Using road bike on gravel
Discussion
So I won free entry to a Gravel Fondo.
It is this one...http://www.gravelfondo.de/events/upcoming-events/votec-gravel-fondo-2017/
Description "The VOTEC Gravel Fondo offers a one of a kind experience on a multitude of surfaces: from tarmac, to gravel, to single trail sections. The eventa will provide a unique mix of cycling camaraderie, breathtaking views and real competition on curated STRAVA-Segments. "
The event is run over 2 days in the Black Forest region of Germany. Saturday is 85 km with 2200 m of climbing, while Sunday is 60 km with 1700 m of climbing.
I have a road bike, it is a 2012 Rose Xeon RS. It is a lightweight aluminium road bike, the frame itself weighs less than a kilo, the forks about 330g, so it is not far from a good carbon frame weight. I don't want to wreck it. I also don't want to buy a gravel or cyclocross bike for this one event. I've looked into renting one, but to no avail.
Yesterday, as an experiment, I fitted 28mm Specialized Espoir tyres to my bike, I fitted them to my Vision Team 30 training wheels, which have an inner width of 18.9 mm and outer 23.7 mm. This tyre wheel combo fitted the frame and fork with at least 2 mm clearance in all directions. I inflated them to 55psi in the front and 65psi in the rear and then I headed out for a test ride.
I rode 5km on asphalt, 5km on a mountain bike trail and 10km on fine gravel. The bike rode really well...stable and comfortable. I struggled a little with traction on steep (15%+) uphill gravel sections and I was scared/nervous on steep gravel descents. On flowing singletrack the bike was surprisingly competent...fast even. On asphalt it felt slower than my normal road set up. I had some fairly noisy chain slap at times, so I might wrap the chainstay with an old inner tube to protect it.
So, has anyone tried using their road bikes on gravel events? Did it survive? Any advice at all, for example regarding frame protection?
Regarding frame/fork durability I rode 600 km on Irish roads a couple of weeks ago...subjectively it was often comparable to what I experienced yesterday. I generally aim to ride over rough ground with a light grip of the bars and weight off the saddle, in an attempt to reduce peak forces on the wheels/tyres.
Me and my bike...with 23mm road tyres on my "good" wheels.
It is this one...http://www.gravelfondo.de/events/upcoming-events/votec-gravel-fondo-2017/
Description "The VOTEC Gravel Fondo offers a one of a kind experience on a multitude of surfaces: from tarmac, to gravel, to single trail sections. The eventa will provide a unique mix of cycling camaraderie, breathtaking views and real competition on curated STRAVA-Segments. "
The event is run over 2 days in the Black Forest region of Germany. Saturday is 85 km with 2200 m of climbing, while Sunday is 60 km with 1700 m of climbing.
I have a road bike, it is a 2012 Rose Xeon RS. It is a lightweight aluminium road bike, the frame itself weighs less than a kilo, the forks about 330g, so it is not far from a good carbon frame weight. I don't want to wreck it. I also don't want to buy a gravel or cyclocross bike for this one event. I've looked into renting one, but to no avail.
Yesterday, as an experiment, I fitted 28mm Specialized Espoir tyres to my bike, I fitted them to my Vision Team 30 training wheels, which have an inner width of 18.9 mm and outer 23.7 mm. This tyre wheel combo fitted the frame and fork with at least 2 mm clearance in all directions. I inflated them to 55psi in the front and 65psi in the rear and then I headed out for a test ride.
I rode 5km on asphalt, 5km on a mountain bike trail and 10km on fine gravel. The bike rode really well...stable and comfortable. I struggled a little with traction on steep (15%+) uphill gravel sections and I was scared/nervous on steep gravel descents. On flowing singletrack the bike was surprisingly competent...fast even. On asphalt it felt slower than my normal road set up. I had some fairly noisy chain slap at times, so I might wrap the chainstay with an old inner tube to protect it.
So, has anyone tried using their road bikes on gravel events? Did it survive? Any advice at all, for example regarding frame protection?
Regarding frame/fork durability I rode 600 km on Irish roads a couple of weeks ago...subjectively it was often comparable to what I experienced yesterday. I generally aim to ride over rough ground with a light grip of the bars and weight off the saddle, in an attempt to reduce peak forces on the wheels/tyres.
