Hill-climbing season - Hypothetical dream build
Discussion
I did my second ever hill-climb yesterday. (Home town, new event, wanted to support, wanted my kids to see me compete.) I'm 6'8" tall, and weigh 102 kgs currently, so I got whooped, but happily was only beaten by one girl, (apparently some National Champion lass.) However, I quite enjoyed it.
Anyhow, as I was leaning over the handlebars for my 2011 Aluminium Trek road bike, breathing through my armpits, trying not to puke, I began thinking about what I should be riding. I could conceivably get down to 90 kgs before I started to look like a skeleton, so I'm still never gonna win any money hill climbing.
I have no money, and I would make more gains from training and losing weight than buying stuff, etc etc etc, but still, it's a quiet afternoon, and I began to think about it more. Seemingly, the idea is for the bike to be strong as f
k, and light as fk.
It got me thinking about what I would build if I could...
What would you build to do a hill climb on?
Anyhow, as I was leaning over the handlebars for my 2011 Aluminium Trek road bike, breathing through my armpits, trying not to puke, I began thinking about what I should be riding. I could conceivably get down to 90 kgs before I started to look like a skeleton, so I'm still never gonna win any money hill climbing.
I have no money, and I would make more gains from training and losing weight than buying stuff, etc etc etc, but still, it's a quiet afternoon, and I began to think about it more. Seemingly, the idea is for the bike to be strong as f
k, and light as fk.It got me thinking about what I would build if I could...
What would you build to do a hill climb on?
Edited by louiebaby on Monday 16th October 15:46
The one I did at the weekend definitely needed a few options. There was even a small downhill in the middle, briefly.
I'm thinking at the the original Dura-Ace Di2 was 10 spd? Would the 10 spd chain be stronger?
Coupled with either TT bars (not the aero bits) or sawn off carbon bars with the Di2 TT brake levers with changing buttons built in. Rim brakes, so you can wind them away from the rim before and back to closer for the descent back to base.
On the lightest, strongest carbon frame you can find...?
I'm thinking at the the original Dura-Ace Di2 was 10 spd? Would the 10 spd chain be stronger?
Coupled with either TT bars (not the aero bits) or sawn off carbon bars with the Di2 TT brake levers with changing buttons built in. Rim brakes, so you can wind them away from the rim before and back to closer for the descent back to base.
On the lightest, strongest carbon frame you can find...?
I've done a few hill climbs over the years and do my club hillclimb every year , I also like to ride hard up hills in my own time etc
Its odd my club hill climb covers two separate approaches to the same hill, the first stage is 3 miles of long ascent, the second stage is a brutal 16-20% short steep 1/2 mile ascent
The first stage would really favor a TT bike with a position favoring power output , the second stage, anything as long as it is stiff and light.
TBH, unless you are challenging the top 10, I would just use any light stiff bike that has gearing to match your needs.
On steep brutal events I like to fit a longer stem to engage my glutes more out the saddle and I like a stiff wheelset with no flex and 0 play in bearings. Some cheaper and carbon wheels you can really feel flex, or play in the bearings and this really bugs me, when really going for it I like a stiffer frame as well, although once you get past a certain stiffness I no longer notice.
Im about a foot shorter than you, 65kgs and all my power comes in for 2 minutes only then I am done!
Personally I would concentrate on fitness and then look at bike build , as tbh as that will be your biggest factor . At your height I would imagine you would suit the longer hill climb events , thats what ive found climbing with taller riders (I have 2 mates who are nearly 7ft)
Its odd my club hill climb covers two separate approaches to the same hill, the first stage is 3 miles of long ascent, the second stage is a brutal 16-20% short steep 1/2 mile ascent
The first stage would really favor a TT bike with a position favoring power output , the second stage, anything as long as it is stiff and light.
TBH, unless you are challenging the top 10, I would just use any light stiff bike that has gearing to match your needs.
On steep brutal events I like to fit a longer stem to engage my glutes more out the saddle and I like a stiff wheelset with no flex and 0 play in bearings. Some cheaper and carbon wheels you can really feel flex, or play in the bearings and this really bugs me, when really going for it I like a stiffer frame as well, although once you get past a certain stiffness I no longer notice.
