Comment please ?
Discussion
Firstly credentials:
3 TVRs from new since Oct 98 - Griff 500 2 years 24k, Tuscan 3 years 47k, Tuscan 18 months 17.5k. I've taken care to run my cars in and have always had them rigorously serviced at standard intervals and whenever any issues have arisen. I do not consider that I drive my cars particularly hard, although they do get used daily (never for commuting)....Oh....and maybe a track day each year.
I therefore believe that I understand the TVR 'ownership experience' as well as most and although I've had the odd grumble from time to time have always found that owning and driving
the cars has put any niggles into insignificant perspective.
However, my current Tuscan is causing me some problems.
History highlights (lowlights?):
1) Usual TVR 1st year niggles (though more than I recall having with my Griffith and 1st (early) Tuscan - all resolved by dealer
2) 6k - engine rebuild (to correct engine whine) - at factory, subsequent completion of 6k service by dealer. Car back from factory with soaking carpets behind driver seat and no driver footwell carpet (returned from factory in Nov, replacement carpet recieved in March)
3) 10k - clutch failure (fluid leak from slave cylinder) corrected by dealer
4) 12k - engine rebuild (to correct the same whine) PLUS correction of complete clutch failure due to fluid leak from slave cylinder (2 days before due to go to factory for 2nd engine rebuild) - both resolved at factory, subsequent completion of 12k service by dealer
Present:
It's in for its 18k service BUT the service has also highlighted:
1) Front indicator bulbs faded to white
2) Brake/reversing light electrical short
3) Front Brake pads seized into calipers (due to corroded clips)
4) Oil pressure gauge sender leak
5) Rear Upper Wishbones - 4 new bushes required (chassis resting on wishbones)
6) Tappetty rattle - Valve gaps badly adjusted (1 particularly hardly opening at all)
7) Radiator Leak - requires replacement radiator
8) Cracked main fuel hose (tank to pump)
9) Leak in clutch slave cylinder - requires replacement
Total £2200+ (ish) (without including the valve problem)
Current position:
- I've agreed some work but consider the Valves and Clutch a warranty issue given its factory history.
- I consider a cracked main fuel hose and corroded brake clips a potential safety recall issue
- Wishbones, radiator, indicator bulbs SHOULD still be warranty issues - but of course I'll have to pay. Though now I come to think of it, 4 rotten suspension bushes in 18k miles sounds like a safety issue again.
- Oil sender, Brake/reversing lights - normal TVR niggles
The dealer has now had the car a week and is waiting for the factory to decide (since last Wed/Thurs) which, if any of these issues can be done under factory warranty.
I need the car back and in full fettle by Friday as it is booked on a ferry at the weekend and is due to spend at least a month on the continent. If no descison is taken soon I suspect this may mean I'll also lose the cost of the return ferry ticket.
In the 18 months I've owned this Tuscan I have not had use of it (or in fact even had sight of it) due to Factory issues for some 3 or possibly now 4 months ie 1/5(ish) of the time of ownership and I've also had to run the car in 3 times - 1/5 of the total milage.
During these periods my dealer (who I actually rate very highly indeed) has always supplied me with a courtesy car on behalf of TVR.......a Toyota Yaris. I have of course been paying the outstanding loan on my car for 100% of this time.
In the above, I've tried to be as objective as I can in the circumstances and please bear in mind that mileage and timings are approximate and based on my rapidly failing memory or perhaps I've just blanked out the expensive and depressing parts of the last year and a half.
I'd appreciate any views.
3 TVRs from new since Oct 98 - Griff 500 2 years 24k, Tuscan 3 years 47k, Tuscan 18 months 17.5k. I've taken care to run my cars in and have always had them rigorously serviced at standard intervals and whenever any issues have arisen. I do not consider that I drive my cars particularly hard, although they do get used daily (never for commuting)....Oh....and maybe a track day each year.
I therefore believe that I understand the TVR 'ownership experience' as well as most and although I've had the odd grumble from time to time have always found that owning and driving
the cars has put any niggles into insignificant perspective.
However, my current Tuscan is causing me some problems.