Me and my bike...with 23mm road tyres on my "good" wheels.
I frequently hit bridleways, byways, fire roads and even the more benign single-track bits on my Trek Emonda wearing standard road tyres. Currently 25mm Continental Grand Prix 4000 SIIs. Previously I rode a Merida Road-Race aluminium bike (the white one in the photos), and I also have a 1996 Falcon Pro-Line steel beast (the blue one).
Sometimes you are slower than the MTBers and 'crossers because you lack traction and corner grip. Other times you are faster, because if your line selection is good and the gravel fairly fine and evenly laid you just 'float' over it and higher road bike gearing keeps your speed up. Other times there's almost nowt in it between my best efforts on a full suspension MTB with 2.1" knobbly tyres and the road bike.
That's all in good weather obviously. Come the rain, and staying upright gets tougher. You have to slow far more for corners, the rear end squirms up gradients, and you feel like riding a lot less without the protection of mudguards and decent winter MTB shoes.
If it's muddy? Forget it. Then the slick tyres and narrow profile cause you all sorts of problems, the frame gets clagged with mud, and you feel like you're pedaling through treacle.
As for damage? I've had a double pinch-flat from hitting one large stone hidden in a smooth gravel road. I've come off on corners. But so far I've not caused any apparent physical damage to the bike from riding it away from sealed surfaces. In fact all the paint chips and cable rub on my bike are attributable to incidents that occurred on pure road rides.
I can't say that you won't damage your bike on such trails, but if it were me I'd take the risk...
Trek Emonda at the top of Combe Gibbet - up a chalk byway, and across the grassy hilltop.
Cheeky byway shortcut looking for a 'viewpoint'.
My old steel road bike, at a hilltop trig point - possibly at the Devil's Punchbowl.
A byway too far - inadvisable muddy, unplanned shortcut that I wouldn't do again.
Sometimes 'proper' tarmac roads can be worse though...
May 2015 - The PH TdF ride. I'd just done a lap of a BMX pump track on the Emonda just up the road from this cafe.
"It's all downhill from here!" - I nabbed a 6th place overall 'trophy' on Strava for this bridleway. Put a few local MTB-ers' noses out of joint too.
I'd been led up this way by a Strava route. Further along, it got rougher. But I was as close to tarmac going forward as I would have been if I turned around. Nothing ventured...
Sometimes avoiding puddles is more trouble than going through them...
...but it washes off in the end!
Then you get back up and give it another go. This time on the course for one of the local Gorrick MTB races...
So which way shall we go then?
Believe it or not, this is actually a NSL road. It cost me a gashed knee getting started again part way up this hill. Beautifully resurfaced now though.
The army's "High Speed Off Road Test track" at Long Valley, Aldershot. Filming location for the Die Another Day intro hovercraft chase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDcfBHBNhuo
Life's a beach!
That's probably enough to be getting on with - have I convinced you yet?
There are a few more decent pictures of my repeated idiocy that I was trying to find, but I never give them searchable file names, so I'll have to leave it at that.
Sometimes you are slower than the MTBers and 'crossers because you lack traction and corner grip. Other times you are faster, because if your line selection is good and the gravel fairly fine and evenly laid you just 'float' over it and higher road bike gearing keeps your speed up. Other times there's almost nowt in it between my best efforts on a full suspension MTB with 2.1" knobbly tyres and the road bike.
That's all in good weather obviously. Come the rain, and staying upright gets tougher. You have to slow far more for corners, the rear end squirms up gradients, and you feel like riding a lot less without the protection of mudguards and decent winter MTB shoes.
If it's muddy? Forget it. Then the slick tyres and narrow profile cause you all sorts of problems, the frame gets clagged with mud, and you feel like you're pedaling through treacle.
As for damage? I've had a double pinch-flat from hitting one large stone hidden in a smooth gravel road. I've come off on corners. But so far I've not caused any apparent physical damage to the bike from riding it away from sealed surfaces. In fact all the paint chips and cable rub on my bike are attributable to incidents that occurred on pure road rides.
I can't say that you won't damage your bike on such trails, but if it were me I'd take the risk...
Trek Emonda at the top of Combe Gibbet - up a chalk byway, and across the grassy hilltop.
Cheeky byway shortcut looking for a 'viewpoint'.
