Survey of Economists on future Tax rates
Discussion
A survey of 26 Independent Economists has found that 23 out of 26 believe that Taxes will rise in the event of a Labour victory to fund their spending plans.
I believe that Labour have already made a commitment to keep the rates of income tax the same, so after the election we will see rises in NI and more 'stealth' taxes.
In contrast only 5 of the 26 believed that Taxes would rise in the event of a Conservative victory.
I believe that Labour have already made a commitment to keep the rates of income tax the same, so after the election we will see rises in NI and more 'stealth' taxes.
In contrast only 5 of the 26 believed that Taxes would rise in the event of a Conservative victory.
Jaglover said:
A survey of 26 Independent Economists has found that 23 out of 26 believe that Taxes will rise in the event of a Labour victory to fund their spending plans.
I believe that Labour have already made a commitment to keep the rates of income tax the same, so after the election we will see rises in NI and more 'stealth' taxes.
In contrast only 5 of the 26 believed that Taxes would rise in the event of a Conservative victory.
I am sure taxes will rise if Labour win, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think taxes won't rise with the Conservatives. Probably not as much, or as quickly, but they will rise, and the fact that they wont committ to an answer on this question shows this.
968 said:
I am sure taxes will rise if Labour win, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think taxes won't rise with the Conservatives. Probably not as much, or as quickly, but they will rise, and the fact that they wont committ to an answer on this question shows this.
Unless they make massive cuts in public expenditure.
Which Mr Howard has said they won’t do.
So that’s alright then.
Or is it. Jaglover said:According to the broadsheets yesterday BLiar has refused to rule out income tax rises this time, apparently such a commitment not to raise direct taxation isn't in their manifesto. Haven't read it so can't confirm.
I believe that Labour have already made a commitment to keep the rates of income tax the same
The days of income taxes as the basic generator of revenue for governments worldwide are numbered. In marketing terms it is a cash cow. The way forward is stealth taxes. This is promarily because it is predicted more and more people will make their living in cyberspace and be paid in ways that will eventually be too costly to trace. While the current situation is that most people sit there as aunt sallys and get battered by PAYE, the advent of things like Ebay and gambling funds means that money will be shuffled out of sight of the prying eyes of the tickers and stampers from the Inland revenue. Nobody knows how long its going to take but it will happen.
nonegreen said:
The days of income taxes as the basic generator of revenue for governments worldwide are numbered. In marketing terms it is a cash cow. The way forward is stealth taxes. This is promarily because it is predicted more and more people will make their living in cyberspace and be paid in ways that will eventually be too costly to trace. While the current situation is that most people sit there as aunt sallys and get battered by PAYE, the advent of things like Ebay and gambling funds means that money will be shuffled out of sight of the prying eyes of the tickers and stampers from the Inland revenue. Nobody knows how long its going to take but it will happen.
well quite. I can see it moving this way too because stealth taxes are taxes on consumerism - petrol, fags, pensions, insurance etc
c c said:
I am sure taxes will rise if Labour win, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think taxes won't rise with the Conservatives. Probably not as much, or as quickly, but they will rise, and the fact that they wont committ to an answer on this question shows this.
Unless they make massive cuts in public expenditure.
Which Mr Howard has said they won’t do.
So that’s alright then.
Howard doesn't need to make spending cuts. All is has to do is not *raise* spending in line with inflation. Bingo...
When you look at spending both the Conservatives and Labour are within spitting distance of one another. There won't be that big an immediate effect - of that I'm certain.
968 said:
I am sure taxes will rise if Labour win, but I think you are kidding yourself if you think taxes won't rise with the Conservatives. Probably not as much, or as quickly, but they will rise, and the fact that they wont committ to an answer on this question shows this.
I would disagree there 968-The reason why taxes will need to rise under Labour is that we are already running a substantial deficit and Labour are committed to further big rises in Public spending.
The Tories have promised to match Labour spending plans on Health and Education-but not in other areas.
I think substantial cuts could be made in other areas of public expenditure very easily.
As to them not making a commitment-who knows what the future will bring?-I believe Mr Howard’s strategy is to present the Tories as a more 'honest' alternative to Labour.
iandbeech said:
Taxes will rise, whoever gets into power. I`ve heard it all before. If the Tories get in, a few months down the line they`ll be telling us the the public books are worse than they believed so there will be no scope to cut taxes or they will be telling us they have to rise.
At last someone telling the truth.
