality is they're not charging you/me for paying/not paying for parking, but more breach of one of their terms of parking (like being over a line, over staying, trading from the carpark etc).
I didn't feel like fighting it, as clearly I had made a mistake, no matter how daft the situation.
@phil4 & Tablecloth, this is a council ticket, not a company, so there is no breach of contract.
@OP you should be able to go to London Tribunals - formerly PATAS - to get this independently reviewed. In the old PATAS days, they would look at every aspect of the ticket and whether it was legally enforceable (whether the motorist raised that point or not), and took a fairly reasonable, common sense approach to such things. I hope that London Tribunals are taking the same approach, you'd have to be a bit of an a
hole to suggest this was in any way deserved.
Probably worth a quick post on pepipoo to get some specific up-to-date advice though.
@OP you should be able to go to London Tribunals - formerly PATAS - to get this independently reviewed. In the old PATAS days, they would look at every aspect of the ticket and whether it was legally enforceable (whether the motorist raised that point or not), and took a fairly reasonable, common sense approach to such things. I hope that London Tribunals are taking the same approach, you'd have to be a bit of an a
hole to suggest this was in any way deserved.Probably worth a quick post on pepipoo to get some specific up-to-date advice though.
kiethton said:
The £130 London fines would make me think twice but as it's just £30 I'd appeal it and take it from there - nothing to lose 
The fine is held at the 14 day 50% discount for the period of appeal and then a further 14 days if the decline so first stage appeal costs nothing and delays payment if nothing else. spikyone said:
@phil4 & Tablecloth, this is a council ticket, not a company, so there is no breach of contract.
@OP you should be able to go to London Tribunals - formerly PATAS - to get this independently reviewed. In the old PATAS days, they would look at every aspect of the ticket and whether it was legally enforceable (whether the motorist raised that point or not), and took a fairly reasonable, common sense approach to such things. I hope that London Tribunals are taking the same approach, you'd have to be a bit of an ahole to suggest this was in any way deserved.
Probably worth a quick post on pepipoo to get some specific up-to-date advice though.
London Tribunals won't be much good for a Glasgow PCN!@OP you should be able to go to London Tribunals - formerly PATAS - to get this independently reviewed. In the old PATAS days, they would look at every aspect of the ticket and whether it was legally enforceable (whether the motorist raised that point or not), and took a fairly reasonable, common sense approach to such things. I hope that London Tribunals are taking the same approach, you'd have to be a bit of an a
hole to suggest this was in any way deserved.Probably worth a quick post on pepipoo to get some specific up-to-date advice though.
Tablecloth said:
Look at it another way.
It is your responsibility to inform the parking company which car you have parked. It is reasonable to do so and also reasonable to expect a parking company to find out who has parked a car without paying.
You parked a car that apparently didn't have a payment allocated to it. Perhaps you consider that you paying on the wrong car ID alleviates the penalty, at least that's what you say.
Now consider that the parking company have had to examine why the car you parked has no payment against it. They have to raise a case, make enquiries, trace you, issue charges, etc. That costs them so they want that cost back, their parking charge and, no doubt some revenue to run the business.
So why do you reckon your error should cost the parking company and not you?
I agree with the sentiment here. ^^It is your responsibility to inform the parking company which car you have parked. It is reasonable to do so and also reasonable to expect a parking company to find out who has parked a car without paying.
You parked a car that apparently didn't have a payment allocated to it. Perhaps you consider that you paying on the wrong car ID alleviates the penalty, at least that's what you say.
Now consider that the parking company have had to examine why the car you parked has no payment against it. They have to raise a case, make enquiries, trace you, issue charges, etc. That costs them so they want that cost back, their parking charge and, no doubt some revenue to run the business.
So why do you reckon your error should cost the parking company and not you?
Its you who has made a mistake, but the company has had to spend time and money (a person, office space, pensions, postage etc) in contacting you about it.