My old steel road bike, at a hilltop trig point - possibly at the Devil's Punchbowl.
A byway too far - inadvisable muddy, unplanned shortcut that I wouldn't do again.
Sometimes 'proper' tarmac roads can be worse though...
May 2015 - The PH TdF ride. I'd just done a lap of a BMX pump track on the Emonda just up the road from this cafe.
"It's all downhill from here!" - I nabbed a 6th place overall 'trophy' on Strava for this bridleway. Put a few local MTB-ers' noses out of joint too.
I'd been led up this way by a Strava route. Further along, it got rougher. But I was as close to tarmac going forward as I would have been if I turned around. Nothing ventured...
Sometimes avoiding puddles is more trouble than going through them...
...but it washes off in the end!
Then you get back up and give it another go. This time on the course for one of the local Gorrick MTB races...
So which way shall we go then?
Believe it or not, this is actually a NSL road. It cost me a gashed knee getting started again part way up this hill. Beautifully resurfaced now though.
The army's "High Speed Off Road Test track" at Long Valley, Aldershot. Filming location for the Die Another Day intro hovercraft chase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDcfBHBNhuo
Life's a beach!
That's probably enough to be getting on with - have I convinced you yet?
There are a few more decent pictures of my repeated idiocy that I was trying to find, but I never give them searchable file names, so I'll have to leave it at that.
There is a 2 mile gravel old railway at the end of my commute or a nasty A road
I have a modern steel road bike, I fitted multi surface 28c tyres and use that on the gravel tracks fine and enjoy it
I dont take my carbon or alu road bikes, mainly as I don't want to risk writing off the tyres, I gamble the A road for them
The only issue I find is that some of the bigger stones and flnt really unsettle the bike and can ruin road tyres, I wouldn't fancy riding on gravel on less than 28c ,even though I used to use my single speed with 25c tyres fine
Also some of the stone chips can chip the paintwork of road bikes
FInally if you are using rim brakes watch for any mud sections, as I found my road bike impossible to ride on wet mud and chalk, not due to grip, but all the mud would jam in the calliper making the bike unrideable , obviously disks would resolve this
I have a modern steel road bike, I fitted multi surface 28c tyres and use that on the gravel tracks fine and enjoy it
I dont take my carbon or alu road bikes, mainly as I don't want to risk writing off the tyres, I gamble the A road for them
The only issue I find is that some of the bigger stones and flnt really unsettle the bike and can ruin road tyres, I wouldn't fancy riding on gravel on less than 28c ,even though I used to use my single speed with 25c tyres fine
Also some of the stone chips can chip the paintwork of road bikes
FInally if you are using rim brakes watch for any mud sections, as I found my road bike impossible to ride on wet mud and chalk, not due to grip, but all the mud would jam in the calliper making the bike unrideable , obviously disks would resolve this
yellowjack said:
I frequently hit bridleways, byways, fire roads and even the more benign single-track bits on my Trek Emonda wearing standard road tyres. Currently 25mm Continental Grand Prix 4000 SIIs. Previously I rode a Merida Road-Race aluminium bike (the white one in the photos), and I also have a 1996 Falcon Pro-Line steel beast (the blue one).
Sometimes you are slower than the MTBers and 'crossers because you lack traction and corner grip. Other times you are faster, because if your line selection is good and the gravel fairly fine and evenly laid you just 'float' over it and higher road bike gearing keeps your speed up. Other times there's almost nowt in it between my best efforts on a full suspension MTB with 2.1" knobbly tyres and the road bike.
That's all in good weather obviously. Come the rain, and staying upright gets tougher. You have to slow far more for corners, the rear end squirms up gradients, and you feel like riding a lot less without the protection of mudguards and decent winter MTB shoes.
If it's muddy? Forget it. Then the slick tyres and narrow profile cause you all sorts of problems, the frame gets clagged with mud, and you feel like you're pedaling through treacle.
As for damage? I've had a double pinch-flat from hitting one large stone hidden in a smooth gravel road. I've come off on corners. But so far I've not caused any apparent physical damage to the bike from riding it away from sealed surfaces. In fact all the paint chips and cable rub on my bike are attributable to incidents that occurred on pure road rides.
I can't say that you won't damage your bike on such trails, but if it were me I'd take the risk...
