Getting help for elderly neighbours, where to start?
Discussion
An elderly couple (both 91) live a couple of doors away. In the 6 years that I've lived here their mobility has declined to the point that the old boy doesn't have the strength to help his wife anymore. She had a hip replacement 5 years ago, and hasn't been able to walk without a frame since. He now has to use sticks or a frame too.
Since they found out that I can do DIY stuff, they have called on me every few months to sort out the TV, change light bulbs, smoke detectors, etc.
That kind of thing, I'm happy to help them.
Yesterday the old lady fell while using her frame. He called me to help, as she couldn't get up. She was in a doorway, flat on her face. Very distressed. I wasn't sure if she'd broken anything. Called 999, was told not to move her.
Ambulance took 2 hours to arrive. Paramedic checked her out, and we managed to get her up. Turns out she had also fallen last Sunday, I was at work, ambulance was called.
I was just getting ready for bed tonight, he phoned. She was stuck on her commode, couldn't get up onto her frame. I managed to help.
I'm not good with this kind of thing, or old people in general.
They need help, but don't want to spend money. They want to leave it to their son (house, etc.). I really don't want to end up as their carer. I'm already looking out for my mum (80) since dad died at easter. She lives in her own house, so it's just DIY and help with bills and stuff. I'm also trying to sort out my aunt's financial affairs (86, in a care home). I'm working 7 days a week, no real time for "me". I can't take on the burden of someone else's parents, but I can't ignore them when they ask for help.
They really need someone to visit them several times a day for personal care and cooking.
Who can I speak to to get them "in the system"?
The son lives 200 miles away, visits twice a year....
Since they found out that I can do DIY stuff, they have called on me every few months to sort out the TV, change light bulbs, smoke detectors, etc.
That kind of thing, I'm happy to help them.
Yesterday the old lady fell while using her frame. He called me to help, as she couldn't get up. She was in a doorway, flat on her face. Very distressed. I wasn't sure if she'd broken anything. Called 999, was told not to move her.
Ambulance took 2 hours to arrive. Paramedic checked her out, and we managed to get her up. Turns out she had also fallen last Sunday, I was at work, ambulance was called.
I was just getting ready for bed tonight, he phoned. She was stuck on her commode, couldn't get up onto her frame. I managed to help.
I'm not good with this kind of thing, or old people in general.
They need help, but don't want to spend money. They want to leave it to their son (house, etc.). I really don't want to end up as their carer. I'm already looking out for my mum (80) since dad died at easter. She lives in her own house, so it's just DIY and help with bills and stuff. I'm also trying to sort out my aunt's financial affairs (86, in a care home). I'm working 7 days a week, no real time for "me". I can't take on the burden of someone else's parents, but I can't ignore them when they ask for help.
They really need someone to visit them several times a day for personal care and cooking.
Who can I speak to to get them "in the system"?
The son lives 200 miles away, visits twice a year....
The paramedic who came yesterday was very good, took all the details, sent an email for a GP home visit and occupational therapy assessment. Said it may take a while because of the case load. GP hasn't made contact today, which is a bit of a letdown.
I asked the paramedic if it was normal for them to act as front line social workers. Apparently it is. My respect for them and what they do went up significantly yesterday.
The son is supposed to be visting next weekend. His wife phoned while we were waiting for the ambulance, so he is aware of the situation.
I asked the paramedic if it was normal for them to act as front line social workers. Apparently it is. My respect for them and what they do went up significantly yesterday.
The son is supposed to be visting next weekend. His wife phoned while we were waiting for the ambulance, so he is aware of the situation.
clockworks said:
I asked the paramedic if it was normal for them to act as front line social workers. Apparently it is. My respect for them and what they do went up significantly yesterday.
If you get the chance, watch a TV show on the BBC called "Ambulance". One of the things it shows is how often they deal with calls that really should be dealt with by other agencies. Very, very interesting programme & like you said - my respect for the paramedics is a lot higher having seen some of the situations they have to deal with.Firstly Clockworks, you are being a great neighbour! Well done you.
I am in a similar position, but with my mother.
As has been suggested, they really need an OT assessment. In my area, this was advised as a 7 week wait. I went privately, to get things moving, but will be accepting the Local authority assessment too, as it's all information.
I have spent a little time making my mums home as safe as possible. Put up a few grab handles, non slip shower mats, removed a couple of rugs, handrail on the stairs etc etc.
I also sourced a panic alarm, which is worn as a pendant. So, if the wearer falls and cannot get up, at least they can call for help.
Lighting in the home is another aspect to consider. Should brighter lamps be in place?
The son really needs to step up here, but well done for caring. I would thoroughly appreciate it if these were my parents.
I am in a similar position, but with my mother.
As has been suggested, they really need an OT assessment. In my area, this was advised as a 7 week wait. I went privately, to get things moving, but will be accepting the Local authority assessment too, as it's all information.
I have spent a little time making my mums home as safe as possible. Put up a few grab handles, non slip shower mats, removed a couple of rugs, handrail on the stairs etc etc.
I also sourced a panic alarm, which is worn as a pendant. So, if the wearer falls and cannot get up, at least they can call for help.
