Hi Fi question
Discussion
Been trying to get a straight answer from some of the Hi Fi forums which have succeded in telling me everything and nothing, so it't back to PH for some good old fashion "tell it how is" advice.
Is the Arcam AV300 receiver and Arcam DV79 DVD player as good as they say at playing CDs as well as Movies?
Is the Arcam AV300 receiver and Arcam DV79 DVD player as good as they say at playing CDs as well as Movies?
angusfaldo said:
Is the Arcam AV300 receiver and Arcam DV79 DVD player as good as they say at playing CDs as well as Movies?
What do they say?
The magazines rekon that the audio reproduction is top-drawer, despite having spent several years saying that you don't get decent audio from a home cinema system.
I've found that the reviews in some magazines varies (and audio is after all about personal preference) and I've yet to find a HiFi store with both units available for a demo.
I'm as much into music as I am films so the choice is:
The Arcam system - two boxes and £2,300
or
A DVD/Amp and receiver PLUS a CD player and Amp (or pre and power amp combo) (as well as two additional front speakers) - also about £2,300.
Ummm... I spent ages trying to decide what to do about the whole home cinema / stereo debate last year... I ended up finding the speakers (Dynaudio) I liked first, mainly due to the guys at reading hifi, they didn't try and tell me what I was hearing, they told me what they thought then demoed whatever I wanted, then I decided the only Amp that fitted the bill was the Denon AVC 11SR seemed to have all the qualities of the good £1000 ish stereo amps and 7 channels of it... fantastic all round product in my book.
one word of warning, I know all the hifi magazines like the misson and Arcam products, but they were demoed to me in a number of different rooms to be shown up by almost all the competition, Naim beat them hands down for imaging although a bit harsh though, made me realise I wounldn't be able to listen to some of my cd's which meant that stuff was out, heard some other stuff, but I guess it's upto you, I've since heard lots very expensive kit, at shows and demoed properly and the gains over the ammount of money I spent and the mark levinson stuff seem to be not too worth the money, although that said, when / if I can afford it I'll be getting some levinson stuff :-) not sure any of that was any help at all... so get yourself down to a good dealer and do some listening and remember to take your music and films. if there good they'll leave you alone to play and listen.
one word of warning, I know all the hifi magazines like the misson and Arcam products, but they were demoed to me in a number of different rooms to be shown up by almost all the competition, Naim beat them hands down for imaging although a bit harsh though, made me realise I wounldn't be able to listen to some of my cd's which meant that stuff was out, heard some other stuff, but I guess it's upto you, I've since heard lots very expensive kit, at shows and demoed properly and the gains over the ammount of money I spent and the mark levinson stuff seem to be not too worth the money, although that said, when / if I can afford it I'll be getting some levinson stuff :-) not sure any of that was any help at all... so get yourself down to a good dealer and do some listening and remember to take your music and films. if there good they'll leave you alone to play and listen.
I agree with Angry.
I used to buy a lot of stuff from a specialist dealer in St Albans. But they closed down. The buying experience taught me two things.
Every time I went in they would have stock depending on what the current Hi-Fi mag favourites were. They knew that people would buy on recommendation alone and they hated that from an audiophile perspective. But of course they also wanted to make a profit and so had to stock what people want.
Then they went out of business because people would come in for advice but then buy on the internet.
When spending big money on Hi-Fi the only thing to do is set aside your prejudices and go and listen. I like Arcam stuff a lot which is why I have one of their CD players. But I think there are way better amps out there for the money. Are they really better or worse amps? Or is that just my opinion. Well that's the point. I went for Quad amplification because it sounds right to me. Go and have a listen to some stuff (and don't hesitate to take along material that you are very familiar with so that you can really guage the quality of the output.
Whatever you get at the kind of money you're talking about will be good. Listening to it before buying will enable you to get it just right. Good luck and leave your credit cards at home otherwise your 2k budget will quickly become 3 or 4k actually spent
I used to buy a lot of stuff from a specialist dealer in St Albans. But they closed down. The buying experience taught me two things.
Every time I went in they would have stock depending on what the current Hi-Fi mag favourites were. They knew that people would buy on recommendation alone and they hated that from an audiophile perspective. But of course they also wanted to make a profit and so had to stock what people want.
Then they went out of business because people would come in for advice but then buy on the internet.
When spending big money on Hi-Fi the only thing to do is set aside your prejudices and go and listen. I like Arcam stuff a lot which is why I have one of their CD players. But I think there are way better amps out there for the money. Are they really better or worse amps? Or is that just my opinion. Well that's the point. I went for Quad amplification because it sounds right to me. Go and have a listen to some stuff (and don't hesitate to take along material that you are very familiar with so that you can really guage the quality of the output.
Whatever you get at the kind of money you're talking about will be good. Listening to it before buying will enable you to get it just right. Good luck and leave your credit cards at home otherwise your 2k budget will quickly become 3 or 4k actually spent
Thanks!
Your reply also confirms my doubts over the test reviews in some of the mags.
BTW, I always thought the opera scene in the Fifth Element is a good a test as any for HC systems. I've also been told that church organ music is a good test for audio. Some pieces can actually destroy bad speakers apparently!
Your reply also confirms my doubts over the test reviews in some of the mags.
BTW, I always thought the opera scene in the Fifth Element is a good a test as any for HC systems. I've also been told that church organ music is a good test for audio. Some pieces can actually destroy bad speakers apparently!
Personally, I wouldn't consider using the same amp for home cinema and music CD's. I have a pretty good Harman Kardon hifi setup with tannoy dual concentric speakers. My home cinema kit is also HK but 5.1 with sub and small midrange speakers.
IMHO the two systems are crucially different in their aims. You wouldn't expect a lorry to do good 1/4 mile times or a drag racer to haul heavy loads.
Luckily I have the space for large floorstanding speakers and also the satellite type. Otherwise I would possibly be forced to choose between them.
IMHO the two systems are crucially different in their aims. You wouldn't expect a lorry to do good 1/4 mile times or a drag racer to haul heavy loads.
Luckily I have the space for large floorstanding speakers and also the satellite type. Otherwise I would possibly be forced to choose between them.
Going back to the original question. I have just changed my main amp to an Arcam AVR200 (the previous model to the 300) from a Naim 62/SNAPS/140 and also sold my Meridian 200 CD Transport. The speakers are fairly hard to drive Shahinian Arcs.
IMHO The Arcam produces a very refined sound, not as punchy as the Naim combo but very detailed. For Home Cinema it is awesome, producing superb midrange (voices are very natural). It can't quite rock as well as the Naims but it is a one-box solution and has high WAF and a remote (which my Naims didn't).
The Meridian 200 Transport has been replaced by a Squeezebox still with the Meridian 203 DAC and supplemented by a Denon 2910. The 2910 is deceptively good on CD playback, but its a little coarse, I would expect the Arcam DVD player to produce a cleaner sound, but all the same its very listenable to. (But the squeeze box with a modded power supply and a half decent DAC is great).
If you want great stereo then I wouldn't go down the AV combo route, go for two seperate systems, but for a simple two box solution the Arcam will do what is says on the tin.
davidy
PS Beware of magazines that give five stars on advert revenue. Use your ears and your eyes (for AV of course!)
IMHO The Arcam produces a very refined sound, not as punchy as the Naim combo but very detailed. For Home Cinema it is awesome, producing superb midrange (voices are very natural). It can't quite rock as well as the Naims but it is a one-box solution and has high WAF and a remote (which my Naims didn't).
The Meridian 200 Transport has been replaced by a Squeezebox still with the Meridian 203 DAC and supplemented by a Denon 2910. The 2910 is deceptively good on CD playback, but its a little coarse, I would expect the Arcam DVD player to produce a cleaner sound, but all the same its very listenable to. (But the squeeze box with a modded power supply and a half decent DAC is great).
If you want great stereo then I wouldn't go down the AV combo route, go for two seperate systems, but for a simple two box solution the Arcam will do what is says on the tin.
davidy
PS Beware of magazines that give five stars on advert revenue. Use your ears and your eyes (for AV of course!)
angusfaldo said:
Whatever you get at the kind of money you're talking about will be good.
Exactly! Some of you guys must have super human hearing. I can tell the difference between a 5K set up and a cheap and nasty Alba jobby (or even that and a mid range Sony/Pioneer midi system
). But I’ve just gone through the process of spending quite a lot of wedge on a home cinema/hi-fi set up and whilst the sound quality over cheaper equipment was very tangible, trying to tell the difference between the sound reproduction of a Marantz SC7500 versus a NAD T763 for example was damn near impossible. They both sounded superb. If I’m honest I ended up buying on features versus price plus what I’d read in the reviews.
And yes I use my (supposedly) primarily home cinema amp and speakers for stereo playback (Marantz SC7500 with Monitor Bronze). I’ve even undertake the heathen practice of plugging my iPod into it and playing back MP3’s. Someone flog me and burn me at the stake. Just let me listen to my music whilst your doing it
I just sold some of my hifi to finance the impending Boxster...had flagship Dynaudio Confidence 5 speakers...well i still do but they're for sale on ebay.
At one point i had over 20k's worth of hifi gear...now its a shadow of its former self...but on the other hand..i got a convertible Porker!
Krell, Rotel, Tag Mclaren, Levinson...had it all really...some of it crap...some of it good. However what i really interesting is the stuff coming out of China these days.
I imported many items from China...monoblock power amps for £1k that would completely blow away anything made in this country including the highend Naim gear)
2 channel forever!
Richard
At one point i had over 20k's worth of hifi gear...now its a shadow of its former self...but on the other hand..i got a convertible Porker!
Krell, Rotel, Tag Mclaren, Levinson...had it all really...some of it crap...some of it good. However what i really interesting is the stuff coming out of China these days.
I imported many items from China...monoblock power amps for £1k that would completely blow away anything made in this country including the highend Naim gear
) 2 channel forever!
Richard
I always found that the Arcam gear sounded really amazing when it had been custom-installed within a room. I know a lot of the new-build superior-construction housing firms will use Arcam in their design, so that the system is designed for that specific room.
Personally I like NAD for their performance/cost balance, although I still don't think I'd use a single player for both cd and dvd, unless space or cost was specifically an issue. A very good DVD player can be had for £500 now, and similarly a very good cd player can be had for around the same. I truly think a lot of people who spend more than this are kidding themselves that they can tell the difference. I'm not saying this is always the case, just sometimes.
Personally I like NAD for their performance/cost balance, although I still don't think I'd use a single player for both cd and dvd, unless space or cost was specifically an issue. A very good DVD player can be had for £500 now, and similarly a very good cd player can be had for around the same. I truly think a lot of people who spend more than this are kidding themselves that they can tell the difference. I'm not saying this is always the case, just sometimes.
fishtek69 said:
I truly think a lot of people who spend more than this are kidding themselves that they can tell the difference. I'm not saying this is always the case, just sometimes.
I think you're right - although if you have the dosh and the interest, it's always nice to have nice kit.
You can now buy a specialist HiFi Power Lead for £75 that's supposed to improve sound quality. Mmmm! Think that may be pushing the window a bit!
Thanks for the advice chaps. Seperate systems appears to take the vote!
steviebee said:
You can now buy a specialist HiFi Power Lead for £75 that's supposed to improve sound quality. Mmmm! Think that may be pushing the window a bit!
Funny you should mention that
Some people report the best value in terms of quality increase per Pound comes from a decent mains conditioner. Cheaper end amps achieve their lower prices by, among other things, using a cheap transformer. The circuitry in an amp des benefit from a decent spply of mains. Higher end amps tend to be very heavy baecause they incorporate huge transformers. I've not got one but I've heard people make good reports about them.
The crazy guys are the ones who spend 100s of pounds per metre on cabling. But hey whatever floats your boat
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