TVR Press cars
Discussion
After watching the Fifth Gear program last night, can anybody explain why TVR don't go over their press release cars with a fine tooth comb to ensure that no bits of trim or knobs etc drop off during the tests.
Given the new 3 year warranty (not mentioned on the Tuscan 2 / Sagaris test) the press would love to be able to reel out the old stereotype that TVR's are poorly built, smell of glue, etc etc.
The launch of these two new cars, under the new management team was a perfect opertunity to kill this off with bomb-proof press cars, but alas, opertunity missed.
Given the new 3 year warranty (not mentioned on the Tuscan 2 / Sagaris test) the press would love to be able to reel out the old stereotype that TVR's are poorly built, smell of glue, etc etc.
The launch of these two new cars, under the new management team was a perfect opertunity to kill this off with bomb-proof press cars, but alas, opertunity missed.
Would it not be more of the case that after all the effort the press put into driving these cars that after they have had 20 different drivers with them all wanting to put the cars sideways bits are bound to come of.
If you remember the Yellow T350T Press car from last year, it spent 5 months over here on lone to a TVR Customer while his T400C was being sorted at the factory. Durings its time here nothing fell of and its had a hard life.
Colin L
If you remember the Yellow T350T Press car from last year, it spent 5 months over here on lone to a TVR Customer while his T400C was being sorted at the factory. Durings its time here nothing fell of and its had a hard life.
Colin L
I agree in part colin, the press will spank the cars to ascertain their limits, and all cars break if they are abused.
But why the little niggles, why did VBH have an opertunity to make a point that the wiper control knob fell off the Tuscan, and why the loose carpet trim under the Sagaris dash... Such minor points, but easy to avoid if the factory controlled the release of the press cars to allow some shake-down time between tests.
When was the last time you read an artical on a Noble which included negative comments on build quality?
But why the little niggles, why did VBH have an opertunity to make a point that the wiper control knob fell off the Tuscan, and why the loose carpet trim under the Sagaris dash... Such minor points, but easy to avoid if the factory controlled the release of the press cars to allow some shake-down time between tests.
When was the last time you read an artical on a Noble which included negative comments on build quality?
I drove the blue factory press/demonstrator Sagaris on Sunday. It has been thrashed for over 5,000 miles, the rear tyre shoulders were scuffed and rounded. Nothing fell off. It seemed well made, there were no rattles and it behaved perfectly.
FWIW TVR have a surefire winner here, I don't think they will be able to make enough to keep up with demand. It is faster than my Cerb, smaller, more agile and the handling is in a different class. There is no competition at the price and you could pay double for a slower Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini or Aston.
>> Edited by bruciebabe on Tuesday 12th April 11:53
FWIW TVR have a surefire winner here, I don't think they will be able to make enough to keep up with demand. It is faster than my Cerb, smaller, more agile and the handling is in a different class. There is no competition at the price and you could pay double for a slower Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini or Aston.
>> Edited by bruciebabe on Tuesday 12th April 11:53
mrmaggit said:
And what about the TWO Porsche Boxsters that had to be taken away on low-loaders after their clutches let go?
Yep, it's all politics and greed (whose got the largest 'press entertainment' budget), Listen to the BBC news today, the Tories have some great ideas, but all I hear is Labour spin still, despite the BBC sayings it's impartial, yeah, right, same, I suspect when the Tam won the vote on that Driven, and the looks on the presenter's faces was very telling indeed, if the Tamora had 'let go', I have no doubt whatsoever they would have lapped it up on screen!
mrmaggit said:
And what about the TWO Porsche Boxsters that had to be taken away on low-loaders after their clutches let go?
There is a difference, unfortunately.
Some things (lie wiper switches coming off in your hand) are avoidable with adequate quality control.
Some things (like clutches blowing because some journo has dumped them at 6,000rpm in pursuit of a 0-60 time) are less predicatble and easier to see as the result of unreasonable abuse.
I agree with the surveyor.
If it was my company (oh how I wish it was!) I'd make sure everything was up to scratch before giving it back to the press and I'd double check everything before it went on a tv programme!
I agree it was a big opportunity to put the reliability thing to bed and TVR slipped up.
Come on Phil/BossCerbera! (TVR's ph browsing marketing/pr guy) Where were you?
If it was my company (oh how I wish it was!) I'd make sure everything was up to scratch before giving it back to the press and I'd double check everything before it went on a tv programme!
I agree it was a big opportunity to put the reliability thing to bed and TVR slipped up.
Come on Phil/BossCerbera! (TVR's ph browsing marketing/pr guy) Where were you?
Hmm… I've worked in the motor industry, and dealt with journo's in a past job… don't believe all you see / read… I've actually witnessed journo's pulling at items to get them to come off / fall apart to prove a point.
I'm not saying it was done in this instance, only that I have seen some "unfair play" in my time...
I'm not saying it was done in this instance, only that I have seen some "unfair play" in my time...
The cars you saw last night are the best the factory can make. You cant teach old dogs new tricks, get rid of that factory and staff move to new 21st century premises and they will achieve much better standards.
The trouble with TVR is not the management thats been
soughted, its the shop floor. How can you re-educate some chap thats been doing the same thing wrong for his working life.
But be thankfull there design team are on top form that sagaris is a stunner.
The trouble with TVR is not the management thats been
soughted, its the shop floor. How can you re-educate some chap thats been doing the same thing wrong for his working life.
But be thankfull there design team are on top form that sagaris is a stunner.
Podie said:
Hmm… I've worked in the motor industry, and dealt with journo's in a past job… don't believe all you see / read… I've actually witnessed journo's pulling at items to get them to come off / fall apart to prove a point.
I'm not saying it was done in this instance, only that I have seen some "unfair play" in my time...
I've been a motoring journo in a past life (freelance, not full time, admittedly). I'm sure that some journos would go to extremes to 'discover' faults, but they would be very much in the minority. Particularly with British specialist sports cars, I've seen much, much more evidence of patriotic/enthusiastic journos covering up or not reporting faults because they know the impact it would have on these small manufacturers. On balance, I think you'd find that TVR, Lotus, Morgan, Marcos, et. al. get far better treatment from British journalists than they perhaps deserve.
>> Edited by Martin_S on Tuesday 12th April 13:38
I would agree that the press are looking to find faults with cars, thats what they are testing them for.
I would be interested in knowing how much different the handling of the Saggy is compared to a T350, or if the new Tuscan is any better than the last, or how much more performance / £ TVR's deliver compared to the oposition, etc... but last nights fifth gear programme can be summarised as:-
- The new TVR's look dramatic.
- The new TVR's will go sideways if you drive like a tool.
- Bits still fall off...
Stunning new cars that should set the world alight, scare the cr*p out of lotus / Noble / Porsche, and mark an new dawn for the company, but the press just arn't listening.
When the Griffith was first driven by the Press back in the early 90's, there was nothing but praise for the build quality, a real step forward. Whats happened this time?
I would be interested in knowing how much different the handling of the Saggy is compared to a T350, or if the new Tuscan is any better than the last, or how much more performance / £ TVR's deliver compared to the oposition, etc... but last nights fifth gear programme can be summarised as:-
- The new TVR's look dramatic.
- The new TVR's will go sideways if you drive like a tool.
- Bits still fall off...
Stunning new cars that should set the world alight, scare the cr*p out of lotus / Noble / Porsche, and mark an new dawn for the company, but the press just arn't listening.
When the Griffith was first driven by the Press back in the early 90's, there was nothing but praise for the build quality, a real step forward. Whats happened this time?
Maybe their expectations have been unrealistically raised with the new quality programme?
If I knew a car had been delayed to improve quality, I'd expect a marked improvement.
The carpet falling off from under the dash is a common pre-NS issue and just should not have happened to that Sagaris, period.
The indicators on the TII - didn't one of the dealers offer a PH'er a fix to that (and why haven't the factory retrofitted it to their demo cars?).
The new cars are better built, I truely believe that.
However, as someone said earlier in the thread, they will need new processes, tools, time and possibly staff to make a real difference.
In the mean time, the press cars should get all of the latest updates and be thoroughly checked before being sent out (each time). If they're not then it will impact the good work that's been and continues to be done by TVR.
D
If I knew a car had been delayed to improve quality, I'd expect a marked improvement.
The carpet falling off from under the dash is a common pre-NS issue and just should not have happened to that Sagaris, period.
The indicators on the TII - didn't one of the dealers offer a PH'er a fix to that (and why haven't the factory retrofitted it to their demo cars?).
The new cars are better built, I truely believe that.
However, as someone said earlier in the thread, they will need new processes, tools, time and possibly staff to make a real difference.
In the mean time, the press cars should get all of the latest updates and be thoroughly checked before being sent out (each time). If they're not then it will impact the good work that's been and continues to be done by TVR.
D
How can we say they're better built than before? I've come across cerbs from Wheelers era which were built solid, nothing coming loose, no rattles - even after 18k on the clock....
I think its all superficial IMO... I'm still holding out my mind till we see reports on cars running into 10k+ territory on the mileage side... then we'll have a more educated say in this 'quality has improved' matter....
Wheeler did a fine job, he was there on the floor! NS hangs out down south most the time... he's not as hands on as we originally thought... I get this feeling he's pretty much bored of smelling resin and have bits of glass-fibre sticking onto his armani suits....
Like its been said, quality cant get better unless the working environment changes... small advancements in areas such as uniform, a stricter hand, this and that will only work for a short time, and old habits never rest, the workforce who build these cars, are human just like you and me, but they're blackpooleans, and have you ever met someone from blackpool in the morning who is sober????....
I think its all superficial IMO... I'm still holding out my mind till we see reports on cars running into 10k+ territory on the mileage side... then we'll have a more educated say in this 'quality has improved' matter....
Wheeler did a fine job, he was there on the floor! NS hangs out down south most the time... he's not as hands on as we originally thought... I get this feeling he's pretty much bored of smelling resin and have bits of glass-fibre sticking onto his armani suits....
Like its been said, quality cant get better unless the working environment changes... small advancements in areas such as uniform, a stricter hand, this and that will only work for a short time, and old habits never rest, the workforce who build these cars, are human just like you and me, but they're blackpooleans, and have you ever met someone from blackpool in the morning who is sober????....
Podie said:
Hmm… I've worked in the motor industry, and dealt with journo's in a past job… don't believe all you see / read… I've actually witnessed journo's pulling at items to get them to come off / fall apart to prove a point.
I'm not saying it was done in this instance, only that I have seen some "unfair play" in my time...
For the launch of the small hated sports car we sent a load of journos to Spain for the launch drive.
A certain high profile journo was placed at the back of the plane next to the lavs (charter flight, no club seats). He got off the plane walked straight up to the Press Officer and stated in no uncertain terms that it would be slated regardless of how good a car it was solely because of the flight.
He did too.
The Surveyor said:
can anybody explain why TVR don't go over their press release cars with a fine tooth comb to ensure that no bits of trim or knobs etc drop off during the tests
Probably for the same reason that their super marketing manager completely missed the boat in this months EVO. Not a single ad for TVR anywhere in an issue packed with the cars....
The Surveyor said:
After watching the Fifth Gear program last night, can anybody explain why TVR don't go over their press release cars with a fine tooth comb to ensure that no bits of trim or knobs etc drop off during the tests.
Given the new 3 year warranty (not mentioned on the Tuscan 2 / Sagaris test) the press would love to be able to reel out the old stereotype that TVR's are poorly built, smell of glue, etc etc.
The launch of these two new cars, under the new management team was a perfect opertunity to kill this off with bomb-proof press cars, but alas, opertunity missed.
they always do that sir.
I remember the first reviews of the tuscan where every jurno complained about it being a pain in the arse to start as he had to get the little black plastic key into the back of the dashboard to disable the immobiliser..... clearly a reasonably obvious thing you'd think to have someone explain to them or a 'f^ckwits guide to the tuscan' on a bit of A4 on the passenger seat...
1) put key in ignition and press button on key...immobiler not needed, etc.
but nope.
then there's the 'I don't know what button does what' moan.
like a real owner gives a sh^t. Unlike a jurno they drive one car every day (or at most a few). I work out (or RTFM) how the switch gear and radio works. Then I know....never really understood that degree of jurno hacketery.
It's like the enthusiasm for things like electric memory seats..... on a real owners car probably used once ever.
But as for things falling off... I do think some of it is jurnos not giving a sh*t. Unlike you or me, they don't treat it like their pride and joy dream car.. just as another car. So it has to live up to the handling a normal car gets... and I'll be the first to agree that my tuscan wouldn't last long if used like a say, a golf... christ I'm sure the doors would fall off in a week for a start.
stu
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