Probate geneologists and inheritance
Discussion
Dear all
I've just been contacted by a few of these guys regarding a possible inheritance from a blood relative (mother's cousin) who died intestate. I don't watch much TV so have not seen Heir Hunters but get the gist. Does anyone who has been through the same thing have any advice or point out any pitfalls?
Can I ask in particular;
1. Once these geneologists have confirmed the lineage and eligibility what else do they do for their percentage? (4% in this case).
2. Should the solicitor acting on behalf of the deceased estate be getting in touch with surviving relatives (6 of us) now that they have been made aware of our existence? Or is that our job or the geneologist company?.
3. Is there any benefit going with a larger company versus a small local one?
I've just been contacted by a few of these guys regarding a possible inheritance from a blood relative (mother's cousin) who died intestate. I don't watch much TV so have not seen Heir Hunters but get the gist. Does anyone who has been through the same thing have any advice or point out any pitfalls?
Can I ask in particular;
1. Once these geneologists have confirmed the lineage and eligibility what else do they do for their percentage? (4% in this case).
2. Should the solicitor acting on behalf of the deceased estate be getting in touch with surviving relatives (6 of us) now that they have been made aware of our existence? Or is that our job or the geneologist company?.
3. Is there any benefit going with a larger company versus a small local one?
Have you done any digging on it yourself? Might be able to save yourself the fee and go direct. There's the unclaimed estate list here
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/bona-v...
On the other hand, if you have multiple companies contacting you, you might be able to lower the fee with competing companies.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/bona-v...
On the other hand, if you have multiple companies contacting you, you might be able to lower the fee with competing companies.
4% may not be too bad - but consider that they can't proceed without the agreement of everyone who inherits
one I was involved with the connection was very vague (up several generations - sideways, back down and then a half-sibling we didn't even know existed - and living abroad). Even though I do the family history and know extensive amounts of information, I had no idea they existed...
At the time (many years back pre-internet) they wanted c. 20% and it was negotiated down considerably but the family did use them... ultimately in that situation, worth it...
it is unlikely to be someone you are aware of as otherwise you would know, so maybe a bit of digging and then agree a deal - if they are only after 4% it is possible it is quite a bit of money - and they won't let you know how much, so perhaps negotiate a cap above which it is a lower %? - without all signatures they can't proceed, so you have them over a barrel regarding timescales...
one I was involved with the connection was very vague (up several generations - sideways, back down and then a half-sibling we didn't even know existed - and living abroad). Even though I do the family history and know extensive amounts of information, I had no idea they existed...
At the time (many years back pre-internet) they wanted c. 20% and it was negotiated down considerably but the family did use them... ultimately in that situation, worth it...
it is unlikely to be someone you are aware of as otherwise you would know, so maybe a bit of digging and then agree a deal - if they are only after 4% it is possible it is quite a bit of money - and they won't let you know how much, so perhaps negotiate a cap above which it is a lower %? - without all signatures they can't proceed, so you have them over a barrel regarding timescales...
Loose_Cannon said:
2. Should the solicitor acting on behalf of the deceased estate be getting in touch with surviving relatives (6 of us) now that they have been made aware of our existence? Or is that our job or the geneologist company?.
There isn't an executor because there is no Will.Just gone through this ourselves. We got told roughly how much it was but not where it as coming from but as they were an Australian company that was a bit of a clue! They wanted 30%!!! I told them I would track it down myself but I appreciated the work they'd already done and that if they were more reasonable I'd go along with them to save the hassle. They bottomed out at 25% so I spent a bit of time researching and found it myself. Several weeks of correspondence, proof of ID certified wills etc and shares and 20 years worth of back dividends were nice.
If they are genuinely accepting 4% I'm shocked, they've been known to take 100's of thousands and aren't the nicest of businesses. The estate must be large for that fee - 4% of £1m would be £40k! You seem to know who the deceased is so why not deal direct or offer a fixed fee. They risk getting nothing so might be keen to deal.
