Daily driver - Ultima GTR or 993TT?
Discussion
Ok, not to stir up the hornet's nest but this is the dilemna facing me at present.
I think i am going to sell my 993, and if i do then i will get one of the two cars mentioned. I have already dicsounted the Noble M12 as i can not afford to spend thousands on servicing every 6000 miles.
I am capable of replacing disks and pads, etc, so my 993 gets standard 12k and 24k services at my local (well respected) indie, and i know a 993tt wouldn't cost much more to service or maintain then my 993 C2 (or previous 993 C4S). The ultima has a fairly agricultural (read simple and inexpensive) small block V8, so my biggest expenses are likely to be tyres and fuel.
Please please help!!! I am soooo confused.
VS
I think i am going to sell my 993, and if i do then i will get one of the two cars mentioned. I have already dicsounted the Noble M12 as i can not afford to spend thousands on servicing every 6000 miles.
I am capable of replacing disks and pads, etc, so my 993 gets standard 12k and 24k services at my local (well respected) indie, and i know a 993tt wouldn't cost much more to service or maintain then my 993 C2 (or previous 993 C4S). The ultima has a fairly agricultural (read simple and inexpensive) small block V8, so my biggest expenses are likely to be tyres and fuel.
Please please help!!! I am soooo confused.
VS
Interesting choice Pete,,,,is an Ultima viable as a daily driver? Purely from the point of view of speedbumps and car parks etc?
Personally I would make your C2 lighter and add Pss9 rather than go for the lardy TT....seems more of a GT car where the Ultima is clearly a sports/race car.
Personally I would make your C2 lighter and add Pss9 rather than go for the lardy TT....seems more of a GT car where the Ultima is clearly a sports/race car.
If it's everyday then definitely go for the TT. I know i'm biased because i've owned a few, but I used to commute to Uxbridge and Reading on a daily basis from Warwickshire and found the TT superb. I had it marginally tweaked in the handling department (it was already massively tweaked in the engine dept) and then found it a useful trackday weapon as well.
It was not as fast on the track as my 300+bhp 964RS but then the RS was a B*stard in traffic and on hot days.
993TT great allrounder (even in the wet)
IMHO
It was not as fast on the track as my 300+bhp 964RS but then the RS was a B*stard in traffic and on hot days.
993TT great allrounder (even in the wet)
IMHO
Paul,
I'm not keen to modify. One of the reasons i can afford cars like these in the first place is because i don't tend to lose a lot of money. I get them serviced as they should be, but if they say i need new pads i do them myself. New discs? Same. New electric window motor? CV boot? Balljoint? Wheel bearing? No problem.
Modifying cars = throwing money away (in most cases).
Why spend 10k on my car, when i could sell it and spend the 10k on buying a standard TT? My car with 10k of mods would be worth very little more than it is now (witness supercharged 993 values, bearing in mind a supercharger costs 6.5k installed and running).
And yes, i appreciate that an Ultima isn't going to be as practical as a 993 TT, but while i am still unmarried and unencumbered with "mini me", i think i could spend a year with an Ultima and then get a 993TT for the long haul.
Do you see what i mean?
very confused, very sideways
I'm not keen to modify. One of the reasons i can afford cars like these in the first place is because i don't tend to lose a lot of money. I get them serviced as they should be, but if they say i need new pads i do them myself. New discs? Same. New electric window motor? CV boot? Balljoint? Wheel bearing? No problem.
Modifying cars = throwing money away (in most cases).
Why spend 10k on my car, when i could sell it and spend the 10k on buying a standard TT? My car with 10k of mods would be worth very little more than it is now (witness supercharged 993 values, bearing in mind a supercharger costs 6.5k installed and running).
And yes, i appreciate that an Ultima isn't going to be as practical as a 993 TT, but while i am still unmarried and unencumbered with "mini me", i think i could spend a year with an Ultima and then get a 993TT for the long haul.
Do you see what i mean?
very confused, very sideways
verysideways said:
And yes, i appreciate that an Ultima isn't going to be as practical as a 993 TT, but while i am still unmarried and unencumbered with "mini me", i think i could spend a year with an Ultima and then get a 993TT for the long haul.
