advantages of the flat motor
advantages of the flat motor
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Discussion

Tacoboy

Original Poster:

202 posts

288 months

Friday 8th April 2005
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What are the advantages & disadvantages of the Flat motor over the V motor?

Trooper2

6,676 posts

258 months

Friday 8th April 2005
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I would think lower center of gravity and lower hoodline (bonnet) are high on the list. lower C.ofG. would allow better road holding and cornering.

pfecteau

34 posts

265 months

Friday 8th April 2005
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The design also produces lower amount of vibration, all other things being equal... and the sound!

GuyR

2,535 posts

309 months

Friday 8th April 2005
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Flat six is one of only three engine configurations that has no primary or secondary imbalances. (The others are straight-six and V12.)

williamp

20,244 posts

300 months

Friday 8th April 2005
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GuyR said:
Flat six is one of only three engine configurations that has no primary or secondary imbalances. (The others are straight-six and V12.)


call me slow, but can you elaborate? I dont understand

clubsport

7,408 posts

285 months

Friday 8th April 2005
quotequote all
williamp said:

GuyR said:
Flat six is one of only three engine configurations that has no primary or secondary imbalances. (The others are straight-six and V12.)



call me slow, but can you elaborate? I dont understand


William, you are slow

ninemeister

1,146 posts

285 months

Saturday 9th April 2005
quotequote all
Primary imbalance is due to the reciprocating components, that is the piston & rod travelling up and down the cylinder, or more specifically side to side in the case of the flat 6 911 engine. This primary force is counteracted by a balance weight built into the design of the crankshaft.

Secondary imbalance is due to the said crank balance weights acting at 90 degrees to the cylinder axis where they are opposing just the big end weight of the rod, obviously this secondary force is up/down in the case of the 911 engine. The beauty of the 911 is that the opposing pistons "box" each other 1/4, 2/5, 3/6, so the balance weights are on adjacent crank webs which are set at 180 degrees to each other on the crank, thereby cancelling each others' vertical forces (more or less).

The more or less is because the weights are not exactly in line front-to-rear, so there are still some front/rear imbalance forces acting on the parts, but this is taken care of by using a stiff crank/main bearing/crankcase assembly (unless it is a 996 of course! ).

jolley

465 posts

262 months

Saturday 9th April 2005
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GuyR said:
Flat six is one of only three engine configurations that has no primary or secondary imbalances. (The others are straight-six and V12.)


My little brain cannot understand how the straight 6 and V12 cannot have imbalances.

Also, would the Subaru Flat 4 not also be balanced?

dilbert

7,741 posts

258 months

Saturday 9th April 2005
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I'm not sure about all this balancing stuff.

I think that a Flat engine that is designed the way that Porsche did is easy to manufacture on small machine tools. In some ways this is better, because a machine tool that is smaller is cheaper for a given level of precision.

Because the crank case is naturally split in the centre, I'd have thought that the whole casting process is much more straightforward.

If the engine hangs from the car, rather than being suported by it, it makes an engine out easier, with less equipment. The hanging engine suits a flat design.

It probably doesn't matter so much with a rubber belt, but if you are using a timing chain, you really need to have two with a flat engine, whereas, you might get away with one in the vee configuration.

The oil distribution around the engine is more difficult in a flat engine.

Trooper2

6,676 posts

258 months

Saturday 9th April 2005
quotequote all
jolley said:

GuyR said:
Flat six is one of only three engine configurations that has no primary or secondary imbalances. (The others are straight-six and V12.)



My little brain cannot understand how the straight 6 and V12 cannot have imbalances.

Also, would the Subaru Flat 4 not also be balanced?






Straight or flat 6s are naturally balanced because you always have 2 pistons at top dead centre, 2 pistons at bottom dead centre, and 2 pistons right in the very middle of the stoke, as they are all moving up and down, so they in effect cancel each others vibrations out.

V-12s and flat 12s work the same way, except it's 4 TDC, 4 BDC and 4 in the middle of the stoke.

Flat engines are nicknamed Boxers because the pistons move laterally like a boxers arms as they throw a punch and because the pistons are moving side to side instead of up and down like in an in-line engine less vibration will occur but a flat 6 or 12 will be smoother than a flat 4.

Tacoboy

Original Poster:

202 posts

288 months

Thursday 28th April 2005
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Do they make a flat-8 engine?

silver993tt

9,064 posts

266 months

Thursday 28th April 2005
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If I remember, Porsche made a flat-8 motor for racing in the 1960's. Read about it recently somewhere. Someone else elaborate?

GravelBen

16,431 posts

257 months

Thursday 28th April 2005
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Porsche made a twin-turbo flat-12 (in the 917-30 I think) which had some ridiculous amount of power (1000 bhp IIRC)

They also made a flat-16, but I'm not sure if it ever went into a car or was just a prototype.

verysideways

10,268 posts

299 months

Thursday 28th April 2005
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I read in a book about Porsche's racing history that they used to run the 917/30 at about 1200bhp for endurance, but for qualifying they regularly ran closer to 1800bhp

ettore

5,040 posts

279 months

Thursday 28th April 2005
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Yep, Porsche made a 1.5litre flat eight for Grand Prix racing in the early sixties - I think it won one GP in the hands of Dan Gurney. They popped it in the odd sportsracer as well and it sounds absolutely gorgeous! Also, wasn`t the 908 a flat eight?

As mentioned above, the 917 in all its derivatives had a lovely , big flat 12 as did various Ferrari`s.