Is the owner of a leasehold a tenant?
Discussion
In what sense? A homeowner of a leasehold property is not a tenant in the sense of comparison to someone renting a property.
I own a lot of leasehold properties, which I rent out. I have zero rights as a tenant, I simply pay the freeholder a nominal annual ground rent and that's it. My tenants are the ones with all the rights and protection.
I own a lot of leasehold properties, which I rent out. I have zero rights as a tenant, I simply pay the freeholder a nominal annual ground rent and that's it. My tenants are the ones with all the rights and protection.
Domestic property.
The management company are not competent and have wasted a proportion of the service charge on work which was not necessary, while other items have gone unrepaired for months. Now they have started sending letters addressed to the "tenant". I'd like to know if I can return these letters to the sender unopened or if I am the tenant and so are correctly addressed. Sounds like I am a tenant.
The management company are not competent and have wasted a proportion of the service charge on work which was not necessary, while other items have gone unrepaired for months. Now they have started sending letters addressed to the "tenant". I'd like to know if I can return these letters to the sender unopened or if I am the tenant and so are correctly addressed. Sounds like I am a tenant.
creampuff said:
Domestic property.
The management company are not competent and have wasted a proportion of the service charge on work which was not necessary, while other items have gone unrepaired for months. Now they have started sending letters addressed to the "tenant". I'd like to know if I can return these letters to the sender unopened or if I am the tenant and so are correctly addressed. Sounds like I am a tenant.
Seems like you want to be awkward for the sake of it.The management company are not competent and have wasted a proportion of the service charge on work which was not necessary, while other items have gone unrepaired for months. Now they have started sending letters addressed to the "tenant". I'd like to know if I can return these letters to the sender unopened or if I am the tenant and so are correctly addressed. Sounds like I am a tenant.
Dogwatch said:
I would have thought a half-decent management company would address its correspondence to the individual leaseholders, or possibly "The Leaseholder".
The general rule of thumb that I have always gone by and not been picked up on for 17 odd years is that I tend to refer to someone who has occupation of a property under an AST or a Rent Act Protected Tenancy as a Tenant. If someone owns the leasehold interest in a property (say a flat) with an original term in excess of 21 years then they tend to be referred to as the Leaseholder or Lessee. They are still a tenant though.
Bottom line the OP is being awkward, possibly with moral justification, and in this instance i would suggest that being awkward over the addressing of the communication form the Managing Agents at this stage is not likely to be of any form of help to them in the long run, in fact the chances are that it could well prejudice any sense of goodwill that they might be able to elicit from the other side if made a point of are high, when the victory would almost certainly be minor and possibly pyrrhic.
I do agree that Landlords and Managing Agents could do better than they do in terms of addressing their communications to people but then there are an awful lot of people who disregard the terms of their lease and sublet without consent and things like that which make it much more sensible to address such correspondence to the Owner or Tenant or Lessee or Leaseholder - take your pick.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Seems like you want to be awkward for the sake of it.
More like I don't like receiving accounts with mistakes in it, having the service charge mysteriously go up 50% without any increase in maintenance costs, seeing the maintenance which is performed done on the wrong thing because contractors aren't instructed properly, reading the lease and finding out I've been paying for things via the service charge which aren't in there... then having written communication from me to them ignored. If that is being awkward, so be it. Edited by creampuff on Sunday 27th August 22:10
creampuff said:
More like I don't like receiving accounts with mistakes in it, having the service charge mysteriously go up 50% without any increase in maintenance costs, seeing the maintenance which is performed done on the wrong thing because contractors aren't instructed properly, reading the lease and finding out I've been paying for things via the service charge which aren't in there... then having written communication from me to them ignored. If that is being awkward, so be it.
And returning a letter unopened resolves all that?Edited by creampuff on Sunday 27th August 22:10
s off instead of just ignoring written communication. Thanks. Rude-boy said:
The general rule of thumb that I have always gone by and not been picked up on for 17 odd years is that I tend to refer to someone who has occupation of a property under an AST or a Rent Act Protected Tenancy as a Tenant.
If someone owns the leasehold interest in a property (say a flat) with an original term in excess of 21 years then they tend to be referred to as the Leaseholder or Lessee. They are still a tenant though.
Bottom line the OP is being awkward, possibly with moral justification, and in this instance i would suggest that being awkward over the addressing of the communication form the Managing Agents at this stage is not likely to be of any form of help to them in the long run, in fact the chances are that it could well prejudice any sense of goodwill that they might be able to elicit from the other side if made a point of are high, when the victory would almost certainly be minor and possibly pyrrhic.
I do agree that Landlords and Managing Agents could do better than they do in terms of addressing their communications to people but then there are an awful lot of people who disregard the terms of their lease and sublet without consent and things like that which make it much more sensible to address such correspondence to the Owner or Tenant or Lessee or Leaseholder - take your pick.
^^^^^totally agree, and possibly exactly what the management company will want, and use against the leaseholder/lessee/tenant in any future dispute.If someone owns the leasehold interest in a property (say a flat) with an original term in excess of 21 years then they tend to be referred to as the Leaseholder or Lessee. They are still a tenant though.
Bottom line the OP is being awkward, possibly with moral justification, and in this instance i would suggest that being awkward over the addressing of the communication form the Managing Agents at this stage is not likely to be of any form of help to them in the long run, in fact the chances are that it could well prejudice any sense of goodwill that they might be able to elicit from the other side if made a point of are high, when the victory would almost certainly be minor and possibly pyrrhic.
I do agree that Landlords and Managing Agents could do better than they do in terms of addressing their communications to people but then there are an awful lot of people who disregard the terms of their lease and sublet without consent and things like that which make it much more sensible to address such correspondence to the Owner or Tenant or Lessee or Leaseholder - take your pick.
There is power in numbers, and therefore what the OP needs to do is get other leaseholders on board, then request from the management company a copy of the building insurance certificate, copies of contractor’s invoices, utility bills etc. etc. Then employ an independent experience flat management accountant to check past accounts.
http://www.lease-advice.org/advice/
Wings said:
^^^^^totally agree, and possibly exactly what the management company will want, and use against the leaseholder/lessee/tenant in any future dispute.
I think that's reading more competence and forward planning into the management company than has been there for some time 
It would have been nice to return the letter to them unopened; alas it does seem to be correctly addressed.
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