Section 59 for "inconsiderate driving"
Discussion
Hi,
I got pulled over and given a Section 59 yesterday. I'm not exactly sure what for, other than "inconsiderate driving" as it says on the notice I was given. Reading around, it seems like this kind of thing can't be appealed, though everything I've read seems to be well over 5 years old so I was wondering if the situation has changed at all?
I was originally pulled over by an unmarked car as they thought I went around a corner too quickly (note: not speeding, bang on the 30mph limit, well sighted, decent conditions, nowhere near the limit of grip, and at quarter to five in the morning with no cars or pedestrians about, other than myself and the police). We had a chat, and after being told I'd gone too quickly, I explained the above but apologised and said I'd slow down in future.
At this point a marked car showed up and proceeded to block my car in quite aggressively (I was already stopped, engine off long before this, so that seemed a bit odd).
Further discussions with them, same kind of thing. Checked my licence, insurance, etc.
I really wasn't doing anything stupid, I was just driving pretty slowly through a city centre! I also wasn't being a prick after they pulled me over, very conscious of failing the attitude test...
At this point, everyone was still calm and relatively friendly, but it then took a turn for the worse as they blatantly made up a load of stuff up about how fast I was going (and contradicted themselves in doing so). One of the officers from the marked car said he'd seen me and I must have been doing around 40mph, and if I'd gone even a little faster I would have definitely crashed. I disagreed, said I really was only doing the limit, though admitted it could have been a couple of mph over. The officer from the unmarked car then said he "had to do 57mph" just to catch up with me.
I bit at that. I pointed out that I was doing roughly half of that speed, so he didn't need to do double the limit to catch up with me. As soon as I said that, the mood changed and he immediately got really shirty and his exact words were: "If you're going to get picky with us, I'm going to get picky with you and give you a warning, and if you do it again your car will be seized and crushed".
So yeah, after that he went away, wrote out a Section 59 notice for "inconsiderate driving" and called it in and asked for it to be logged against my car registration. They they kept me there for 5-10mins whilst they had a chat amongst themselves and eventually let me go.
it just seems ridiculous. I did nothing wrong, in fact the whole road is littered with speed cameras (and red light cameras which I think double up as speed cameras?). For me to have been going to speeds they said, I'd have to be constantly speeding up and braking to avoid setting the cameras off. But because I said one thing that wasn't "please sir, sorry sir", I've now got a marker on the car and will get the car seized if I do the same thing again, whatever that is.
So, can I:
I got pulled over and given a Section 59 yesterday. I'm not exactly sure what for, other than "inconsiderate driving" as it says on the notice I was given. Reading around, it seems like this kind of thing can't be appealed, though everything I've read seems to be well over 5 years old so I was wondering if the situation has changed at all?
I was originally pulled over by an unmarked car as they thought I went around a corner too quickly (note: not speeding, bang on the 30mph limit, well sighted, decent conditions, nowhere near the limit of grip, and at quarter to five in the morning with no cars or pedestrians about, other than myself and the police). We had a chat, and after being told I'd gone too quickly, I explained the above but apologised and said I'd slow down in future.
At this point a marked car showed up and proceeded to block my car in quite aggressively (I was already stopped, engine off long before this, so that seemed a bit odd).
Further discussions with them, same kind of thing. Checked my licence, insurance, etc.
I really wasn't doing anything stupid, I was just driving pretty slowly through a city centre! I also wasn't being a prick after they pulled me over, very conscious of failing the attitude test...
At this point, everyone was still calm and relatively friendly, but it then took a turn for the worse as they blatantly made up a load of stuff up about how fast I was going (and contradicted themselves in doing so). One of the officers from the marked car said he'd seen me and I must have been doing around 40mph, and if I'd gone even a little faster I would have definitely crashed. I disagreed, said I really was only doing the limit, though admitted it could have been a couple of mph over. The officer from the unmarked car then said he "had to do 57mph" just to catch up with me.
I bit at that. I pointed out that I was doing roughly half of that speed, so he didn't need to do double the limit to catch up with me. As soon as I said that, the mood changed and he immediately got really shirty and his exact words were: "If you're going to get picky with us, I'm going to get picky with you and give you a warning, and if you do it again your car will be seized and crushed".
So yeah, after that he went away, wrote out a Section 59 notice for "inconsiderate driving" and called it in and asked for it to be logged against my car registration. They they kept me there for 5-10mins whilst they had a chat amongst themselves and eventually let me go.
it just seems ridiculous. I did nothing wrong, in fact the whole road is littered with speed cameras (and red light cameras which I think double up as speed cameras?). For me to have been going to speeds they said, I'd have to be constantly speeding up and braking to avoid setting the cameras off. But because I said one thing that wasn't "please sir, sorry sir", I've now got a marker on the car and will get the car seized if I do the same thing again, whatever that is.
So, can I:
- Appeal this and get it removed?
- Find out what the notice is actually for? e.g. was it alleged speeding with no evidence, going too fast for conditions (though I dispute that), or something else?
Cardiff, or at least, just outside of the city centre. I should say I've had to make a guess at which corner it actually was. They pulled me over on a dead straight road, and there's two slight bends about half a mile before they pulled me over. I think it would have probably been this one:
It seems like they pulled me over as I was the only car on the road at that time of morning, and then just tried to find something to do me for.
It seems like they pulled me over as I was the only car on the road at that time of morning, and then just tried to find something to do me for.
mx5tom said:
- Appeal this and get it removed?
mx5tom said:
- Find out what the notice is actually for? e.g. was it alleged speeding with no evidence, going too fast for conditions (though I dispute that), or something else?
Terrible legislation.
Jakg said:
Nope
Thought as much. :@Jakg said:
Anti-Social Behaviour - "Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance".