History highlights (lowlights?):
1) Usual TVR 1st year niggles (though more than I recall having with my Griffith and 1st (early) Tuscan - all resolved by dealer
2) 6k - engine rebuild (to correct engine whine) - at factory, subsequent completion of 6k service by dealer. Car back from factory with soaking carpets behind driver seat and no driver footwell carpet (returned from factory in Nov, replacement carpet recieved in March)
3) 10k - clutch failure (fluid leak from slave cylinder) corrected by dealer
4) 12k - engine rebuild (to correct the same whine) PLUS correction of complete clutch failure due to fluid leak from slave cylinder (2 days before due to go to factory for 2nd engine rebuild) - both resolved at factory, subsequent completion of 12k service by dealer
Present:
It's in for its 18k service BUT the service has also highlighted:
1) Front indicator bulbs faded to white
2) Brake/reversing light electrical short
3) Front Brake pads seized into calipers (due to corroded clips)
4) Oil pressure gauge sender leak
5) Rear Upper Wishbones - 4 new bushes required (chassis resting on wishbones)
6) Tappetty rattle - Valve gaps badly adjusted (1 particularly hardly opening at all)
7) Radiator Leak - requires replacement radiator
8) Cracked main fuel hose (tank to pump)
9) Leak in clutch slave cylinder - requires replacement
Total £2200+ (ish) (without including the valve problem)
Current position:
- I've agreed some work but consider the Valves and Clutch a warranty issue given its factory history.
- I consider a cracked main fuel hose and corroded brake clips a potential safety recall issue
- Wishbones, radiator, indicator bulbs SHOULD still be warranty issues - but of course I'll have to pay. Though now I come to think of it, 4 rotten suspension bushes in 18k miles sounds like a safety issue again.
- Oil sender, Brake/reversing lights - normal TVR niggles
The dealer has now had the car a week and is waiting for the factory to decide (since last Wed/Thurs) which, if any of these issues can be done under factory warranty.
I need the car back and in full fettle by Friday as it is booked on a ferry at the weekend and is due to spend at least a month on the continent. If no descison is taken soon I suspect this may mean I'll also lose the cost of the return ferry ticket.
In the 18 months I've owned this Tuscan I have not had use of it (or in fact even had sight of it) due to Factory issues for some 3 or possibly now 4 months ie 1/5(ish) of the time of ownership and I've also had to run the car in 3 times - 1/5 of the total milage.
During these periods my dealer (who I actually rate very highly indeed) has always supplied me with a courtesy car on behalf of TVR.......a Toyota Yaris. I have of course been paying the outstanding loan on my car for 100% of this time.
In the above, I've tried to be as objective as I can in the circumstances and please bear in mind that mileage and timings are approximate and based on my rapidly failing memory or perhaps I've just blanked out the expensive and depressing parts of the last year and a half.
I'd appreciate any views.
Tough breaks, I sympathise.
When they are bad, they are bad. With no real solution on the horizon I'd say the time has come to draw stumps. (You'll never trust it)
When I had a Tuscan, I insisted on a TVR as a loan car whilst mine was u/s. That eased a lot of the pain!!
Good luck.
Steve
When they are bad, they are bad. With no real solution on the horizon I'd say the time has come to draw stumps. (You'll never trust it)
When I had a Tuscan, I insisted on a TVR as a loan car whilst mine was u/s. That eased a lot of the pain!!
Good luck.
Steve
I sympathise with you mate. A few pistonheaders have been through similar and MUCH WORSE...
When the goings good, its fabulous and worth every penny... but when its not so good, its a daunting and frustrating experience and a half...
Like NS said in the CAR review a month or so ago, 50% of his customers send in good feedback, and the other 50% complaints....
When the goings good, its fabulous and worth every penny... but when its not so good, its a daunting and frustrating experience and a half...
Like NS said in the CAR review a month or so ago, 50% of his customers send in good feedback, and the other 50% complaints....
A very well constucted view without the sometimes hysterical attitude. I think you have been unfortunate and dealt with the problems with an open mind. Maybe you just have a rogue car. I dont think all Tuscs suffer the same as yours and you say your dealer has been very helpful. Not a lot of use but I do sympathise and think I would have given up by now. What to say but I hope your probs get finally sorted to your satisfaction and your experience doesnt put you off future TVR ownership.
Good luck.
Di
Good luck.
Di
Brux said:
Firstly credentials:
3 TVRs from new since Oct 98 - Griff 500 2 years 24k, Tuscan 3 years 47k, Tuscan 18 months 17.5k. I've taken care to run my cars in and have always had them rigorously serviced at standard intervals and whenever any issues have arisen. I do not consider that I drive my cars particularly hard, although they do get used daily (never for commuting)....Oh....and maybe a track day each year.
I therefore believe that I understand the TVR 'ownership experience' as well as most and although I've had the odd grumble from time to time have always found that owning and driving
the cars has put any niggles into insignificant perspective.
However, my current Tuscan is causing me some problems.
History highlights (lowlights?):
1) Usual TVR 1st year niggles (though more than I recall having with my Griffith and 1st (early) Tuscan - all resolved by dealer
2) 6k - engine rebuild (to correct engine whine) - at factory, subsequent completion of 6k service by dealer. Car back from factory with soaking carpets behind driver seat and no driver footwell carpet (returned from factory in Nov, replacement carpet recieved in March)
3) 10k - clutch failure (fluid leak from slave cylinder) corrected by dealer
4) 12k - engine rebuild (to correct the same whine) PLUS correction of complete clutch failure due to fluid leak from slave cylinder (2 days before due to go to factory for 2nd engine rebuild) - both resolved at factory, subsequent completion of 12k service by dealer
Present:
It's in for its 18k service BUT the service has also highlighted:
1) Front indicator bulbs faded to white
2) Brake/reversing light electrical short
3) Front Brake pads seized into calipers (due to corroded clips)
4) Oil pressure gauge sender leak
5) Rear Upper Wishbones - 4 new bushes required (chassis resting on wishbones)
6) Tappetty rattle - Valve gaps badly adjusted (1 particularly hardly opening at all)
7) Radiator Leak - requires replacement radiator
8) Cracked main fuel hose (tank to pump)
9) Leak in clutch slave cylinder - requires replacement
Total £2200+ (ish) (without including the valve problem)
Current position:
- I've agreed some work but consider the Valves and Clutch a warranty issue given its factory history.
- I consider a cracked main fuel hose and corroded brake clips a potential safety recall issue
- Wishbones, radiator, indicator bulbs SHOULD still be warranty issues - but of course I'll have to pay. Though now I come to think of it, 4 rotten suspension bushes in 18k miles sounds like a safety issue again.
- Oil sender, Brake/reversing lights - normal TVR niggles
The dealer has now had the car a week and is waiting for the factory to decide (since last Wed/Thurs) which, if any of these issues can be done under factory warranty.
I need the car back and in full fettle by Friday as it is booked on a ferry at the weekend and is due to spend at least a month on the continent. If no descison is taken soon I suspect this may mean I'll also lose the cost of the return ferry ticket.
In the 18 months I've owned this Tuscan I have not had use of it (or in fact even had sight of it) due to Factory issues for some 3 or possibly now 4 months ie 1/5(ish) of the time of ownership and I've also had to run the car in 3 times - 1/5 of the total milage.
During these periods my dealer (who I actually rate very highly indeed) has always supplied me with a courtesy car on behalf of TVR.......a Toyota Yaris. I have of course been paying the outstanding loan on my car for 100% of this time.
In the above, I've tried to be as objective as I can in the circumstances and please bear in mind that mileage and timings are approximate and based on my rapidly failing memory or perhaps I've just blanked out the expensive and depressing parts of the last year and a half.
I'd appreciate any views.
I'm surprised that the pad retaining clips have corroded, they are usually made from stainless steel. I would suspect that it is the aluminium that is corroding perhaps due to roadsalt. I would have expected your service agent to have noticed any defect on an earlier service and put things right.
The wishbone bushes won't last long on any TVR, driven as it should be driven. 18K is good going in my opinion.
The radiatior again may be affected by salt corrosion or stone damage.
The engine issues and the fuel hose cracking are definately warranty, the trouble is i don't think the right amount of time or build quality goes into a rebuilt engine. If you check out my previous posts on the engine issues you will get my point.
When you say that you use your car daily, what sort of ditances are you travelling. Often engine problems arise from cool running.
Maybe you should take your car to a good Indie like Joolz as personally i feel that most car dealers are running against the clock using clueless teenagers as cheap labour.
As an aside, i've just bought another car to add to my collection, which has had full main dealer service history from new, the latest just a couple of hundred miles prior to purchase. I won't go into details suffice to say i'm appalled at the quality of the work carried out.
I'm tempted to say "Well constructed ...unlike the car!" - but that would be too easy and I'd never d......ah!
I'm tempted to agree with the "bad 'un" comments since my previous Tuscan wasn't half as bad as this and that was a relatively early one.
With regard to:
Salt - possibly with the brakes though the raditor problem is a split seam supposedly.
Wishbone bushes - I seem to recall replacing them once (maybe twice) in 48k on my previous Tuscan - so perhaps my driving is improving (errrr or perhaps not)
Re distances: I have never commuted or 'shopped' in my cars the high milages are due to my love of driving - basically I've done approx 12+k a year for the fun of it. I'm generally very aware of engine temperature/cool running etc so this shoudn't be the issue.
PS If you want hysteria...I can do that too!
I'm tempted to agree with the "bad 'un" comments since my previous Tuscan wasn't half as bad as this and that was a relatively early one.
With regard to:
Salt - possibly with the brakes though the raditor problem is a split seam supposedly.
Wishbone bushes - I seem to recall replacing them once (maybe twice) in 48k on my previous Tuscan - so perhaps my driving is improving (errrr or perhaps not)
Re distances: I have never commuted or 'shopped' in my cars the high milages are due to my love of driving - basically I've done approx 12+k a year for the fun of it. I'm generally very aware of engine temperature/cool running etc so this shoudn't be the issue.
PS If you want hysteria...I can do that too!
Phoenix said:
Like NS said in the CAR review a month or so ago, 50% of his customers send in good feedback, and the other 50% complaints....
50% complaints but he talked about the Tuscan I, the other 50% are some Tuscan II owners!!
>> Edited by TVRspirit on Wednesday 13th April 09:50
Like NS said in the CAR review a month or so ago, 50% of his customers send in good feedback, and the other 50% complaints....
50% complaints but he talked about the Tuscan I, the other 50% are some Tuscan II owners!!
>> Edited by TVRspirit on Wednesday 13th April 09:50
Brux said:
Firstly credentials:
3 TVRs from new since Oct 98 - Griff 500 2 years 24k, Tuscan 3 years 47k, Tuscan 18 months 17.5k. I've taken care to run my cars in and have always had them rigorously serviced at standard intervals and whenever any issues have arisen. I do not consider that I drive my cars particularly hard, although they do get used daily (never for commuting)....Oh....and maybe a track day each year.
I therefore believe that I understand the TVR 'ownership experience' as well as most and although I've had the odd grumble from time to time have always found that owning and driving
the cars has put any niggles into insignificant perspective.
However, my current Tuscan is causing me some problems.
History highlights (lowlights?):
1) Usual TVR 1st year niggles (though more than I recall having with my Griffith and 1st (early) Tuscan - all resolved by dealer
2) 6k - engine rebuild (to correct engine whine) - at factory, subsequent completion of 6k service by dealer. Car back from factory with soaking carpets behind driver seat and no driver footwell carpet (returned from factory in Nov, replacement carpet recieved in March)
3) 10k - clutch failure (fluid leak from slave cylinder) corrected by dealer
4) 12k - engine rebuild (to correct the same whine) PLUS correction of complete clutch failure due to fluid leak from slave cylinder (2 days before due to go to factory for 2nd engine rebuild) - both resolved at factory, subsequent completion of 12k service by dealer
Present:
It's in for its 18k service BUT the service has also highlighted:
1) Front indicator bulbs faded to white
2) Brake/reversing light electrical short
3) Front Brake pads seized into calipers (due to corroded clips)
4) Oil pressure gauge sender leak
5) Rear Upper Wishbones - 4 new bushes required (chassis resting on wishbones)
6) Tappetty rattle - Valve gaps badly adjusted (1 particularly hardly opening at all)
7) Radiator Leak - requires replacement radiator
8) Cracked main fuel hose (tank to pump)
9) Leak in clutch slave cylinder - requires replacement
Total £2200+ (ish) (without including the valve problem)
Current position:
- I've agreed some work but consider the Valves and Clutch a warranty issue given its factory history.
- I consider a cracked main fuel hose and corroded brake clips a potential safety recall issue
- Wishbones, radiator, indicator bulbs SHOULD still be warranty issues - but of course I'll have to pay. Though now I come to think of it, 4 rotten suspension bushes in 18k miles sounds like a safety issue again.
- Oil sender, Brake/reversing lights - normal TVR niggles
The dealer has now had the car a week and is waiting for the factory to decide (since last Wed/Thurs) which, if any of these issues can be done under factory warranty.
I need the car back and in full fettle by Friday as it is booked on a ferry at the weekend and is due to spend at least a month on the continent. If no descison is taken soon I suspect this may mean I'll also lose the cost of the return ferry ticket.
In the 18 months I've owned this Tuscan I have not had use of it (or in fact even had sight of it) due to Factory issues for some 3 or possibly now 4 months ie 1/5(ish) of the time of ownership and I've also had to run the car in 3 times - 1/5 of the total milage.
During these periods my dealer (who I actually rate very highly indeed) has always supplied me with a courtesy car on behalf of TVR.......a Toyota Yaris. I have of course been paying the outstanding loan on my car for 100% of this time.
In the above, I've tried to be as objective as I can in the circumstances and please bear in mind that mileage and timings are approximate and based on my rapidly failing memory or perhaps I've just blanked out the expensive and depressing parts of the last year and a half.
I'd appreciate any views.
Sounds like you have had a pretty tough 18 months of ownership. I think it's really your choice whether you still love the car despite it's faults (and history) or whether you just want to go put a deposite on the new Porsche Caymen (Boxter Coupe).. a real drivers car apparently (at TVR prices 50K).
Would say you've been "relatively unlucky"... unluckier than some, not as unlucky as others. Relative to the rest of the car market particularly unlucky. Relative to Tuscan ownership, not hugely unluckier than many other owners.
As it stands, I'd have serious words with the dealer involved. If you bought new, especially, I'd want some SERIOUS goodwill for being a car that is, really, not fit for the road. (And I'm willing to have that argument with anyone - any modern car that's on its THIRD engine by 13k miles, and STILL has issues is plain unacceptable). Personally, I'd sell it and buy a Jag.
Or, if you don't want to act like a 70 year old retired accountant, I'd figure out how long you've been without the car, put a carefully contstructed case forwards for how much "above and beyond acceptable ownership" this has been, and get a clear view of how you want to resolve it with the dealer. Whether it's trading to a similar (or slightly newer) car for free, whether it's free servicing for X period of time, whether it's buying it back off you at something considerably higher than trade.
Whatever you decide, I'd say that people are generally far too forgiving and accepting of things simply not being good enough. If you've paid for a product and/or service, and it's not what was promised/etc. then something should be done about it...
As it stands, I'd have serious words with the dealer involved. If you bought new, especially, I'd want some SERIOUS goodwill for being a car that is, really, not fit for the road. (And I'm willing to have that argument with anyone - any modern car that's on its THIRD engine by 13k miles, and STILL has issues is plain unacceptable). Personally, I'd sell it and buy a Jag.
Or, if you don't want to act like a 70 year old retired accountant, I'd figure out how long you've been without the car, put a carefully contstructed case forwards for how much "above and beyond acceptable ownership" this has been, and get a clear view of how you want to resolve it with the dealer. Whether it's trading to a similar (or slightly newer) car for free, whether it's free servicing for X period of time, whether it's buying it back off you at something considerably higher than trade. Whatever you decide, I'd say that people are generally far too forgiving and accepting of things simply not being good enough. If you've paid for a product and/or service, and it's not what was promised/etc. then something should be done about it...
Not being a SP6 owner I cannot say from experience but would make the following comments on your present list:
1) Standard consumable non-TVR off-the-shelf item, a few pence to buy.
2) Warranty
3) Warranty
4) Warranty
5) May be a consumable, talk to dealer about their experience of these.
6) Valve adjustment is a payable service item (I believe)
7) Warranty
8) Warranty
9) Warranty - from your comments it has already been 'fixed' twice, I would suggest that they look at the mounting, maybe it is not properly fitted.
Good luck!
1) Standard consumable non-TVR off-the-shelf item, a few pence to buy.
2) Warranty
3) Warranty
4) Warranty
5) May be a consumable, talk to dealer about their experience of these.
6) Valve adjustment is a payable service item (I believe)
7) Warranty
8) Warranty
9) Warranty - from your comments it has already been 'fixed' twice, I would suggest that they look at the mounting, maybe it is not properly fitted.
Good luck!
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