Im about a foot shorter than you, 65kgs and all my power comes in for 2 minutes only then I am done!
Personally I would concentrate on fitness and then look at bike build , as tbh as that will be your biggest factor . At your height I would imagine you would suit the longer hill climb events , thats what ive found climbing with taller riders (I have 2 mates who are nearly 7ft)
Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Monday 16th October 17:18
TwistingMyMelon said:
... much useful stuff ...
All very good points, thanks. The one I did sounds like a similar (ish) profile, but a bit shorter.I've toyed with a few local TTs too, and you're probably right, I have endurance on my side, whilst having weight to contend with too. I'm never going to win, but it doesn't mean I can't go and play.
This was also intended as a bit of a dreamy kind of thread... What would you build?
I'm only 64 kg, and I train on hills quite a bit. According to Strava I am doing ok. What is interesting is that the fastest local rider is a hell of a lot quicker than me. Before I met him I expected him to be younger and lighter than me. He is however the same age as me and almost 20kg heavier (He also wins local bike races and does very well in local hill climbs).
So, weight is a disadvantage climbing hills, but training and natural ability shouldn't be underestimated.
Don't worry about being relatively heavy, just get lean and train hard.
So, weight is a disadvantage climbing hills, but training and natural ability shouldn't be underestimated.
Don't worry about being relatively heavy, just get lean and train hard.
i did the swaines lane hillclimb earlier and its amazing how light you can get a bike by taking off the st you dont need.
i got my lapierre down to 6.65kg, with a pair of zipp 202's with conti supersonics.
most of the quick guys were a) seriously light and b) had specialist hill climb bikes running 1x
t you dont need. i got my lapierre down to 6.65kg, with a pair of zipp 202's with conti supersonics.
most of the quick guys were a) seriously light and b) had specialist hill climb bikes running 1x
One of the lads I occasionally ride with has a genuine chance of getting on the podium at this year's National HC. He rides a standard (albeit light) carbon road bike with SRAM Red. I think he has some very light tubs for competition, but other than that his bike is pretty standard. I'd guess maybe 6.5 kg.
I think he weighs about 65 kg, so not THAT light, but he puts out ridiculous power.
I'd love to build up a super-light bike as a project but I can see costs quickly spiralling.
I think he weighs about 65 kg, so not THAT light, but he puts out ridiculous power.
I'd love to build up a super-light bike as a project but I can see costs quickly spiralling.
No we're getting a debate going! I like it.
For me, I think I agree that stiffness is key. I wound the brakes off to stop them rubbing due to frame flex at the weekend. On the turbo, I can see the bottom bracket moving around under load.
It comes back to a version of the old adage, in this case, stiff, light and cheap. Pick two.
I quite like the idea of just having the Front Mech, but would you be able to get close enough ratios? Won't the risk of chain drop be more than the rear.
You might be able to do a 39 or a 42 tooth small ring with a 46 tooth cyclo-cross big ring...
For me, I think I agree that stiffness is key. I wound the brakes off to stop them rubbing due to frame flex at the weekend. On the turbo, I can see the bottom bracket moving around under load.
It comes back to a version of the old adage, in this case, stiff, light and cheap. Pick two.
I quite like the idea of just having the Front Mech, but would you be able to get close enough ratios? Won't the risk of chain drop be more than the rear.
You might be able to do a 39 or a 42 tooth small ring with a 46 tooth cyclo-cross big ring...
no no no no no!
On any decently steep hill, it's really really hard to do a front mech change. You need >1/2 a crank revolution with little to no strain on to change. You'll be apt to drop the chain, or worse twist the bugger.
If you do want to lose weight by compromising the bike, get a narrow wide front end and then rear cassette to suit. If you're going all out, go for single speed like the weight weenies do. Just remember that the 250g you're trying to save is c.0.2% of your total weight.
Fag packet maths:
Take my local club climb. 1500ft total end to end. That 250g is 1120 joules work done.
Winning time is c. 22 minutes. You'll be a lot slower because you have an arse. We'll use 22 mins anyway. 1320 seconds.