Even if the Tories cut public spending they would struggle to cut tax as well.
Government is a bit of monster the best thing is to try and control it.
Anyone know what the percentage of of GDP is Government spending and how this compares to France, Germany, Sweden and the US
nonegreen said:
The days of income taxes as the basic generator of revenue for governments worldwide are numbered. In marketing terms it is a cash cow. The way forward is stealth taxes. This is promarily because it is predicted more and more people will make their living in cyberspace and be paid in ways that will eventually be too costly to trace. While the current situation is that most people sit there as aunt sallys and get battered by PAYE, the advent of things like Ebay and gambling funds means that money will be shuffled out of sight of the prying eyes of the tickers and stampers from the Inland revenue. Nobody knows how long its going to take but it will happen.
I don't agree. The new age of electronic money will be easier to trace. I do agree that tax evasion is a serious concern for governments, which is why I believe much of the anti cash legislation and guidelines have come about.
Ebay is already open to the prying eyes of the Inland Revenue, and eventually what will happen is that bank's worldwide will need to report every transaction that an "account" under suspicion generates. It will take time, and new systems to deal with it, but it will eventually happen.
john75 said:
At last someone telling the truth.
Even if the Tories cut public spending they would struggle to cut tax as well.
Government is a bit of monster the best thing is to try and control it.
Anyone know what the percentage of of GDP is Government spending and how this compares to France, Germany, Sweden and the US
The Tories have not promised to significantly cut taxes (the £4bn of tax cuts they have promised are so small it is the equivalent of finding loose change down the back of the Sofa)
I think for the duration of the next parliment the choice is between one party which will raise taxes and one which will keep the level of taxation the same.
Jaglover said:
The Tories have not promised to significantly cut taxes (the £4bn of tax cuts they have promised are so small it is the equivalent of finding loose change down the back of the Sofa)
I think for the duration of the next parliment the choice is between one party which will raise taxes and one which will keep the level of taxation the same.
Yes, perhaps, but as all politicians are lying b*stards, I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect taxation to remain the same. Given how nasty and untrustworthy Howard was, whilst in government previously, I don't particularly hold any hope that he has suddenly undergone a Road to Damascus transformation.
The tories wont win, simple as that. We are doomed to another 4 years of labour. The Tories lost the election the minute they chose Howard as their leader.
Yes but JagLover, The James report on which the Conservative manifesto is built, describes hundreds of thousands of job losses in such Dept's as: DTI, DWP, HO, FCO, EA, DH, DCA, DCO, Defra, Military HQ, DfES, DOT, DPO, NHS, DCMS, HM Treasury.
And many of the jobs which are left will be moved out of London to the Regions.(cheaper?)
The selling off of: The Met office, Warship support agency, Defence aviation repair aviation Agency, Army base repair org, BFPO, MOD agencies, The abolishion of 9 Regional Bodies, which after "privatisation" will result in further redunancy.
I think the people who work in these places have a right to know what they may be voting for if they vote Conservative. Most of these job losses are in London and the SE and South, but others are in the Regions in the NHS, Education, Local Gov. etc. and most will lose their early retirement schemes in the process.
Yet nowhere in this document do I see the cost of the resulting unemployment. The majority will never work again. Most will be married, perhaps with two children, a mortgage, and committments. Maybe they will lose their homes as happened in the Thatcher era in the North? That's four people per job loss for the tax payer to keep, once hard working people wil be reduced to chavs, with the knock on effect to the surrounding community and businesses a few years later.
Put it on your placards and spell it out to all, don't hide it on an obscure site on the web. Tell them what they're in for if they vote for your party.
What I have recounted is from the horses mouth, read it yourself by doing a google for "The James Committee" and selecting the "html" version.
I think Howard Flight was telling the truth, and was sacked for it!
>> Edited by 8Pack on Sunday 10th April 01:43
And many of the jobs which are left will be moved out of London to the Regions.(cheaper?)
The selling off of: The Met office, Warship support agency, Defence aviation repair aviation Agency, Army base repair org, BFPO, MOD agencies, The abolishion of 9 Regional Bodies, which after "privatisation" will result in further redunancy.
I think the people who work in these places have a right to know what they may be voting for if they vote Conservative. Most of these job losses are in London and the SE and South, but others are in the Regions in the NHS, Education, Local Gov. etc. and most will lose their early retirement schemes in the process.
Yet nowhere in this document do I see the cost of the resulting unemployment. The majority will never work again. Most will be married, perhaps with two children, a mortgage, and committments. Maybe they will lose their homes as happened in the Thatcher era in the North? That's four people per job loss for the tax payer to keep, once hard working people wil be reduced to chavs, with the knock on effect to the surrounding community and businesses a few years later.
Put it on your placards and spell it out to all, don't hide it on an obscure site on the web. Tell them what they're in for if they vote for your party.
What I have recounted is from the horses mouth, read it yourself by doing a google for "The James Committee" and selecting the "html" version.
I think Howard Flight was telling the truth, and was sacked for it!
>> Edited by 8Pack on Sunday 10th April 01:43
its always going to be hard going after a govt relying on bribes to retain power, someone has to pay for labours recruitment drive in the civil service,and the pension entitlements of said recruits to the labour party for the rest of thier lives!
borrowing for such crap as child trust funds has to be repayed before tax can be cut, labours promises and bribes will have to be payed for eventually, the govt that inherits these liabilities, be it liberal,labour or conservative will get shit from the taxpayer as maggie did for her whole term as pm.
while trying to repay the debt.
which incedentally she actually managed to build up quite a reserve! which blair and his mate wasted on bribes and actually brought down the world gold price by selling uk gold reserves for $80 an ounce less than face value! good old tone!
borrowing for such crap as child trust funds has to be repayed before tax can be cut, labours promises and bribes will have to be payed for eventually, the govt that inherits these liabilities, be it liberal,labour or conservative will get shit from the taxpayer as maggie did for her whole term as pm.
while trying to repay the debt.
which incedentally she actually managed to build up quite a reserve! which blair and his mate wasted on bribes and actually brought down the world gold price by selling uk gold reserves for $80 an ounce less than face value! good old tone!
john75 said:
Taxes will rise, whoever gets into power. I`ve heard it all before. If the Tories get in, a few months down the line they`ll be telling us the the public books are worse than they believed so there will be no scope to cut taxes or they will be telling us they have to rise.
At last someone telling the truth.
Even if the Tories cut public spending they would struggle to cut tax as well.
Government is a bit of monster the best thing is to try and control it.
Anyone know what the percentage of of GDP is Government spending and how this compares to France, Germany, Sweden and the US
Here is a 2001 chart of major industrialized nation's Government GDP contibution.
www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy01/guide01.html
Nah! Westy mate, I believe that no-one is ever completely wrong, therefore some of what you say is right, and vice versa. It's always a good starting point and I have to sort out where I disagree.
What "Maggie" did, was to waste the North Sea Oil wealth on attacking the north, industry and the unions which she never understood. Even Michael Edwards (BL Chairman) said so. I'll give Mr Heath his due, we should have listened to him a little more, at least he came and spoke 1-1 with the miners. And if you've never needed a union Westy, then you DON'T know what it's all about, (sorry 'bout that mate) but our bosses are NOT benevolent.
Are we "better off" for the loss of all those now gone industries, or worse off? Could the Oil revenue have been better spent? I think so, when you consider the rise in crime which followed it, or the rise in unsocial activity because people felt that they were not part of it anymore, chavism, the lot! It cost a fortune, and still is.
I think I'm right in saying that I'm a little older than you Westy, and I remember when this country was a better place to live, even chav's used to work! There WAS a marked change in the Thatcher era though, the rich got: very rich and the poor: lost their jobs and never worked again.
What use is a system which results in a very rich few, but a very poor and disengaged nation?
What "Maggie" did, was to waste the North Sea Oil wealth on attacking the north, industry and the unions which she never understood. Even Michael Edwards (BL Chairman) said so. I'll give Mr Heath his due, we should have listened to him a little more, at least he came and spoke 1-1 with the miners. And if you've never needed a union Westy, then you DON'T know what it's all about, (sorry 'bout that mate) but our bosses are NOT benevolent.
Are we "better off" for the loss of all those now gone industries, or worse off? Could the Oil revenue have been better spent? I think so, when you consider the rise in crime which followed it, or the rise in unsocial activity because people felt that they were not part of it anymore, chavism, the lot! It cost a fortune, and still is.
I think I'm right in saying that I'm a little older than you Westy, and I remember when this country was a better place to live, even chav's used to work! There WAS a marked change in the Thatcher era though, the rich got: very rich and the poor: lost their jobs and never worked again.
What use is a system which results in a very rich few, but a very poor and disengaged nation?
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