Do you see what i mean?
very confused, very sideways
Seeing as you put it that way the Ultima would be blast. And you could probably do the majority of the maintenance yourself. I've only ever seen them @ Le Mans but they sound fantastic and certainly look the part, it would be worth experiencing that monstrous performance.
Hope I've not confused you any more
For me - a 993TT any day of the week.
Mind you have two "mini mes", and if you saw them, you'd realise what an accurate description that can be.
Equally we have a Passat Estate for family lugging. And its not quite big enough ... anyone with kids who can get by with a Porsche ...
... unless its a Cayenne of course.
And the Ultima is, well, downright ugly.
Mind you have two "mini mes", and if you saw them, you'd realise what an accurate description that can be.
Equally we have a Passat Estate for family lugging. And its not quite big enough ... anyone with kids who can get by with a Porsche ...
... unless its a Cayenne of course. And the Ultima is, well, downright ugly.
Pete, i totally agree with you on the modified front and re-sale...hence my current steed!
I really think the Ultima would be fun, if you can live with that level of practicality....a 993TT is a little dull to me in standard form....maybe the route to go is pick up an already modified porsche where someone else has paid the bills upfront?
I really think the Ultima would be fun, if you can live with that level of practicality....a 993TT is a little dull to me in standard form....maybe the route to go is pick up an already modified porsche where someone else has paid the bills upfront?
www.shirleys-garage.co.uk/Car_Photos/040912.jpg
She's for sale, my old steed so I know the history and took a hit from most of the depreciation. Basically it's nudging 500bhp, uprated turbos oil coolers etc..Brand New sports exhaust (sounds great)factory fit engine upgrades and body kit (GT2 front and rear spoilers) cargraphic wheels bought by me as original speedlines were crap.
Only downside is the guy who is selling it is the guy who bought it from me, he's hardly driven it, polished it loads but it needs a major, major service. I have spoken to the guy who maintained it for me and he reckons it needs £1500-00 to get it back up to mint mechanically.(12 sparkplugs @£80-00 each don't help) This allied to the unreasonable asking price explains why it hasn't sold for 6 months.
If you are interested I could try and negotiate with the present owner and see if he can make a more realistic price
Any way great car and I miss it terribly sob,sob,sob
She's for sale, my old steed so I know the history and took a hit from most of the depreciation. Basically it's nudging 500bhp, uprated turbos oil coolers etc..Brand New sports exhaust (sounds great)factory fit engine upgrades and body kit (GT2 front and rear spoilers) cargraphic wheels bought by me as original speedlines were crap.
Only downside is the guy who is selling it is the guy who bought it from me, he's hardly driven it, polished it loads but it needs a major, major service. I have spoken to the guy who maintained it for me and he reckons it needs £1500-00 to get it back up to mint mechanically.(12 sparkplugs @£80-00 each don't help) This allied to the unreasonable asking price explains why it hasn't sold for 6 months.
If you are interested I could try and negotiate with the present owner and see if he can make a more realistic price
Any way great car and I miss it terribly sob,sob,sob
VS....I don't know the chap personally, but BobM has had an Ultima (and Westfield) and now has a Mk2 996 GT3, and had prev other models Porsches according to his website... www.ultima-gtr.org.uk
He's prob in a good position to advise on living with an Ultima (lovely car, btw...would love one). Can be contacted via his site or PH presumably.
Spen
He's prob in a good position to advise on living with an Ultima (lovely car, btw...would love one). Can be contacted via his site or PH presumably.
Spen
Pete,
Having had one of the more, ahem, extreme Ultima GTRs I'd say that it also depends on the GTR you buy.
Like everything, the more 'focused' it gets with regards to power and handling, the less practical and potentially temperamental it will become.
If you buy (or spec. and have built) the right one - and for you, that's a road biased one with aircon, stereo, nicely trimmed interior etc. - then there's no reason that you couldn't use it every day and would love it.
But you'll need the right car.
The 993 is a safe bet. It is genuinely a day-to-day, practical performance car that comes ready to go. Thing is, I can't stand them and one Porsche looks very like another, TT or no. Is it 'special' enough? Get one when you're too old for a GTR IMHO
I considered a 993 after selling the GTR, but to be frank, I felt that it was less well built. Sacrilege to say that on here I guess, but wait 'til you've sat/driven in an Ultima before getting the flamethrowers out 
I mean, visible philips head screws holding trim on in the 993?
