Dropped kerb penalty

[Tad334]

Hello, I received PCN by parking on the dropped kerb at the front of my property- garage, Ive parked there for 5 years. Croydon council argues that I block access. To me its as a dropped kerb people make to park at their property. Croydon council refused twice my representation. Can anyone suggest?
Thanks

[Pica-Pica]

Photos might help.

[Mandat]

It's not really clear from you post where / how you have parked.

Also, what was the PCN actually for?

[Tad334]

thank u for your replay, this is a link to a photo taken by parking officer, my car parked on the street at the from of my garage, next to my garage is an alleyway access, then next garage converted to a room, dropped kerb stretches for about 10 meters
https://ibb.co/hJZn0b

this is a letter from Council
Thank you for writing to us.
You were issued a PC for parking against a stretch of lowered sloping kerb. Kerbs are built like this to allow easy access across them. They exist at different locations for different reasons, e.g. to assist pedestrians crossing the road, to also cars access to garages/ flats etc.
Dropped footway' means any part of the footway or verge where it has been
lowered to meet the level of the carriageway of a road for the purpose of assisting pedestrians crossing the road, also blocking dropped kerbs provides unnecessary danger to people with disabilities and parents with prams who use them to help cross the road.
There is no requirement for signage to be erected or lines in these circumstances.
AS previously stated the Council responded to a request from a resident, in the circumstances I regret to inform you that the Council will not be cancelling the Penalty Charge Notice.
You can view photographic evidence of your case online at www.viewmypcn.eo.uk/croydon

[S0updr4g0n]

Looks like a shared kerb - did you pay for it?

If you paid for it to be lowered in front of your garage I think you are be able to give yourself (or friends/family etc) permission to block access to your property. If you didn't pay for it I think you will probably be stuck with the PCN, especially if it's a shared driveway area.

IMHO

There's an old thread on PePiPoo topic number 44935 discussing it.

[Red Devil]

S0updr4g0n said:

Looks like a shared kerb - did you pay for it?

The relevant legislation makes no mention of who paid for it: therefore irrelevant.

S0updr4g0n said:

If you paid for it to be lowered in front of your garage I think you are be able to give yourself (or friends/family etc) permission to block access to your property. If you didn't pay for it I think you will probably be stuck with the PCN, especially if it's a shared driveway area.

IMHO

There's an old thread on PePiPoo topic number 44935 discussing it.

There is an exemption conferred by the Traffic Management Act 2004 Section 86(3).
Irrespective of how it was paid for, the occupier can give permission provided it is not a shared driveway.
Note that Schedule 12 of the above act repealed Section 14 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003
Under the latter there used to be a blanket prohibtion on parking at a dropped kerb.

@ OP. If it's not a shared driveway you need to ask LB Croydon under what legislation or Order they contend a contravention has been commiited.
Have a look at this. Note though that is a different LB.
However it would be a complete crock for the rules to be different depending on which Borough you are in.
It just becomes a lottery which is manifestly unfair.

Tad334 said:

thank u for your replay, this is a link to a photo taken by parking officer, my car parked on the street at the from of my garage, next to my garage is an alleyway access, then next garage converted to a room, dropped kerb stretches for about 10 meters
https://ibb.co/hJZn0b

I can't get that link to work. Really need a pic in order to see whether you have a case for cancellation.
You might have grounds to take it to London Tribunals if the LA won't back down (and knowing Croydon I bet they won't).
However, based purely on your description 10 metre dropped kerb doesn't sound like it is for a single property.
Hence a pic is crucial.

Tad334 said:

Croydon council refused twice my representation. Can anyone suggest?

To be clear, what was the second rejection? Was it to a formal challenge after you had received a NTO?
(I assume the first was to an informal rep within the discount period).

It is essential to get your ducks in a row and follow all the procedural steps correctly when fighting a Council PCN
If you are at the formal rejection stage you either pay up or appeal to an adjudicator.

Clarification required.

[Chester draws]

Red Devil said:

I can't get that link to work. Really need a pic in order to see whether you have a case for cancellation.

Is my understanding that you can park across your own drop kerb. Is suggested to contact the council and give them your name and reg to prevent your car being ticketed. (Or assist if it is ticketed).

Have you been ticketed for parking across "your" part of the drop kerb, or the section deemed to allow access through those iron gates?

[Tad334]

I Didn’t pay for kerb to be dropped, I moved to my house when it was like that. Dropped kerb is sort of splits as an access to my garage, alleyway and one more garage. In my last representation I provided HM Land Registry general map where it shows my property, council knows that I parked at the front of my garage.
Regarding “Have you been ticketed for parking across "your" part of the drop kerb, or the section deemed to allow access through those iron gates?” they said:
You were issued a PC for parking against a stretch of lowered sloping kerb. Kerbs are built like this to allow easy access across them. They exist at different locations for different reasons, e.g. to assist pedestrians crossing the road, to also cars access to garages/ flats etc.
Even their statement says “cars access to garages”, if it belongs to me I can’t block it, they don’t mentioned Iron gates, my next door neighbour said that my previous house owner and other neighbours paid to install the Iron Gate to prevent others to go the alley

[Chester draws]

It's hard to gauge it accurately from that image, but it does look as though you are across the drop kerb leading to the gates / alley. And there is a silver van in there?

If someone did the same as you in front of the garage on the right, how much room would be left for that van to get out?

I'd imagine that was the thought process of the warden

[Tad334]

Chester draws said:

It's hard to gauge it accurately from that image, but it does look as though you are across the drop kerb leading to the gates / alley. And there is a silver van in there?

If someone did the same as you in front of the garage on the right, how much room would be left for that van to get out?

I'd imagine that was the thought process of the warden

There was enough room for any car to go in or out, initially my neighbour called the council telling I’m blocking the road

[superlightr]

I would suggest that the dropped curb is not "his". Its a dropped curbed with regulations about blocking them which the council are enforcing. I would imagin its a strict liability - you either are or are not parked across a dropped curb.

I don't think it matters that its not causing a problem to you as your garage is behind the dropped curb. How are the council to know that for all dropped curbs? or if you say to a visitor to park there? Just not practical.

[R8Steve]

Tad334 said:

initially my neighbour called the council telling I’m blocking the road

That changes the story somewhat...

[TimmyMallett]

Reverse back a bit, stop impeding his access. But you know that and could have prevented this before it escalated.

You know, be nice.

[Tad334]

The neighbour: she is a tenant from abroad, she is not using the alleyway in any way, I’m being nice to her, but some people just want to fight no matter what, she is using council to fight everyone around her. Croydon council gave me PCN by not blocking access to the alleyway by parking on the dropped kerb. If I pay now that mean I could never park again at the front of my property

[Pica-Pica]

superlightr said:

I would suggest that the dropped curb is not "his". Its a dropped curbed with regulations about blocking them which the council are enforcing. I would imagin its a strict liability - you either are or are not parked across a dropped curb.

I don't think it matters that its not causing a problem to you as your garage is behind the dropped curb. How are the council to know that for all dropped curbs? or if you say to a visitor to park there? Just not practical.

Kerb, not curb.

[Torquey]

Make use of the dropped kerb and park in the garage?

[Efbe]

quite clearly you are blocking access to this alleyway.

move your car.

[Toltec]

Efbe said:

quite clearly you are blocking access to this alleyway.

move your car.

I agree he might be, it does look tight, however the photo has been taken at an angle which makes that difficult to determine precisely.

[superlightr]

Pica-Pica said:

superlightr said:

I would suggest that the dropped curb is not "his". Its a dropped curbed with regulations about blocking them which the council are enforcing. I would imagin its a strict liability - you either are or are not parked across a dropped curb.

I don't think it matters that its not causing a problem to you as your garage is behind the dropped curb. How are the council to know that for all dropped curbs? or if you say to a visitor to park there? Just not practical.

Kerb, not curb.

thank you !!

Kerb
Kerb
Kerb (I will practice at home)

[Efbe]

Toltec said:

Efbe said:

quite clearly you are blocking access to this alleyway.

move your car.

I agree he might be, it does look tight, however the photo has been taken at an angle which makes that difficult to determine precisely.

Even with that angle, it's going to be hard getting a van in and out of that alleyway given the road itself isn't all that wide.
Then if she needs to turn the van right (left as we see it) there is no way she will be able to get around the car. Or get back in if she is coming from either direction.

I would be incredibly unhappy if someone parked like that in front of my house. It's quite simply being a tt.
OP should count himself lucky this wasn't a normal white van driver, I can't imagine many would be as patient and restrained as this.