Do they have to log a specific reason, though? There was no one around to cause alarm, distress, or annoyance to (other than the police... the one did seem pretty annoyed). Even if there were people there, or if it was enough for them to think it could have caused alarm/distress/annoyance if someone had been there, I don't know what I could have done that fits into that description.It's not the normal case of a loud exhaust or loud music... it's the standard exhaust, no loud music... I really struggle to see how anyone could be distressed by it.
It's a corner- yes. But it's more than safe enough to take at the speed limit! It's not like it's some single track, mountainside hairpin.
Section 59 is very open to abuse - arguably as a consequence of the nature of the behaviour it targets.
More to the point the second and final report could be just as iffy as the first one, with similarly little recourse: having been nabbed once I'd be getting front and rear dashcams a bit sharpish - as well as driving like Miss Daisy's chauffeur.
More to the point the second and final report could be just as iffy as the first one, with similarly little recourse: having been nabbed once I'd be getting front and rear dashcams a bit sharpish - as well as driving like Miss Daisy's chauffeur.
Police officers telling lies in order to harass a member of the public?
Come of it. I'll never believe that for a second.
Next, you'll be telling me they'd lie on oath in court to secure a minor motoring conviction, then threaten you outside the courtroom that they were now "really gonna have you".
It's all utter nonsense.
Suffice to say, if the police ever need my help these days, they don't get it.
"Did you see anything?"
"Nope, not a thing officer. Good day."
Come of it. I'll never believe that for a second.
Next, you'll be telling me they'd lie on oath in court to secure a minor motoring conviction, then threaten you outside the courtroom that they were now "really gonna have you".
It's all utter nonsense.
Suffice to say, if the police ever need my help these days, they don't get it.
"Did you see anything?"
"Nope, not a thing officer. Good day."
Silver940 said:
So if you sell the car does that mean the next owner gets attention with your section 59 logged against the reg? Must be able to get that removed somehow in those circumstances?
Not that I would suggest selling your car to a relative and then buying it back..
No idea. From a quick and lazy Google last night, I found lots of people complaining about being pulled over a lot more after getting one, and similarly after buying a car that had a S59 logged against it for the previous owner. No idea if that's true, obviously. Not that I would suggest selling your car to a relative and then buying it back..
It's the first time I've been pulled over in about 5 years, so it'll be interesting to see if the frequency of stops changes...
From asking around, I've been told by a few friends who've got multiple warnings that it basically means nothing, they've never had their car seized, and it's not worth making a fuss over. It's just f
king annoying that it's (seemingly) over nothing! If I was doing something stupid I'd hold my hand up and say it.Bit of an alarm bell ringing here...
You've got one....
You have several friends who have had them multiple times....
This really isn't ordinary. I know of absolutely nobody who has ever received one of these, and nobody I know knows anyone either. I know that doesn't prove very much, if anything, but I do wonder why you know so many people who have had so many S59s.....
You've got one....
You have several friends who have had them multiple times....
This really isn't ordinary. I know of absolutely nobody who has ever received one of these, and nobody I know knows anyone either. I know that doesn't prove very much, if anything, but I do wonder why you know so many people who have had so many S59s.....
zarjaz1991 said:
Bit of an alarm bell ringing here...
You've got one....
You have several friends who have had them multiple times....
This really isn't ordinary. I know of absolutely nobody who has ever received one of these, and nobody I know knows anyone either. I know that doesn't prove very much, if anything, but I do wonder why you know so many people who have had so many S59s.....
Yes, guilty by association... I don't know why they have them, when they had them, etc. As I said, I've not been pulled over in around/over 5 years. I'm not saying I've never done anything wrong, but there's a time and a place and I like to think that having a bit of common sense about where/when I'd do things that could get me into trouble has served me pretty well.You've got one....
You have several friends who have had them multiple times....
This really isn't ordinary. I know of absolutely nobody who has ever received one of these, and nobody I know knows anyone either. I know that doesn't prove very much, if anything, but I do wonder why you know so many people who have had so many S59s.....
In this case, I really don't think I did anything wrong. I wasn't speeding, I wasn't doing anything stupid. They could argue it was too fast for the conditions, though I'd very much disagree with that as per reasons in my first post. They also didn't actually say what I allegedly did wrong, other than suggest I was speeding and then issue a warning for being inconsiderate!
zarjaz1991 said:
Bit of an alarm bell ringing here...
You've got one....
You have several friends who have had them multiple times....
This really isn't ordinary. I know of absolutely nobody who has ever received one of these, and nobody I know knows anyone either. I know that doesn't prove very much, if anything, but I do wonder why you know so many people who have had so many S59s.....
I know one person who received one.You've got one....
You have several friends who have had them multiple times....
This really isn't ordinary. I know of absolutely nobody who has ever received one of these, and nobody I know knows anyone either. I know that doesn't prove very much, if anything, but I do wonder why you know so many people who have had so many S59s.....
A pedestrian reported him for the way he was driving through a village.
It wasn't hard for the police to tie it all together, because he only got another mile or three before having to have his now-written-off car (with trailer and contents) craned out of a ditch after he "didn't notice" a stationary 4x4 in the middle of the road waiting to turn right...
Even he accepted the pedestrian might have had a point.
zarjaz1991 said:
Bit of an alarm bell ringing here...
You've got one....
You have several friends who have had them multiple times....
This really isn't ordinary. I know of absolutely nobody who has ever received one of these, and nobody I know knows anyone either. I know that doesn't prove very much, if anything, but I do wonder why you know so many people who have had so many S59s.....
This.You've got one....
You have several friends who have had them multiple times....
This really isn't ordinary. I know of absolutely nobody who has ever received one of these, and nobody I know knows anyone either. I know that doesn't prove very much, if anything, but I do wonder why you know so many people who have had so many S59s.....
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