Bona vacantia lists will possibly help
If they are genuinely accepting 4% I'm shocked, they've been known to take 100's of thousands and aren't the nicest of businesses. The estate must be large for that fee - 4% of £1m would be £40k! You seem to know who the deceased is so why not deal direct or offer a fixed fee. They risk getting nothing so might be keen to deal.
Bona vacantia lists will possibly help
Edited by elanfan on Monday 28th August 01:22
Loose_Cannon said:
2. Should the solicitor acting on behalf of the deceased estate be getting in touch with surviving relatives (6 of us) now that they have been made aware of our existence? Or is that our job or the geneologist company?.
Having watched a few of the programmes - I'd got the impression that generally if the heir hunters were involved then the estate was fairly 'cold' - so unlikely to be a solicitor activity dealing with the estate.A variation that I've some knowledge of was a relative that died without a will and the solicitor had to use someone (presumably a heir hunter company) to trace 'known' (but out of contact) relatives - but in that case I thought any fee was taken from the estate rather than potential inheritors.
There are 4 companies lining up. The first to get in touch was a local firm, husband and wife team, very pleasant and helpful. Initial offer was 8%. Then 3 big London based firms came along (you now the sort where you can hear the call centre environment in the background). A couple of calls and 4% (+VAT) was the result which the local firm matched..
I usually like the idea of going with someone local for most things as you can bang on the door if not happy, but I wondered if the big firms offer any more reassurance in this instance?
I also can't work out what else these geneology firms do now they have found all beneficiaries, even less so if each benficiary goes with a different company?
There are 6, me and an uncle are in touch, 2 more we could find (distant on our side) and 2 we would have to search for.
Its a bit sad really, she was a nice lady. Usual story, we all have them; a Christmas card relative you see at weddings and much more often at funerals. She was a cousin to both my deceased mother and my living uncle. I would have expected to have known about it through him but because of some family dynamics it turns out he hasn't seen her in a while and the solicitor announced no living relatives when she passed on suddenly.
I usually like the idea of going with someone local for most things as you can bang on the door if not happy, but I wondered if the big firms offer any more reassurance in this instance?
I also can't work out what else these geneology firms do now they have found all beneficiaries, even less so if each benficiary goes with a different company?
There are 6, me and an uncle are in touch, 2 more we could find (distant on our side) and 2 we would have to search for.
Its a bit sad really, she was a nice lady. Usual story, we all have them; a Christmas card relative you see at weddings and much more often at funerals. She was a cousin to both my deceased mother and my living uncle. I would have expected to have known about it through him but because of some family dynamics it turns out he hasn't seen her in a while and the solicitor announced no living relatives when she passed on suddenly.
Edited by Loose_Cannon on Monday 28th August 13:57
As you know the deceased I'd have thought you might have an idea of the potential size of the estate. Presumably you know where she lived so the property value can be ascertained. If you also know what she did for a living you might be able to extrapolate/guess a value of savings. Can't guess how well investments might have gone though. If you suspect it's a LOT of money try to negotiate a fixed fee. I know in my case our relative would have been livid had we given away a large sum when a little work on your part could avoid it altogether.
Loose_Cannon said:
the solicitor announced no living relatives when she passed on suddenly.
with the thread popping back up to the top of 'recent threads' re-read your last post and this strikes me as odd - even if you're only 'Christmas cards and funerals/weddings' relatives, sounds like your link isn't that far away nor that difficult to track down without resorting to heir hunters.I'd be a little curious about the solicitor and their motivation for making such a sweeping statement that is blatantly untrue!
Plus - surely if you now know who it is: do you really need the middle-man and let them take a slice of it for their trouble?
My mum got contacted a while back by a company in Bristol , despite being a pensioner her scam warning bells rang and she spoke to me about it , I was able to find a name on the register of a distant cousin who had spent his life in mental care facilities and was thought to be long dead.
She let them deal with and ended up getting a few k out of it , some other relatives wanted nothing to do with it , i guess they thought it was a scam but its better than the government getting it all
She let them deal with and ended up getting a few k out of it , some other relatives wanted nothing to do with it , i guess they thought it was a scam but its better than the government getting it all
silverfoxcc said:
Hmmm
If the OP did then go solo, would any of these firms 'have a claim' against him.