The Ultima will get you stared at wherever you go, will go like a bat out of hell and sound like bealzebub is having colonic irrigation with sulphuric acid. It's cheap to run (servicing in the whole time I had mine cost 50 quid!) and simple to look after. No dealer stamp required, but attention from the factory and a pre-sale check is worthwhile. Buy at the right price and selling should see most, if not all your outlay back.
Finally, build quality.
Now Porsche have a deservedly good reputation for build quality, however, from the 996 onwards that's arguable IMHO. The 'kit-car' tag for the Ultima is completely unjustified as far as I'm concerned. The only donor parts are the engine and gearbox, so if that's a qualification for being a kit, then most cars on the road today should also be called kits. An Audi/VW/Seat have more common parts than any Ultima, ever. 'Ah, but they're built in a factory' - true, but is that a GOOD thing? They're not called mass-produced cars for nothing after all. You can almost guarantee that any Ultima will have had a great deal of love, time and attention lavished on it and this will show in the build quality. Owners want them to be perfect and befitting the marque. To date, I've only seen one car that really did look crap and thankfully it's now gone to the scrapheap in the sky.
To put it into perspective. I looked at a Ferrari F355 earlier today. It was in excellent condition and a good, sound, honest car. But, the dash looks as if it's come from a 70s Rover, the switchgear was horrid and plastic, it was rusting in places and was well, just ordinary to me? Whenever I got into the GTR it was a sense of occasion and nothing, and I mean, NOTHING came close to it for the impact that it made on both me and onlookers. At Supercar Sunday last year, we were only just pipped at the post by a very Orange Murcielago for Supercar of the year which, at more than 3 times the price, made me extremely proud of my 'kit'
I wish I was further along with my Can-Am so I could show you what I mean, but I'm not. Especially as you're fairly local. Still, feel free to drop me a line or pop down to my workshop for some first hand ownership advice
>> Edited by Stig on Friday 8th April 13:53
Having had one of the more, ahem, extreme Ultima GTRs I'd say that it also depends on the GTR you buy.
Like everything, the more 'focused' it gets with regards to power and handling, the less practical and potentially temperamental it will become.
If you buy (or spec. and have built) the right one - and for you, that's a road biased one with aircon, stereo, nicely trimmed interior etc. - then there's no reason that you couldn't use it every day and would love it.
But you'll need the right car.
The 993 is a safe bet. It is genuinely a day-to-day, practical performance car that comes ready to go. Thing is, I can't stand them and one Porsche looks very like another, TT or no. Is it 'special' enough? Get one when you're too old for a GTR IMHO
I considered a 993 after selling the GTR, but to be frank, I felt that it was less well built. Sacrilege to say that on here I guess, but wait 'til you've sat/driven in an Ultima before getting the flamethrowers out I mean, visible philips head screws holding trim on in the 993? The Ultima will get you stared at wherever you go, will go like a bat out of hell and sound like bealzebub is having colonic irrigation with sulphuric acid. It's cheap to run (servicing in the whole time I had mine cost 50 quid!) and simple to look after. No dealer stamp required, but attention from the factory and a pre-sale check is worthwhile. Buy at the right price and selling should see most, if not all your outlay back.
Finally, build quality.
Now Porsche have a deservedly good reputation for build quality, however, from the 996 onwards that's arguable IMHO. The 'kit-car' tag for the Ultima is completely unjustified as far as I'm concerned. The only donor parts are the engine and gearbox, so if that's a qualification for being a kit, then most cars on the road today should also be called kits. An Audi/VW/Seat have more common parts than any Ultima, ever. 'Ah, but they're built in a factory' - true, but is that a GOOD thing? They're not called mass-produced cars for nothing after all. You can almost guarantee that any Ultima will have had a great deal of love, time and attention lavished on it and this will show in the build quality. Owners want them to be perfect and befitting the marque. To date, I've only seen one car that really did look crap and thankfully it's now gone to the scrapheap in the sky.