Trek Emonda at the top of Combe Gibbet - up a chalk byway, and across the grassy hilltop.
Cheeky byway shortcut looking for a 'viewpoint'.
My old steel road bike, at a hilltop trig point - possibly at the Devil's Punchbowl.
A byway too far - inadvisable muddy, unplanned shortcut that I wouldn't do again.
Sometimes 'proper' tarmac roads can be worse though...
May 2015 - The PH TdF ride. I'd just done a lap of a BMX pump track on the Emonda just up the road from this cafe.
"It's all downhill from here!" - I nabbed a 6th place overall 'trophy' on Strava for this bridleway. Put a few local MTB-ers' noses out of joint too.
I'd been led up this way by a Strava route. Further along, it got rougher. But I was as close to tarmac going forward as I would have been if I turned around. Nothing ventured...
Sometimes avoiding puddles is more trouble than going through them...
...but it washes off in the end!
Then you get back up and give it another go. This time on the course for one of the local Gorrick MTB races...
So which way shall we go then?
Believe it or not, this is actually a NSL road. It cost me a gashed knee getting started again part way up this hill. Beautifully resurfaced now though.
The army's "High Speed Off Road Test track" at Long Valley, Aldershot. Filming location for the Die Another Day intro hovercraft chase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDcfBHBNhuo
Life's a beach!
That's probably enough to be getting on with - have I convinced you yet?
There are a few more decent pictures of my repeated idiocy that I was trying to find, but I never give them searchable file names, so I'll have to leave it at that.
is that the flitch way in one of them?Sometimes you are slower than the MTBers and 'crossers because you lack traction and corner grip. Other times you are faster, because if your line selection is good and the gravel fairly fine and evenly laid you just 'float' over it and higher road bike gearing keeps your speed up. Other times there's almost nowt in it between my best efforts on a full suspension MTB with 2.1" knobbly tyres and the road bike.
That's all in good weather obviously. Come the rain, and staying upright gets tougher. You have to slow far more for corners, the rear end squirms up gradients, and you feel like riding a lot less without the protection of mudguards and decent winter MTB shoes.
If it's muddy? Forget it. Then the slick tyres and narrow profile cause you all sorts of problems, the frame gets clagged with mud, and you feel like you're pedaling through treacle.
As for damage? I've had a double pinch-flat from hitting one large stone hidden in a smooth gravel road. I've come off on corners. But so far I've not caused any apparent physical damage to the bike from riding it away from sealed surfaces. In fact all the paint chips and cable rub on my bike are attributable to incidents that occurred on pure road rides.
I can't say that you won't damage your bike on such trails, but if it were me I'd take the risk...
Trek Emonda at the top of Combe Gibbet - up a chalk byway, and across the grassy hilltop.
Cheeky byway shortcut looking for a 'viewpoint'.
My old steel road bike, at a hilltop trig point - possibly at the Devil's Punchbowl.
A byway too far - inadvisable muddy, unplanned shortcut that I wouldn't do again.
Sometimes 'proper' tarmac roads can be worse though...
May 2015 - The PH TdF ride. I'd just done a lap of a BMX pump track on the Emonda just up the road from this cafe.
"It's all downhill from here!" - I nabbed a 6th place overall 'trophy' on Strava for this bridleway. Put a few local MTB-ers' noses out of joint too.
I'd been led up this way by a Strava route. Further along, it got rougher. But I was as close to tarmac going forward as I would have been if I turned around. Nothing ventured...
Sometimes avoiding puddles is more trouble than going through them...
...but it washes off in the end!
Then you get back up and give it another go. This time on the course for one of the local Gorrick MTB races...
So which way shall we go then?
Believe it or not, this is actually a NSL road. It cost me a gashed knee getting started again part way up this hill. Beautifully resurfaced now though.
The army's "High Speed Off Road Test track" at Long Valley, Aldershot. Filming location for the Die Another Day intro hovercraft chase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDcfBHBNhuo
Life's a beach!
That's probably enough to be getting on with - have I convinced you yet?
There are a few more decent pictures of my repeated idiocy that I was trying to find, but I never give them searchable file names, so I'll have to leave it at that.