Rather like putting your house up for sale and then going private. I have heard some Estate agents get a little upset about their loss of commission.
of course not...If the OP did then go solo, would any of these firms 'have a claim' against him.
Rather like putting your house up for sale and then going private. I have heard some Estate agents get a little upset about their loss of commission.
a better analogy would be an estate agent coming to you and saying I can sell your house for 5%
you sell it on your own
they try and make a claim
not sure that would be logical!
if of course the OP signs up and then tries to go on their own, then yes there would be a contractually based claim - until then they are no different to double-glazing salesmen trying to make you sign up - the OP owes them nothing...
if the OP knows the person concerned it shouldn't be too difficult to work out the size of the their estate and therefore whether 4% is worth worrying about
Its not always that easy to go solo.
From experience, once the 'hunters' have been commissioned by a solicitor to search for someone, then theyappear to have a binding contract to get their share from the solicitor acting for the deceased.
I was contacted last year by the 'Hunters' (Were waiting on my doorstep when I got home one day) to tell me that I had been named in a will of a relative and they had been asked to fine me by a solicitor.
I signed NO paperwork for them and despite me still being contactable at my last known address (as well as companies house director search etc), they simply confirmed that I did exist to the solicitor and then collected their commission. Must have been one of the easiest jobs they ever had.
I knew the relative had passed away, but did not know I was named in a will. A simple letter from the solicitor would have done the job just as easily.
From experience, once the 'hunters' have been commissioned by a solicitor to search for someone, then theyappear to have a binding contract to get their share from the solicitor acting for the deceased.
I was contacted last year by the 'Hunters' (Were waiting on my doorstep when I got home one day) to tell me that I had been named in a will of a relative and they had been asked to fine me by a solicitor.
I signed NO paperwork for them and despite me still being contactable at my last known address (as well as companies house director search etc), they simply confirmed that I did exist to the solicitor and then collected their commission. Must have been one of the easiest jobs they ever had.
I knew the relative had passed away, but did not know I was named in a will. A simple letter from the solicitor would have done the job just as easily.
akirk said:
silverfoxcc said:
Hmmm
If the OP did then go solo, would any of these firms 'have a claim' against him.
Rather like putting your house up for sale and then going private. I have heard some Estate agents get a little upset about their loss of commission.
of course not...If the OP did then go solo, would any of these firms 'have a claim' against him.
Rather like putting your house up for sale and then going private. I have heard some Estate agents get a little upset about their loss of commission.
a better analogy would be an estate agent coming to you and saying I can sell your house for 5%
you sell it on your own
they try and make a claim
not sure that would be logical!
if of course the OP signs up and then tries to go on their own, then yes there would be a contractually based claim - until then they are no different to double-glazing salesmen trying to make you sign up - the OP owes them nothing...
if the OP knows the person concerned it shouldn't be too difficult to work out the size of the their estate and therefore whether 4% is worth worrying about
Spot on! When we were contacted by this Aussie lot they wanted us to sign or more correctly my wife. She thought it was a scam and would not sign - as I said earlier they wanted 30% I asked them to be more reasonable and they came back with 25% (generous of them!). I made it clear that I'd find it myself if they wouldn't budge and as they wouldn't I did exactly that. No qualms - if they hadn't been such greedy barstewards they'd have made a few Adollars. I wouldn't have begrudged them say £1000 but they wanted in excess of 3 times that for what was a simple single beneficiary case.
Have a google about heir hunters - there are quite a few horror stories!
llewop said:
Loose_Cannon said:
the solicitor announced no living relatives when she passed on suddenly.
I'd be a little curious about the solicitor and their motivation for making such a sweeping statement that is blatantly untrue!If no will is found the size of the estate can be estimated roughly, at least one property, a sadly run down semi in a pleasant albeit inexpensive northern town. There is the possibility of further property through a brother who passed away a year ago and may have gone to her.
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