Ok, everyone can agree that you did pay parking for a car that wasn't there, so parking was paid. But, you have still created a scenario where somebody else is out of pocket, through no fault of these. That's easily £30.
These posts always attract the 'I don't care its a thieving car parking operator, they are scum etc', but when you take away that emotion, the reality is that if the individual doesn't pay their own way, then everybody else has to, in increase parking costs.
And everybody else has remembered they aren't in a different car today.
Edinburger said:
I use RingGo most days to pay for parking as I travel by car on business four or five days each week. A few weeks ago I had a 48 hour test drive on a car and I paid for parking in Glasgow via the RingGo app as usual, but I forgot to register the car I was test driving.
No surprise that I returned to a PCN. So, I submitted an appeal to Glasgow City Council and explained it was a genuine mistake, that I had paid for parking in good faith but simply forgot to register the car I was test driving that day on the RingGo app.
They've replied and told me "there are no grounds to cancel this Penalty Charge Notice".
That seems a bit unfair to me. It was a genuine mistake. I can prove, if required, that my own car wasn't in Glasgow that day and that I was indeed test driving another car.
Do you think I have a case here? Next step is formal representation and then an appeal via an independent parking adjudicator.
I know it's a lot of hassle for £30 but Its the principal. I park in Glasgow one or two days every week and this seems really unfair to me.
Are you able t produce a hard opg print of the receipt?No surprise that I returned to a PCN. So, I submitted an appeal to Glasgow City Council and explained it was a genuine mistake, that I had paid for parking in good faith but simply forgot to register the car I was test driving that day on the RingGo app.
They've replied and told me "there are no grounds to cancel this Penalty Charge Notice".
That seems a bit unfair to me. It was a genuine mistake. I can prove, if required, that my own car wasn't in Glasgow that day and that I was indeed test driving another car.
Do you think I have a case here? Next step is formal representation and then an appeal via an independent parking adjudicator.
I know it's a lot of hassle for £30 but Its the principal. I park in Glasgow one or two days every week and this seems really unfair to me.
SantaBarbara said:
Moral of the story. Continue to use Cash for parking, and retain all your records in a wallet
Two do not park where you are monitored by Cameras and parking management companies
You could also just park in accordance with the very simple requirements? That would be much easier IMHOTwo do not park where you are monitored by Cameras and parking management companies
matchmaker said:
spikyone said:
@phil4 & Tablecloth, this is a council ticket, not a company, so there is no breach of contract.
@OP you should be able to go to London Tribunals - formerly PATAS - to get this independently reviewed. In the old PATAS days, they would look at every aspect of the ticket and whether it was legally enforceable (whether the motorist raised that point or not), and took a fairly reasonable, common sense approach to such things. I hope that London Tribunals are taking the same approach, you'd have to be a bit of an ahole to suggest this was in any way deserved.
Probably worth a quick post on pepipoo to get some specific up-to-date advice though.
London Tribunals won't be much good for a Glasgow PCN!@OP you should be able to go to London Tribunals - formerly PATAS - to get this independently reviewed. In the old PATAS days, they would look at every aspect of the ticket and whether it was legally enforceable (whether the motorist raised that point or not), and took a fairly reasonable, common sense approach to such things. I hope that London Tribunals are taking the same approach, you'd have to be a bit of an a
hole to suggest this was in any way deserved.Probably worth a quick post on pepipoo to get some specific up-to-date advice though.
(FWIW, London Councils previously ran the POPLA service, which applied nationally, so their remit is not limited to London despite the name. My mistake either way - shows the value of getting proper advice in any case
)spikyone said:
Apologies - it should be Traffic Penalty Tribunals. PATAS did indeed become London Tribunals, but it appears that TPT is a separate non-London appeal route.
Another good try but in addition to Glasgow not being in London neither is it in England or Wales. The correct route for the OP to appeal would be via The Parking and Bus Lane Tribunal for Scotland (the clue's in the name ). Cat
Cat said:
spikyone said:
Apologies - it should be Traffic Penalty Tribunals. PATAS did indeed become London Tribunals, but it appears that TPT is a separate non-London appeal route.