Bit of an update...fitted the 28mm Specialized Espoir tyres...went for a test ride on a dry trail with 70% gravel and 30% rocky, rooted ground. Worked bloody brilliant..I was slightly shocked that I got into 7th slot on Strava against Mountain bikes...
Then the next night I tried again, holy crap...it had rained the night before, it was (with my skill level) absolutely lethal...this time I was shocked I didn't fall off. The bike slithered around on everything, the rear tyre spun on every slighty steep incline.
So I hope my event is dry or flat and smooth, or I will be doing a lot of walking!
Then the next night I tried again, holy crap...it had rained the night before, it was (with my skill level) absolutely lethal...this time I was shocked I didn't fall off. The bike slithered around on everything, the rear tyre spun on every slighty steep incline.
So I hope my event is dry or flat and smooth, or I will be doing a lot of walking!
theplayingmantis said:
is that the flitch way in one of them?
I'll avoid re-quoting the whole lot and just answer the question...Yes. Rayne Station, on the Flitch Way. The 'old booking hall cafe'.
Don't ask me about the rest of the Flitch Way because I never rode it. The other end, near to where I worked, it was quite muddy, and often stuffed full of puddles and slippy mud, and in those days I didn't have a MTB in Essex with me so I stayed off it with my road bike. Slippery surface mud and standing water is just about the only time I won't (willingly) take a road bike off road...
yellowjack said:
theplayingmantis said:
is that the flitch way in one of them?
I'll avoid re-quoting the whole lot and just answer the question...Yes. Rayne Station, on the Flitch Way. The 'old booking hall cafe'.
Don't ask me about the rest of the Flitch Way because I never rode it. The other end, near to where I worked, it was quite muddy, and often stuffed full of puddles and slippy mud, and in those days I didn't have a MTB in Essex with me so I stayed off it with my road bike. Slippery surface mud and standing water is just about the only time I won't (willingly) take a road bike off road...
Kawasicki said:
Bit of an update...fitted the 28mm Specialized Espoir tyres...went for a test ride on a dry trail with 70% gravel and 30% rocky, rooted ground. Worked bloody brilliant..I was slightly shocked that I got into 7th slot on Strava against Mountain bikes...
Then the next night I tried again, holy crap...it had rained the night before, it was (with my skill level) absolutely lethal...this time I was shocked I didn't fall off. The bike slithered around on everything, the rear tyre spun on every slighty steep incline.
So I hope my event is dry or flat and smooth, or I will be doing a lot of walking!
Yeah pretty much what I found on gravel tracks with mud, great in summer in dry, bit bum clenching when wet/dampThen the next night I tried again, holy crap...it had rained the night before, it was (with my skill level) absolutely lethal...this time I was shocked I didn't fall off. The bike slithered around on everything, the rear tyre spun on every slighty steep incline.
So I hope my event is dry or flat and smooth, or I will be doing a lot of walking!
theplayingmantis said:
thought so, did you do any of the tour route? its not a bad route if you wheel off once it gets epping way.
It was the day a whole bunch of PH pedalers did almost all of the TdF route from Cambridge to London... https://www.strava.com/activities/302099735So a bit of an update...
I did the event at the weekend. I didn't crash, the bike held up fine, but I would say it was not a good idea.
The weather was wet, the road/trail surface was unpredictable, as was the grip, and occasionally I was getting so thrashed around by the rough surface that I could no longer see properly...which was not good for my confidence. Climbing was a pain, because when it was steep (15-30%) I needed to stand, and when I stood in my normal position the rear tyre would slip on the loose surface regularly, so I had to shift while standing my weight rearwards, which was way more tiring than my normal steep road hill climbing position. I was reasonably destroyed after the two days.
I'll post a couple of pics tomorrow!
I did the event at the weekend. I didn't crash, the bike held up fine, but I would say it was not a good idea.
The weather was wet, the road/trail surface was unpredictable, as was the grip, and occasionally I was getting so thrashed around by the rough surface that I could no longer see properly...which was not good for my confidence. Climbing was a pain, because when it was steep (15-30%) I needed to stand, and when I stood in my normal position the rear tyre would slip on the loose surface regularly, so I had to shift while standing my weight rearwards, which was way more tiring than my normal steep road hill climbing position. I was reasonably destroyed after the two days.
I'll post a couple of pics tomorrow!
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