To put it into perspective. I looked at a Ferrari F355 earlier today. It was in excellent condition and a good, sound, honest car. But, the dash looks as if it's come from a 70s Rover, the switchgear was horrid and plastic, it was rusting in places and was well, just ordinary to me? Whenever I got into the GTR it was a sense of occasion and nothing, and I mean, NOTHING came close to it for the impact that it made on both me and onlookers. At Supercar Sunday last year, we were only just pipped at the post by a very Orange Murcielago for Supercar of the year which, at more than 3 times the price, made me extremely proud of my 'kit'
I wish I was further along with my Can-Am so I could show you what I mean, but I'm not. Especially as you're fairly local. Still, feel free to drop me a line or pop down to my workshop for some first hand ownership advice
>> Edited by Stig on Friday 8th April 13:53
Stig, i may have to come and visit you very very soon.
I have gone over both your GTR and Can Am sites with a very fine tooth comb and it's funny you should mention the car...
Look at the 31k red GTR in the classifieds. Nice low spec engine, G50 box, and no rear wing (which i prefer).
Spoken about adding aircon (which is my only reservation), and they reckon 8 hours if i take the body off, 16 hours if i leave it in place (central tub).
I will be in touch, for sure. Thanks Stig.
VS
I have gone over both your GTR and Can Am sites with a very fine tooth comb and it's funny you should mention the car...
Look at the 31k red GTR in the classifieds. Nice low spec engine, G50 box, and no rear wing (which i prefer).
Spoken about adding aircon (which is my only reservation), and they reckon 8 hours if i take the body off, 16 hours if i leave it in place (central tub).
I will be in touch, for sure. Thanks Stig.
VS
I built an Ultima GTR and owned it for a year, now have a GT3.
Have to say the 993TT will be vastly easier to live with on a daily basis. Depending on what spec of engine you get (mine 'only' had 479bhp) the Ultima will probably be faster in a straight line in the dry, but in the real world, and certainly in the wet the 993 will effectively be at least as fast. I certainly always felt my Evo 7 would be a quicker point to point car on the road.
There are a few issues, negatives first:
- creature comforts (none in the Ult, apart from aircon)
- noise (forget conversations with passengers)
- no electrickery to save you (no ABS/traction control etc). Even setting off in 2nd in the dry with 13" rear tyres you'll get a whole heap of wheelspin. When it does let go you won't believe how quick that Chevy lump will overtake you - you will not catch it
Don't ask how I know
- economy. I got about 15mpg if I behaved. You won't want to behave ...
- maintenance. As has been stated mechanically they'r e a doddle, what's a pain however is keeping all the bare aluminium silver rather than the white oxidised look!
- loads of attention, not for the shrinking violet.
positives:
- feels very special to drive - your bum's about 110mm from the black stuff
- noise (forget conversations with passengers)
- no electrickery to save you, a real driver's car
- fabulous posing car. Everywhere you stop your car will be surrounded, which sometimes is great fun, at others a bit of a pain. First time she went in it I dropped my missus off in town one Friday night and by the time she had the door open the car was surrounded about 3 people deep. The car has very wide, deep cills, she was wearing stillettos and is 5' 2" and getting out of the car is quite an art even when you're used to it. The crowd loved it, I nearly pi55ed myself. She didn't speak to me for a week.
Highlight of my ownership has to be the Le Mans trip last June. Driving through Arnage was a truly priceless experience. Worth having the car for that alone. I'm looking forward to going in the GT3 this June, but I know it won't be quite the same.
My advice would be if it's truly for a daily driver and you don't have another car, go for the 993TT. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
Have to say the 993TT will be vastly easier to live with on a daily basis. Depending on what spec of engine you get (mine 'only' had 479bhp) the Ultima will probably be faster in a straight line in the dry, but in the real world, and certainly in the wet the 993 will effectively be at least as fast. I certainly always felt my Evo 7 would be a quicker point to point car on the road.
There are a few issues, negatives first:
- creature comforts (none in the Ult, apart from aircon)
- noise (forget conversations with passengers)
- no electrickery to save you (no ABS/traction control etc). Even setting off in 2nd in the dry with 13" rear tyres you'll get a whole heap of wheelspin. When it does let go you won't believe how quick that Chevy lump will overtake you - you will not catch it
Don't ask how I know - economy. I got about 15mpg if I behaved. You won't want to behave ...
- maintenance. As has been stated mechanically they'r e a doddle, what's a pain however is keeping all the bare aluminium silver rather than the white oxidised look!