Another good try but in addition to Glasgow not being in London neither is it in England or Wales. The correct route for the OP to appeal would be via The Parking and Bus Lane Tribunal for Scotland (the clue's in the name ). Cat
Damn those Scots!
Edinburger said:
I use RingGo most days to pay for parking as I travel by car on business four or five days each week. A few weeks ago I had a 48 hour test drive on a car and I paid for parking in Glasgow via the RingGo app as usual, but I forgot to register the car I was test driving.
No surprise that I returned to a PCN. So, I submitted an appeal to Glasgow City Council and explained it was a genuine mistake, that I had paid for parking in good faith but simply forgot to register the car I was test driving that day on the RingGo app.
They've replied and told me "there are no grounds to cancel this Penalty Charge Notice".
That seems a bit unfair to me. It was a genuine mistake. I can prove, if required, that my own car wasn't in Glasgow that day and that I was indeed test driving another car.
Do you think I have a case here? Next step is formal representation and then an appeal via an independent parking adjudicator.
I know it's a lot of hassle for £30 but Its the principal. I park in Glasgow one or two days every week and this seems really unfair to me.
Do you know where the payment went? Is there an Audit trailNo surprise that I returned to a PCN. So, I submitted an appeal to Glasgow City Council and explained it was a genuine mistake, that I had paid for parking in good faith but simply forgot to register the car I was test driving that day on the RingGo app.
They've replied and told me "there are no grounds to cancel this Penalty Charge Notice".
That seems a bit unfair to me. It was a genuine mistake. I can prove, if required, that my own car wasn't in Glasgow that day and that I was indeed test driving another car.
Do you think I have a case here? Next step is formal representation and then an appeal via an independent parking adjudicator.
I know it's a lot of hassle for £30 but Its the principal. I park in Glasgow one or two days every week and this seems really unfair to me.
spikyone said:
@phil4 & Tablecloth, this is a council ticket, not a company, so there is no breach of contract.
@OP you should be able to go to London Tribunals - formerly PATAS - to get this independently reviewed. In the old PATAS days, they would look at every aspect of the ticket and whether it was legally enforceable (whether the motorist raised that point or not), and took a fairly reasonable, common sense approach to such things. I hope that London Tribunals are taking the same approach, you'd have to be a bit of an ahole to suggest this was in any way deserved.
Probably worth a quick post on pepipoo to get some specific up-to-date advice though.
That makes no difference whatsoever to my point.@OP you should be able to go to London Tribunals - formerly PATAS - to get this independently reviewed. In the old PATAS days, they would look at every aspect of the ticket and whether it was legally enforceable (whether the motorist raised that point or not), and took a fairly reasonable, common sense approach to such things. I hope that London Tribunals are taking the same approach, you'd have to be a bit of an a
hole to suggest this was in any way deserved.Probably worth a quick post on pepipoo to get some specific up-to-date advice though.
The OP didn't make it plain to the parking operator that there was a required fee for the vehicle that the OP parked. The parking operator has now incurred an expense to find out what has occurred.
Through no fault of the parking operator the OP has cased them to determine whether the fee was paid.
A car was parked; that fee was paid. Because of the mistake of the OP, nobody else, there has been an necessary cost to the parking company.
While I detest unscrupulous parking companies like described on the TV last night; they should be put up against a wall and shot for some of their antics, that said, when someone parks outside of the terms expected then they should admit they are at fault and pay the cost.
The Surveyor said:
SantaBarbara said:
Moral of the story. Continue to use Cash for parking, and retain all your records in a wallet
Two do not park where you are monitored by Cameras and parking management companies
You could also just park in accordance with the very simple requirements? That would be much easier IMHOTwo do not park where you are monitored by Cameras and parking management companies
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