HDI engine transplant (hypothetical)

[mper]

HI all,


IF there is such a thing as a Peugeot/Citroen boffin, you may have noticed that:

The Peugeot 207 and 307 were available with the 1.4HDI, 1.6HDI and 2.0HDI engines
The Peugeot 407 was available with the 1.6 and 2.0 HDI engines (I am 99% sure they also had this model with petrol engines with 2.2 and 2.7l displacement)

Fast forward to the current generation, and we have these models with these HDI engines:
208: 1.4 and 1.6
308: 1.6 and 2.0
508: 1.6 and 2.0

Let's suppose that:
1) I don't care about resale value or whether there is a market for my little hypothetical project;
2) I'm interested in motorway cruising with low fuel spend rather than high speed and acceleration;
3) I'm not too worried about having a power-to-weight ratio from the 1970s


What do you think would be the challenges in getting a 1.4HDI engine from a Peugeot 207/307 to go on a heavier car, such as the 407?

Bonus question: some 407s have 6-speed gearboxes and I don't think the 1.4HDI ever had more than 5. How could this work out?

[jeremyh1]

You would need to change the box as well as the engine
The first challenge would be you would have is to manufacture your own mounting bolts
Driveshafts maybe too long/too short.
Plumbing wont fit although this would not be the biggest challenge and could be over come
Anything that is solid and goes on the the engine / box would need to be remanafactured ie gear linkages

All in all and pain in the ass job .

[jeremyh1]

I forgot to mention you would have an under powered car and the fuel consumption would be high

[GreenV8S]

If fuel consumption is the main goal, I wonder whether it'd be easier to change the gearing instead. Can you find some bigger wheels?

[E-bmw]

mper said:

I'm interested in motorway cruising with low fuel spend rather than high speed and acceleration;

Simple answer, drive more economically, save £500 on parts, 174 hours of labour & don't affect the resale value.

The end!

[anonymous-user]

I would imagine it being far easier and cheaper to consider a different car altogether

[sparkythecat]

If fuel economy on motorways is your priority, get yourself over to the hypermiling forums. The boring skinflints over there will induct you into their frugal and parsimonious ways.

On the way, hand in your PH membership badge, you miserable, miserly git.

Here are some of their tips to get you started

http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/hypermiling/hypermilin...

Edited by sparkythecat on Wednesday 16th August 00:28

[jeremyh1]

sparkythecat said:

If fuel economy on motorways is your priority, get yourself over to the hypermiling forums. The boring skinflints over there will induct you into their frugal and parsimonious ways.

On the way, hand in your PH membership badge, you miserable, miserly git.

Here are some of their tips to get you started

http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/hypermiling/hypermilin...

Edited by sparkythecat on Wednesday 16th August 00:28

But the people on hypermiling have more money than all you bearded shelve stackers on here that are about to go bankrupt

[mper]

sparkythecat said:

If fuel economy on motorways is your priority, get yourself over to the hypermiling forums. The boring skinflints over there will induct you into their frugal and parsimonious ways.

On the way, hand in your PH membership badge, you miserable, miserly git.

Here are some of their tips to get you started

http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/hypermiling/hypermilin...

Edited by sparkythecat on Wednesday 16th August 00:28

Thanks

I thought this Peugeot 508 with 1.4hdi machine would be some sort of technical challenge that would appeal to others, but maybe NOT!

[mper]

E-bmw said:

Simple answer, drive more economically, save £500 on parts, 174 hours of labour & don't affect the resale value.

The end!

Valid point, of course.

However, when I look at the numbers from other cars from other decades, it makes me wonder if there is an irreconcilable difference between what the manufacturers need to sell (ie: safer cars, more sales and more profit year on year) vs. what a miserly git(tm) needs to keep fuel consumption on check.
The way I see it, it could be that the newer cars are all heavier because they have more passenger protection bits and pieces, and bigger cars can attract higher prices than small cars. Marketing arms races aside, 70bhp would still get the thing from A to B!


According to the Wikipedia the Peugeot 407 (the 2.0 HDI) has a weight over 250kgs over what the heaviest Peugeot 207 (I presume will be the 2.0HDI too). The 407 with 1.6HDI engine is lighter, with 1440kgs, 200kgs above the heaviest 207, 100kgs above the 307 1.6hdi.
The difference is what? 2, 3 passengers?


With 68bhp (ROAR!), the 207 1.4 does not lose in power/weight compared larger Peugeots of the 1980s, like the 605 or of the 504. (sources: https://www.auto-data.net/en/?f=showCar&car_id... And yes, I did compare torque numbers, not just bhp.


Sooooo.... I wondered if a smaller modern engine on a heavier frame would be *that* horrible for fuel consumption, considering that after the initial acceleration is done, the cruising part on the motorway is relatively frugal.

[jeremyh1]

mper said:

Thanks

I thought this Peugeot 508 with 1.4hdi machine would be some sort of technical challenge that would appeal to others, but maybe NOT!

If you looking for technical opinions don't ask on this site
If people want to talk about cars that's fine
The bad thing is people think they know everything there is to know about cars on this site but when it really matters when your knowledge of cars gets really tested They don't have the expertise, intelligence or problem solving abilities to give a viable account of their qualification to shout their mouths off !
The fool will always avoid the problem solving questions by putting others down This site has many many examples of this
The fool will always want to be heard and hopes everybody will notice him .The fool wont have a clue what to do when a repair needs doing .

[imagineifyeswill]

I cant imagine why anyone would want to do a conversion like this, the 2.0HDI is a brilliant engine and quite reasonable on fuel even in the 407, whilst the 1.4/1.6HDI is a bloody terrible engine which seems to be fitted to practically everything now.

[GreenV8S]

If fuel economy is still your goal, another approach to consider is an LPG conversion. I expect it would be easier than an engine transplant, and hopefully wouldn't compromise the performance - in fact I hear that forced induction works particularly well with LPG.

[E-bmw]

You can't strictly do an LPG conversion on a diesel engined car, it needs a spark to ignite it, but can make do with burning in the flame front created by the igniting diesel.

Thus what you can do is fit an LPG assist kit, which (as the name implies) injects a small amount of LPG, which is cheaper, into the combustion air to assist burning once ignited by compression.

Unfortunately it isn't cheap, doesn't help economy by a large amount, although is typically very good for emissions & better on power.