It's 0.8 watts. 0.3 of a % assuming you can do 250 watts for 22 minutes. Honestly, forget weight and put 5PSI in your tyres, or go tubeless, or buy lower resistance ones, or tubs whatever ad infinitum. Hell, Clean your chain or https://magazine.bikesoup.com/saving-watts-seconds...
Do any of these. Just don't obsess about weight. The only ones that do are the marketing men. Hell, even the tour pros (who could afford anything that exists in the world of cycling) regularly ride bikes over the UCI minimum weight. The winner of the world champs time trial didn't bother with the bike change for the hilly part (interview said "on paper it's a few seconds quicker but it's marginal and risky".)
Anyways, this aside I'd not fret about it. I've done club 10's and the club hill TT on and off for a few years - victory to me is beating my last time - if you put a magic bullet in your bike and shaved 2 mins off your time but are no more capable, have you achieved anything?
On any decently steep hill, it's really really hard to do a front mech change. You need >1/2 a crank revolution with little to no strain on to change. You'll be apt to drop the chain, or worse twist the bugger.
If you do want to lose weight by compromising the bike, get a narrow wide front end and then rear cassette to suit. If you're going all out, go for single speed like the weight weenies do. Just remember that the 250g you're trying to save is c.0.2% of your total weight.
Fag packet maths:
Take my local club climb. 1500ft total end to end. That 250g is 1120 joules work done.
Winning time is c. 22 minutes. You'll be a lot slower because you have an arse. We'll use 22 mins anyway. 1320 seconds.
It's 0.8 watts. 0.3 of a % assuming you can do 250 watts for 22 minutes. Honestly, forget weight and put 5PSI in your tyres, or go tubeless, or buy lower resistance ones, or tubs whatever ad infinitum. Hell, Clean your chain or https://magazine.bikesoup.com/saving-watts-seconds...
Do any of these. Just don't obsess about weight. The only ones that do are the marketing men. Hell, even the tour pros (who could afford anything that exists in the world of cycling) regularly ride bikes over the UCI minimum weight. The winner of the world champs time trial didn't bother with the bike change for the hilly part (interview said "on paper it's a few seconds quicker but it's marginal and risky".)
Anyways, this aside I'd not fret about it. I've done club 10's and the club hill TT on and off for a few years - victory to me is beating my last time - if you put a magic bullet in your bike and shaved 2 mins off your time but are no more capable, have you achieved anything?
So the consensus seems to be that stiff is more important than light. (Although light is still important, I say guiltily, looking at my work snack drawer.)
I can get on board with that.
Who makes the stiffest frames, with an element of lightness built in, that isn't made out of woven virgin unicorn pubes?
I can get on board with that.
Who makes the stiffest frames, with an element of lightness built in, that isn't made out of woven virgin unicorn pubes?
As before concentrate on fitness not bike, factor in core training as well off the bike, that helped me
I could also never ride fixed or limited gears, I tend to push a big gear out the saddle at the start to 2/3rds of the climb like contador, once my muscles tire i slump into the saddle, drop to a lower cog and spin to the top like a mental hamster, like Froome ! Technique works for me
You will want to train on the bike as well and running one or two gears will kill your knees unless you know they can handle it , plus there are such varieties of hills out there with varying lengths and gradients, running limited gears limits your riding style
The riders that ride fixed tend to be really experienced and know what they are doing not beginners
I could also never ride fixed or limited gears, I tend to push a big gear out the saddle at the start to 2/3rds of the climb like contador, once my muscles tire i slump into the saddle, drop to a lower cog and spin to the top like a mental hamster, like Froome ! Technique works for me
You will want to train on the bike as well and running one or two gears will kill your knees unless you know they can handle it , plus there are such varieties of hills out there with varying lengths and gradients, running limited gears limits your riding style
The riders that ride fixed tend to be really experienced and know what they are doing not beginners
JustinF said:
As usual people ignore the fact that you can do both fitness and lightness 
buying shiny new things is fun!
Agree. People say rather than paying for lightness you might as well go to the toilet before a ride or drop a water bottle. You do that AND buy a light bike. Incremental gains. buying shiny new things is fun!Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff