Discussion
Impossible to answer
What quality of life would you expect o benefit from - would this need to be maintained? - House/holidays/school fees
Beyond that to what extent is your job secure? - it's a 25 year financial commitment
How strong is your relationship with your significant other - can it be maintained with the added stress of kids
It's far too difficult to quantify as what works today won't necessarily work tomorrow.
For myself currently - 0, maybe 1/2 if I accepted a significant reduction in discretionary spending, could overcome medical complications to have them in the first place, accepted private education was a push, got another better paying job etc. etc.
What quality of life would you expect o benefit from - would this need to be maintained? - House/holidays/school fees
Beyond that to what extent is your job secure? - it's a 25 year financial commitment
How strong is your relationship with your significant other - can it be maintained with the added stress of kids
It's far too difficult to quantify as what works today won't necessarily work tomorrow.
For myself currently - 0, maybe 1/2 if I accepted a significant reduction in discretionary spending, could overcome medical complications to have them in the first place, accepted private education was a push, got another better paying job etc. etc.
Childcare free and not free is a massive issue for me.
Realistically , i couldn't afford my child to be in FT nursery. 2days a week is knocking on 400pm as it is.
If i had another one , it just wouldn't be feasible and the mrs would be forced to knock work on the head.
The family over the road got around this by having the grandmothers literally be there 10hrs a day (arrive at 8am) even on a saturday. If you have that kind of network i suppose its easy and a lot cheaper (they do pay the grandmothers) if you have that support network.
Everybody is different , whether its financial or career obstacles. If i won the lottery tonight than sure , id be knocking them out pronto.
Realistically , i couldn't afford my child to be in FT nursery. 2days a week is knocking on 400pm as it is.
If i had another one , it just wouldn't be feasible and the mrs would be forced to knock work on the head.
The family over the road got around this by having the grandmothers literally be there 10hrs a day (arrive at 8am) even on a saturday. If you have that kind of network i suppose its easy and a lot cheaper (they do pay the grandmothers) if you have that support network.
Everybody is different , whether its financial or career obstacles. If i won the lottery tonight than sure , id be knocking them out pronto.
2 kids in nursery full time because we both need to work.
£55/child/day. £550/week. Basically knocking on £2k/month with a bit of variation depending on discounts for free (gov sponsored) hours (although the sponsored rates do not cover the full nursery rate, so we pay the difference).
It means one of us is working for a very small take-home remainder (vs one stay-at-home parent), but we have to keep two careers current and up to date, and we need the reassurance of 2 jobs in case one job suddenly vanishes, leaving us completely screwed (in the current climate, quite a concern).
Most folks we know only manage the affordability sums with some help from grandparents for childcare.
Obviously, there will be powerfully built PHers with two six figure incomes, full JISAs and trust funds, wondering what all the fuss is about because the nanny can easily cope with another 2 or 3 little Tarquins, but for normal people I have no idea how kids are supposed to be affordable.
You can't have kids based on the numbers. You have kids because they enrich your life beyond anything else, and you make the sums work however you can.
£55/child/day. £550/week. Basically knocking on £2k/month with a bit of variation depending on discounts for free (gov sponsored) hours (although the sponsored rates do not cover the full nursery rate, so we pay the difference).
It means one of us is working for a very small take-home remainder (vs one stay-at-home parent), but we have to keep two careers current and up to date, and we need the reassurance of 2 jobs in case one job suddenly vanishes, leaving us completely screwed (in the current climate, quite a concern).
Most folks we know only manage the affordability sums with some help from grandparents for childcare.
Obviously, there will be powerfully built PHers with two six figure incomes, full JISAs and trust funds, wondering what all the fuss is about because the nanny can easily cope with another 2 or 3 little Tarquins, but for normal people I have no idea how kids are supposed to be affordable.
You can't have kids based on the numbers. You have kids because they enrich your life beyond anything else, and you make the sums work however you can.
TartanPaint said:
Obviously, there will be powerfully built PHers with two six figure incomes, full JISAs and trust funds, wondering what all the fuss is about because the nanny can easily cope with another 2 or 3 little Tarquins, but for normal people I have no idea how kids are supposed to be affordable.
You can't have kids based on the numbers. You have kids because they enrich your life beyond anything else, and you make the sums work however you can.
Even with that kind of income, having three kids in London is a big stretch.You can't have kids based on the numbers. You have kids because they enrich your life beyond anything else, and you make the sums work however you can.
Your last point is the key; the money my kids cost me would pay for lot of nice things, but they wouldn't enrich my life the way my children do.
bigboystoys said:
Just wanting to know peoples thoughts how many children can you afford to have ?
I've got two, wife not working at the moment though both of them are now in school so that could change soon. Currently spend everything I earn and I'm not exactly on a low salary! I have no idea how people could manage on the £28k that's supposedly the UK average though I guess if there's two of you earning it then maybe.
I've got two kids. Can't say that financials were a part of the decision though.
After we'd had two, there was of course talk of a third... but I always thought that from a parenting perspective this moved you from a man-marking system to zone play.
We were really busy in those early years and just got on with it... then one day realised you could leave the house with nothing more than your phone, wallet, keys and two kids holding your hands who'd put their own shoes and coats on and would then just hop unaided onto their booster seats... Plus the kid's mum was getting more into part time work to further her career now that they were both at school..
Dawning realisation that life had moved on a stage - and we donated all of the baby travel systems / cots / toys etc to family members at once, content that two was just fine.
I've no idea what they 'cost'. I wouldn't change it for the world. obviously.
After we'd had two, there was of course talk of a third... but I always thought that from a parenting perspective this moved you from a man-marking system to zone play.
We were really busy in those early years and just got on with it... then one day realised you could leave the house with nothing more than your phone, wallet, keys and two kids holding your hands who'd put their own shoes and coats on and would then just hop unaided onto their booster seats... Plus the kid's mum was getting more into part time work to further her career now that they were both at school..
Dawning realisation that life had moved on a stage - and we donated all of the baby travel systems / cots / toys etc to family members at once, content that two was just fine.
I've no idea what they 'cost'. I wouldn't change it for the world. obviously.
bigboystoys said:
Just wanting to know peoples thoughts how many children can you afford to have ?
You can have as many as you want though really, it all depends on what you're prepared to sacrifice and how your structure your home life.At the moment both my Wife and I work we have 2 kids, one is pre-school age, the other in high school - there's loads of reasons behind that, but the headline is my Wife wanted to carry on in her career, objectively she could have stayed at home until youngest started school - it wouldn't have made a massive difference truth be told, but she didn't want to so that was it, my sacrifice was letting my career take a back seat, less income, a bit less stress, but more flexibility and time to be at home to be Dad, it works for us - but we're both looking forward to the youngest starting school full time, the Childcare bill is massive.
One of my friends has LOADS of kids, I'm not sure I could count them, but his Wife has only ever had the odd job here and there, so it didn't make sense for her to work - once you've made the decision to have one of you stay at home, throwing another kid into the mix doesn't make much difference, not financially anyway.
It all depends on what you want out of life really - some people are successful / fortunate enough to earn enough money to have kids and lots of toys to play with - but most people have to make a choice, Children or things, I'd choose Children, deep down I know it's only a chemical reaction in my brain that makes me love them, they're a huge amount of work, but then it's only a different version of that same chemical reaction that makes me want a big litre sportsbike. You're born, you die, if you're lucky you get to choose what you do in between, I try not to get hung up on whether I'm doing the 'right thing' and try to do what makes me happy.
C0ffin D0dger said:
I've got two, wife not working at the moment though both of them are now in school so that could change soon.
Currently spend everything I earn and I'm not exactly on a low salary! I have no idea how people could manage on the £28k that's supposedly the UK average though I guess if there's two of you earning it then maybe.
I earn just under £30k and have two kids, and I wouldn't say we were living a pauper's existence. The kids are both at school now, so the missus is back working part time. She earns about £8k pa now, but earned nothing for the 5 years prior.Currently spend everything I earn and I'm not exactly on a low salary! I have no idea how people could manage on the £28k that's supposedly the UK average though I guess if there's two of you earning it then maybe.
We've got two cars. Decent house. Kids get to go to various clubs and swimming lessons etc, but no ponies or private schools
Holidays are a couple of weeks camping in Cornwall, so not too bad.