Lighting in the home is another aspect to consider. Should brighter lamps be in place?
The son really needs to step up here, but well done for caring. I would thoroughly appreciate it if these were my parents.
Edited by Nobby Diesel on Saturday 14th October 01:17
The danger her is that the son will rely on you to provide emergency cover.
I am in a similar situation with my mum and aunt to others here. I wouldn't expect a neighbour to be providing primary care or even secondary care for them. Neighbours can be be very helpful if family live a long way away from each other, but it shouldn't be an excuse to transfer responsibility.
Social services/OT need to be involved so they can open a case and you can take a step back.
I am in a similar situation with my mum and aunt to others here. I wouldn't expect a neighbour to be providing primary care or even secondary care for them. Neighbours can be be very helpful if family live a long way away from each other, but it shouldn't be an excuse to transfer responsibility.
Social services/OT need to be involved so they can open a case and you can take a step back.
Social Services would be the first port of call. Give them a ring and explain the situation.
If you have any specific questions feel free to ask, my mum helps set up care packages for people (normally people who are disabled, but will be similar) and a friend is an adult social worker. Feel free to email if its easier.
If you have any specific questions feel free to ask, my mum helps set up care packages for people (normally people who are disabled, but will be similar) and a friend is an adult social worker. Feel free to email if its easier.
You are being an extremely good, kind and decent neighbour. As I have found out through the experience I am going through with my own elderly mother and as a patron of a charity that runs wonderful private care homes providing free access to those that cannot afford that kind of care (and as a consequence are all full with long waiting lists), the state is struggling massively to provide a quality and dignified care system for our old people. It's only going to get worse unfortunately.
As others have said, this is on their son and not you. I don't care if he lives in Timbuktu, he should be taking the lead on this and coming up with a solution even if that solution isn't perfect. What that solution looks like is up to the 3 of them, but it needs to be made urgently and if I were you I'd contact him and tell him to get down to the house asap. This sort of situation is one that we all have to deal with at some point and we can't bury our heads in the sand. Throwing money at is the best outcome but sadly too many people see their parent's house as their own little nest egg and don't want it sold and spent on private health care for mum and dad. Others of course have no money at all and have to rely entirely on the state. That means lots of phone calls and meetings to try and ensure they get the best of what's available. Not easy given how underfunded and overworked the system is, but it has to be done.
The lesson obviously is that looking after our parents when they get old, in the kind of way we'd want them to be looked after, is getting increasingly difficult to find as provided entirely by the state so start saving now or at the very least budget on spending much of their savings and home equity on looking after them.
As others have said, this is on their son and not you. I don't care if he lives in Timbuktu, he should be taking the lead on this and coming up with a solution even if that solution isn't perfect. What that solution looks like is up to the 3 of them, but it needs to be made urgently and if I were you I'd contact him and tell him to get down to the house asap. This sort of situation is one that we all have to deal with at some point and we can't bury our heads in the sand. Throwing money at is the best outcome but sadly too many people see their parent's house as their own little nest egg and don't want it sold and spent on private health care for mum and dad. Others of course have no money at all and have to rely entirely on the state. That means lots of phone calls and meetings to try and ensure they get the best of what's available. Not easy given how underfunded and overworked the system is, but it has to be done.
The lesson obviously is that looking after our parents when they get old, in the kind of way we'd want them to be looked after, is getting increasingly difficult to find as provided entirely by the state so start saving now or at the very least budget on spending much of their savings and home equity on looking after them.
Thanks for the replies and support.
Adult Social Services here only operate during office hours, except in emergencies. I will call them on Monday.
It's quite possible that they are understating the situation to their son. I'll try and see him when he visits next week.
The way they are living, it's like they have no money to spare. They own the house, and the outside is well maintained (by a local handyman), but the inside is very shabby. Would they have to pay for a carer and Lifeline if they are just getting the basic state pension and have no savings?
My aunt had to pay, but she was getting a decent widow's pension and had savings, so could afford it.
Ideally, they should be selling the house and moving into a sheltered /assisted apartment, or a family member should move in with them.
Those are the 2 options we are considering as a family whem mum reaches that point.
Adult Social Services here only operate during office hours, except in emergencies. I will call them on Monday.
It's quite possible that they are understating the situation to their son. I'll try and see him when he visits next week.
The way they are living, it's like they have no money to spare. They own the house, and the outside is well maintained (by a local handyman), but the inside is very shabby. Would they have to pay for a carer and Lifeline if they are just getting the basic state pension and have no savings?
My aunt had to pay, but she was getting a decent widow's pension and had savings, so could afford it.
Ideally, they should be selling the house and moving into a sheltered /assisted apartment, or a family member should move in with them.
Those are the 2 options we are considering as a family whem mum reaches that point.
Wow - you are an amazing neighbour..... incredibly kind.
But.....
This has got out of control - helping 90 year old neighbours off their commode is really not what your life should include. It's too much.
This is down to the son to sort out - it really is. He needs to pay for care rather than having you do it - you're simply saving him money. Is he aware of how much you're doing? You are not responsible for this couple, you've already gone above and beyond the call of duty.
