996 is unwell - what to do...
Discussion
My 996 is a little unwell. I had it inspected earlier this week after some clues to a known condition, and it was indeed diagnosed with scoring to cylinder 4.
Just want to check my logic and options, as I'm minded to keep the car. The inspection suggested it was in pretty good nick apart from the cylinder issue, and as long as it's fixed I'm happy.
Now the seller will sort it for me, the diagnosis needs to be confirmed by his own garage, but I'm thinking I should insist on all cylinders in bank 2 being done, rather than just the one that's been diagnosed. I read this is the minimum solution that is considered acceptable when it comes to selling on. I think i am in a good position, but if it gets too expensive I'd imagine I'll be given my money back so I need to make sure I'm not going in too strong.
What's the minimum I should go for here? I won't get to see the damage for myself as the seller is sorting the work.
Just want to check my logic and options, as I'm minded to keep the car. The inspection suggested it was in pretty good nick apart from the cylinder issue, and as long as it's fixed I'm happy.
Now the seller will sort it for me, the diagnosis needs to be confirmed by his own garage, but I'm thinking I should insist on all cylinders in bank 2 being done, rather than just the one that's been diagnosed. I read this is the minimum solution that is considered acceptable when it comes to selling on. I think i am in a good position, but if it gets too expensive I'd imagine I'll be given my money back so I need to make sure I'm not going in too strong.
What's the minimum I should go for here? I won't get to see the damage for myself as the seller is sorting the work.
Edited by Jefferson Steelflex on Saturday 16th September 12:27
Not enough info really. Trade or private seller?
I have a similar conundrum with an air cooled engine and (probably) a bent valve. Discuss with an independent engine builder who says you can't possibly just fix one valve, you must at least refresh all the heads and do rings. Then actually you should do a proper top end refresh. But you can't do that on an old engine you must split the cases, machine them, put in new bearings etc. So from bent valve to full refresh in a few steps of logic.
My seller looks at me askance and says, no I'll just get that valve fixed.
And really that's all he is obliged to do. So my humble view is that if one cylinder is scored, one cylinder is all that your seller needs to fix. There might be goodwill, there might not!
Perhaps you may need to think how much contribution you'd be prepared to make to get the whole bank (hehe) done? Just a thought
Bert
I have a similar conundrum with an air cooled engine and (probably) a bent valve. Discuss with an independent engine builder who says you can't possibly just fix one valve, you must at least refresh all the heads and do rings. Then actually you should do a proper top end refresh. But you can't do that on an old engine you must split the cases, machine them, put in new bearings etc. So from bent valve to full refresh in a few steps of logic.
My seller looks at me askance and says, no I'll just get that valve fixed.
And really that's all he is obliged to do. So my humble view is that if one cylinder is scored, one cylinder is all that your seller needs to fix. There might be goodwill, there might not!
Perhaps you may need to think how much contribution you'd be prepared to make to get the whole bank (hehe) done? Just a thought
Bert
Thanks chaps. It was a trade sale and the seller is being good as gold so far, the only thing he has asked is to take the car and get a second opinion which I'm more than happy with.
I recognise that Hartech are the perceived pinnacle here but I don't agree they are the only choice, but I do recognise I need to have some control over the repair. I think there are reputable specialists near me in Essex /E.London who I can ask for a quote.
I expect that the seller will go for the minimum required, I guess I would in their situation, so yes I need to keep on top of it. A contribution seems like a good idea and perhaps some,thing I might look at depending on how far away we are on what then cost is going to be.
If we can't get agreement, I can give the car back (already been offered) so there's some leverage there.
I recognise that Hartech are the perceived pinnacle here but I don't agree they are the only choice, but I do recognise I need to have some control over the repair. I think there are reputable specialists near me in Essex /E.London who I can ask for a quote.
I expect that the seller will go for the minimum required, I guess I would in their situation, so yes I need to keep on top of it. A contribution seems like a good idea and perhaps some,thing I might look at depending on how far away we are on what then cost is going to be.
If we can't get agreement, I can give the car back (already been offered) so there's some leverage there.
Assuming this is C4S and you paid nearly mid 20s? As cmoose said, full rebuild would be more reliable and it will cost. My suggestion would be give the car back and look for gen 2. Its gonna cost so much for and old car (love C4S by the way) but once you think about it, is it really worth the hassle/cost ? Especially if its your first Porsche.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Your other thread was written as if you'd bought the car retail. What then made it a 'trade sale'? Are you a trader? If not then there's no such thing as a 'trade sale' and your consumer rights are retained...it sounds like the vendor realises this though, given that he has offered you your money back.
Take the money back, look for another car and make sure you get a PPI from a reputable specialist including boroscope. You're lucky in this case; it could've been much worse!!!!
Take the money back, look for another car and make sure you get a PPI from a reputable specialist including boroscope. You're lucky in this case; it could've been much worse!!!!
Yeah ok, terminology slightly off but I bought it from a dealer and so far I'm unsure what to do. Love everything about the car and it's not very PH to give up so easily, but at the same time I want it to be a keeper.
I guess it all depends on what is discussed in the coming days, I have a minimum in mind in terms of work required and we will see how it goes.
If I was going to get another motor it would be a 997 Gen2 which means another £7-8k as a minimum.
I guess it all depends on what is discussed in the coming days, I have a minimum in mind in terms of work required and we will see how it goes.
If I was going to get another motor it would be a 997 Gen2 which means another £7-8k as a minimum.
£24k, no other major work done.
I know people go nuts over PPIs and the like, and rightly so when it's a private sale, but I bought it with the knowledge that I had time to get it inspected and was able to get recompense if needed. Had it been a private sale I'd have been all over PPIs, IMS records etc.
If I keep it then I'll get the IMS looked at and the clutch replaced while it's in bits. Nothing untoward has happened here though, as far as I'm concerned the issue must have been present for a while but nothing that can't be fixed and all conversations have been fine, it's just whether I a) get it fixed and carry on, b) try and get some money and get it fixed myself or c) call it quits.
It's nice to have that option and so far I'm relaxed about the whole thing.
I know people go nuts over PPIs and the like, and rightly so when it's a private sale, but I bought it with the knowledge that I had time to get it inspected and was able to get recompense if needed. Had it been a private sale I'd have been all over PPIs, IMS records etc.
If I keep it then I'll get the IMS looked at and the clutch replaced while it's in bits. Nothing untoward has happened here though, as far as I'm concerned the issue must have been present for a while but nothing that can't be fixed and all conversations have been fine, it's just whether I a) get it fixed and carry on, b) try and get some money and get it fixed myself or c) call it quits.
It's nice to have that option and so far I'm relaxed about the whole thing.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
If I was going to get another motor it would be a 997 Gen2 which means another £7-8k as a minimum.
As others suggested, your engine work + some servicing would go beyond 10k imho, so you would be having a 996 C4s, not enjoying in the first few months as the engine being rebuilt and spent more than a gen2?I see you have a Golf R (Fantastic car!), just go for a 987.2 boxster or Cayman, enjoy the trouble-free flat 6 driving.
(and keep the rest of the money for fun, holidays and etc...)Edited by ooid on Saturday 16th September 17:17
ooid said:
As others suggested, your engine work + some servicing would go beyond 10k imho, so you would be having a 996 C4s, not enjoying in the first few months as the engine being rebuilt and spent more than a gen2?]
Agreed, but only if I have to pay for it. I could have most or all of the work paid for and therefore get there car back fully sorted for minimal outlay to me. Bear in mind my C4S has all of the spec I looked for, is a rare colour and is in good condition (engine excepted 
), and it's a case of being unlikely to find another one for a while. Of course, I'm not going to settle for second best so we will see in the coming days what the future holds.
I dont really like the 997, nor the 987 Cayman although I could be convinced for the right car. I'll have a look at what's out there.
Wow, time flies - 7 weeks later and I get my car back tomorrow.
I opted for a full 6cyl engine rebuild, alongside the clutch and flywheel, revised IMS, AOS and engine mounts, to which I agreed to contribute £2k. The basis was that I had the option of a free rebuild on bank 2, but I wanted belt and braces and the clutch was almost gone so it made sense to get more work done.
Not having the car has been painful, especially as I’ve had to get buses and trains everywhere in the interim, but I wanted to keep the car and I’ll be glad to get it back in hopefully rude health.
I guess it’s not much of any update without pics, but I in the meantime I just wanted to share.
I opted for a full 6cyl engine rebuild, alongside the clutch and flywheel, revised IMS, AOS and engine mounts, to which I agreed to contribute £2k. The basis was that I had the option of a free rebuild on bank 2, but I wanted belt and braces and the clutch was almost gone so it made sense to get more work done.
Not having the car has been painful, especially as I’ve had to get buses and trains everywhere in the interim, but I wanted to keep the car and I’ll be glad to get it back in hopefully rude health.
I guess it’s not much of any update without pics, but I in the meantime I just wanted to share.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Wow, time flies - 7 weeks later and I get my car back tomorrow.
I opted for a full 6cyl engine rebuild, alongside the clutch and flywheel, revised IMS, AOS and engine mounts, to which I agreed to contribute £2k. The basis was that I had the option of a free rebuild on bank 2, but I wanted belt and braces and the clutch was almost gone so it made sense to get more work done.
Not having the car has been painful, especially as I’ve had to get buses and trains everywhere in the interim, but I wanted to keep the car and I’ll be glad to get it back in hopefully rude health.
I guess it’s not much of any update without pics, but I in the meantime I just wanted to share.
Would be of some interest I think to see up close pics of the actual bore damage.I opted for a full 6cyl engine rebuild, alongside the clutch and flywheel, revised IMS, AOS and engine mounts, to which I agreed to contribute £2k. The basis was that I had the option of a free rebuild on bank 2, but I wanted belt and braces and the clutch was almost gone so it made sense to get more work done.
Not having the car has been painful, especially as I’ve had to get buses and trains everywhere in the interim, but I wanted to keep the car and I’ll be glad to get it back in hopefully rude health.
I guess it’s not much of any update without pics, but I in the meantime I just wanted to share.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Love everything about the car and it's not very PH to give up so easily, but at the same time I want it to be a keeper.
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Not having the car has been painful, especially as I’ve had to get buses and trains everywhere in the interim, but I wanted to keep the car and I’ll be glad to get it back in hopefully rude health.
Absolutely fair play to you.You now have the car you wanted and it's better than ever - enjoy!!!
I got mine just after yours and just after your issue. Your attitude encouraged me to go ahead. Cheers!
Ok, so here he/she is, fresh with new plate...
The deal was that the dealer insisted on using his own usual garage for the work, which I had to agree to. The issue was that these guys were unknown to me and for the first 4 weeks I had no idea where my car was (it was collected while I was away on business). We did eventually get it all sorted and although I was never able to see the work being done, overall the car sounds and goes a lot better than it did.
I got a check coolant light within 5 minutes of collecting the car, but I was told this was likely and having topped it off (it took an extra 2 litres!) it has been fine since.
1 issue still unresolved - the radio hasn't worked since I collected it. No power, no backlight. The fuse in the footwell is ok, so assume it might be a fuse on the unit itself??
For now I'm happy to listen to the engine noise, and I've been told not to drive over 60mph for the first 500 miles, after which I get a free service and then should be able to open the taps.
The deal was that the dealer insisted on using his own usual garage for the work, which I had to agree to. The issue was that these guys were unknown to me and for the first 4 weeks I had no idea where my car was (it was collected while I was away on business). We did eventually get it all sorted and although I was never able to see the work being done, overall the car sounds and goes a lot better than it did.
I got a check coolant light within 5 minutes of collecting the car, but I was told this was likely and having topped it off (it took an extra 2 litres!) it has been fine since.
1 issue still unresolved - the radio hasn't worked since I collected it. No power, no backlight. The fuse in the footwell is ok, so assume it might be a fuse on the unit itself??
For now I'm happy to listen to the engine noise, and I've been told not to drive over 60mph for the first 500 miles, after which I get a free service and then should be able to open the taps.
Edited by Jefferson Steelflex on Tuesday 7th November 20:27
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