You don't need masses of money to raise kids if you prioritise what they need, rather than what you want
People tend to focus on the first years, I have three aged 21, 20 and 18, the younger two are at Uni which is £1000 month in accommodation plus materials, bailing them out, trips (youngest is going to Japan at Easter which is £1500) . the eldest is on a decent apprenticeship with Thomas Cook, he gets paid but we havent taken any keep as yet as he is just getting on top of things, so he is still eating and costing us, but not as much, plus my wife has decreed if he does pay keep I have to save it towards a house deposit for him, which is very generous of her !
I am hoping, after 22 years to get some respite financially when the eldest finishes as University.
Not sure how people manage to do this stuff with a lower salary and a mortgage, still end up skint and I get paid fairly well and am not burdened with any debt.
I am hoping, after 22 years to get some respite financially when the eldest finishes as University.
Not sure how people manage to do this stuff with a lower salary and a mortgage, still end up skint and I get paid fairly well and am not burdened with any debt.
my wife is not currently talking to me because I am skeptical about another child.
We have 2, 4 and 1. The eldest has some social issues and could possibly be on the autistic spectrum, although he is such a delight and makes my heart beat he is hard work. The younger one brings joy beyond words and I could not imagine the World without them.
Now my wants a baby girl to "complete" our little family. But i'm as the sole income, i am barely making ends meet as it is, i could easily add another but it would reduce the standard of living for all of us.
Truth is if i could, i would. but these decisions need to be made logically not emotionally.
We have 2, 4 and 1. The eldest has some social issues and could possibly be on the autistic spectrum, although he is such a delight and makes my heart beat he is hard work. The younger one brings joy beyond words and I could not imagine the World without them.
Now my wants a baby girl to "complete" our little family. But i'm as the sole income, i am barely making ends meet as it is, i could easily add another but it would reduce the standard of living for all of us.
Truth is if i could, i would. but these decisions need to be made logically not emotionally.
WolfAir said:
my wife is not currently talking to me because I am skeptical about another child.
We have 2, 4 and 1. The eldest has some social issues and could possibly be on the autistic spectrum, although he is such a delight and makes my heart beat he is hard work. The younger one brings joy beyond words and I could not imagine the World without them.
Now my wants a baby girl to "complete" our little family. But i'm as the sole income, i am barely making ends meet as it is, i could easily add another but it would reduce the standard of living for all of us.
Truth is if i could, i would. but these decisions need to be made logically not emotionally.
Been there, I just gave in as she said I could choose the new car We have 2, 4 and 1. The eldest has some social issues and could possibly be on the autistic spectrum, although he is such a delight and makes my heart beat he is hard work. The younger one brings joy beyond words and I could not imagine the World without them.
Now my wants a baby girl to "complete" our little family. But i'm as the sole income, i am barely making ends meet as it is, i could easily add another but it would reduce the standard of living for all of us.
Truth is if i could, i would. but these decisions need to be made logically not emotionally.
She said another one wouldn't cost much more, a fact I have reminded her of many time, not least when choosing which private school he was to go to as things weren't going well for him at the local primary.
I dont regret anything, i like being the dad of three, but it is hard work and a financial burden, I got tot he point where it spurred me on and I passed loads of exams and went contracting for three times what I had been earning.
designforlife said:
you get free money off the government for each additional child or something don't you?.
Not everyone does no. In our case, we have 2 - could we afford more - yes, will the government give us any money, no,
For me the real "affordability" revolves around ease of life rather than cash.
2 Adults + 2 Kids is how the world is shaped -> Holidays, restaurants, cars etc are built for 4 person families.
As soon as you need to get a table or hotel room for 5 everywhere you go the world is much less pleasant......
mikef said:
One kiddie to age 18, at least £250K with private education and a couple of ponies along the way. That could have been a nice car every few years. Would I miss out on it? Not for the world.
It's weird when discussing cost. I don't have kids and as a result can probably afford other things. I have had people make snide remakes about how 'loaded' I must be because I drive an Aston (a 7 year old V8V). I have even been advised that it's not even a good idea to bring it to work, as people (especially senior management) will see their arses because 'how can he possibly afford such a car - he must be getting payed too much" and 'it's showing off and rubbing people's noses in it'.
People can come in and constantly brag about their 2.4 kids though - each one likely costing many times more than my car ever will - yet i'm the one who is 'loaded' and 'showing off'
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 13th October 13:35
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