- loads of attention, not for the shrinking violet.
positives:
- feels very special to drive - your bum's about 110mm from the black stuff
- noise (forget conversations with passengers)
- no electrickery to save you, a real driver's car
- fabulous posing car. Everywhere you stop your car will be surrounded, which sometimes is great fun, at others a bit of a pain. First time she went in it I dropped my missus off in town one Friday night and by the time she had the door open the car was surrounded about 3 people deep. The car has very wide, deep cills, she was wearing stillettos and is 5' 2" and getting out of the car is quite an art even when you're used to it. The crowd loved it, I nearly pi55ed myself.
She didn't speak to me for a week. Highlight of my ownership has to be the Le Mans trip last June. Driving through Arnage was a truly priceless experience. Worth having the car for that alone. I'm looking forward to going in the GT3 this June, but I know it won't be quite the same.
My advice would be if it's truly for a daily driver and you don't have another car, go for the 993TT. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
I love Ultimas as many people here know. However, I would not consider one for a daily driver or consider them particularly inexpensive or easy to run. At least you can do a lot (or all) of the work yourself tho'. Like most supercars they need a certain of level attention to keep them running their best. And although the build quality is high, the hand built status means a little fettling along the way (well, mine will need a lot of fettling, I'm sure!).
The 993tt is a get-in-and-drive production car. Simple as that. Exposed screw heads or not
That said, I really hope you get an Ultima (maybe not as an everyday car though) as then there'll be another owner to go to LeMans with in 2007
>> Edited by domster on Friday 8th April 17:25
The 993tt is a get-in-and-drive production car. Simple as that. Exposed screw heads or not
That said, I really hope you get an Ultima (maybe not as an everyday car though) as then there'll be another owner to go to LeMans with in 2007
>> Edited by domster on Friday 8th April 17:25
Yup, fair comments all.
BobM has had experience of both, so is far better qualified than me to comment on the merits of both, but, this is partly the reason that I'm going so road biased with the Can-Am.
Almost everyone who builds and Ultima does so as a 'special' car. With uber power and not a lot else. It's my intention (whether it's successful or not remains to be seen) to make a Can-Am, which is as errr... 'normal' (read viable daily driver) as possible.
That means lots of sound deadening, interior trim mods, 'comfort' pack etc.etc.
There's no doubt that the Ultima will take a more 'committed' (not the mental sort ) individual to drive daily, but I know of at least one chap who happily does so and can be seen on his commute onto the M25 on a regular basis 
In short, if you just want to buy and drive something that you know will do the job, get the 993TT. But, it's going to cost a fair bit to run.
But if you want something a bit more special, then maybe the Ultima is for you?
Try and blag a test drive. Local Ultima owners Bluesatin (Guy) has a GTR which I'm sure he'd be happy to take you out in as does Crazyofcookham (Brian) who has a Can-Am.
Check them out, then decide
BobM has had experience of both, so is far better qualified than me to comment on the merits of both, but, this is partly the reason that I'm going so road biased with the Can-Am.
Almost everyone who builds and Ultima does so as a 'special' car. With uber power and not a lot else. It's my intention (whether it's successful or not remains to be seen) to make a Can-Am, which is as errr... 'normal' (read viable daily driver) as possible.
That means lots of sound deadening, interior trim mods, 'comfort' pack etc.etc.
There's no doubt that the Ultima will take a more 'committed' (not the mental sort
) individual to drive daily, but I know of at least one chap who happily does so and can be seen on his commute onto the M25 on a regular basis In short, if you just want to buy and drive something that you know will do the job, get the 993TT. But, it's going to cost a fair bit to run.
But if you want something a bit more special, then maybe the Ultima is for you?
Try and blag a test drive. Local Ultima owners Bluesatin (Guy) has a GTR which I'm sure he'd be happy to take you out in as does Crazyofcookham (Brian) who has a Can-Am.
Check them out, then decide
Looked at a GT40 yesterday - that definitely couldn't be used as an everyday car.
I am now thinking maybe of getting a banger for the 9 miles to work. Even then, the GT40 would not be an evening/weekend car, it's a special occasion car.
Off to see the "useable" Ultima now. I will report back when i return!
VS
I am now thinking maybe of getting a banger for the 9 miles to work. Even then, the GT40 would not be an evening/weekend car, it's a special occasion car.
Off to see the "useable" Ultima now. I will report back when i return!
VS
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