We are in a similar situation in that my MiL is in her 90's, we live 45 minutes away. She calls on her neighbours for everything 'the oven is making a funny noise' being fairly typical. She has dementia, refuses to go into a home and we have implored her not to keep phoning her neighbours - phone us instead. So I do appreciate the difficulties here.
But.....
This has got out of control - helping 90 year old neighbours off their commode is really not what your life should include. It's too much.
This is down to the son to sort out - it really is. He needs to pay for care rather than having you do it - you're simply saving him money. Is he aware of how much you're doing? You are not responsible for this couple, you've already gone above and beyond the call of duty.
We are in a similar situation in that my MiL is in her 90's, we live 45 minutes away. She calls on her neighbours for everything 'the oven is making a funny noise' being fairly typical. She has dementia, refuses to go into a home and we have implored her not to keep phoning her neighbours - phone us instead. So I do appreciate the difficulties here.
clockworks said:
They need help, but don't want to spend money. They want to leave it to their son (house, etc.). I really don't want to end up as their carer. I'm already looking out for my mum (80) since dad died at easter.
I am sure that there must be a clue here somewhere, if only I could work out what it is.No. no, please.
Don't go away, just give me a moment to think about it.
I didn't mind helping when it was simple stuff like changing a light bulb or picking up and installing a new TV. They always offered to pay for my time, and sometimes I accepted the odd fiver. He always popped round or phoned during daylight hours, and had always tried to sort it out himself first. That's just "good neighbour" stuff.
The personal care and recovering from falls I'm not at all comfortable with. Not sure I could do it for my own mum. Fortunately both of my younger sisters have worked in care homes, and they have said that they will be OK with that kind of thing when the time comes. Probably get someone in to do toileting and bathing though.
I have no idea how fragile old people might be, so I could do more harm than good. Geriatric care is a bit different to basic first aid and manual handling.
It's been hard trying to convince mum to spend her money on herself, rather than saving it for when she's gone. I'm still not sure she understands that we'd rather see her happy and comfortable while she's alive than cop for a few quid later on. I've no idea if the neighbours have had that conversation with their son.
The personal care and recovering from falls I'm not at all comfortable with. Not sure I could do it for my own mum. Fortunately both of my younger sisters have worked in care homes, and they have said that they will be OK with that kind of thing when the time comes. Probably get someone in to do toileting and bathing though.
I have no idea how fragile old people might be, so I could do more harm than good. Geriatric care is a bit different to basic first aid and manual handling.
It's been hard trying to convince mum to spend her money on herself, rather than saving it for when she's gone. I'm still not sure she understands that we'd rather see her happy and comfortable while she's alive than cop for a few quid later on. I've no idea if the neighbours have had that conversation with their son.
clockworks said:
The personal care and recovering from falls I'm not at all comfortable with.
May I respectfully suggest :-Neighbours.
That you do not try to pick your neighbour up. Sometimes the floor is, temporarily, the best place for them. You could do more harm than good. You could be leaving yourself open to legal action. Call the ambulance/son. Leave it to the professionals. Phone the son. Phone him again. Keep on phoning him. It's his problem, not yours.
How do you change the light bulbs? Do you stand on something? Supposing you fell? Watch any episode of "24 hours In A & E".
Mother.
Be very careful. you could do more harm than good. Consider, when the time comes, getting her into a care home.
robinessex said:
Get social services involved. Pass on sons details to them. Then they'll put pressure on him to take on the situation.
PS. All the value in my mothers house has was used to provide her care in the later years of her life. Just thought I'd mention it
How can they "put pressure " as you call it, on the son 200 miles away?PS. All the value in my mothers house has was used to provide her care in the later years of her life. Just thought I'd mention it
SS locally should be able to help the elderly couple one way or another
SantaBarbara said:
robinessex said:
Get social services involved. Pass on sons details to them. Then they'll put pressure on him to take on the situation.
PS. All the value in my mothers house has was used to provide her care in the later years of her life. Just thought I'd mention it
How can they "put pressure " as you call it, on the son 200 miles away?PS. All the value in my mothers house has was used to provide her care in the later years of her life. Just thought I'd mention it
SS locally should be able to help the elderly couple one way or another
I have 81year old mother who had a fall and was taken into hospital, when she was discharged a care plan was put in place by social services because they have a duty of care . She had a link line and carers twice a day as well as mobility aids and is well cared for.
As others have said get onto social services and get the son/family more involved it's not your responsibility, but fair play to you for caring for your elderly neighbours.
As others have said get onto social services and get the son/family more involved it's not your responsibility, but fair play to you for caring for your elderly neighbours.
The Mad Monk said:
May I respectfully suggest :-
Neighbours.
That you do not try to pick your neighbour up. Sometimes the floor is, temporarily, the best place for them. You could do more harm than good. You could be leaving yourself open to legal action.
Legal action, for being a good Samaritan and doing what you think is right for your neighbour? Really? I hope the UK hasn't come to that yet.Neighbours.
That you do not try to pick your neighbour up. Sometimes the floor is, temporarily, the best place for them. You could do more harm than good. You could be leaving yourself open to legal action.
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff