Exhaust Manifold Leak
Discussion
I have got a small leak on the off-side manifold where the 4 pipes go into 1. The dealer changed the gaskets when I bought the car but I think it was probably the manifold all the time....slight ticking noise tracked down with a piece of tubing.
Appreciate advice on the following
1. Can I remove the off-side manifold bolts from the top ? - they should undo ok as they were last undone 1000 miles ago.
2. How do I remove the Lambda Sensor or can I unplug the wire somewhere ?
3. Will I be able to get the leak welded or should I buy a new manifold (hope not). If the answer to 2 is the wire can be unplugged can I leave the Lambda Sensor in the manifold when the pipe is welded.
4. Is welding this a specialist job or is it the case of just putting a weld over the crack ?
many thanks in advance
Chris
>>> Edited by TVR+Bubblecar on Tuesday 12th April 13:22
Appreciate advice on the following
1. Can I remove the off-side manifold bolts from the top ? - they should undo ok as they were last undone 1000 miles ago.
2. How do I remove the Lambda Sensor or can I unplug the wire somewhere ?
3. Will I be able to get the leak welded or should I buy a new manifold (hope not). If the answer to 2 is the wire can be unplugged can I leave the Lambda Sensor in the manifold when the pipe is welded.
4. Is welding this a specialist job or is it the case of just putting a weld over the crack ?
many thanks in advance
Chris
>>> Edited by TVR+Bubblecar on Tuesday 12th April 13:22
1) Yes, with the right tools, but it's a bugger of a job. Mind you, access from underneath isn't much better.
2) With a spanner. There should be a connector on the leads form the Lambda sensors a lifttle way down - usually somewhere near the chassis crossmember. Just follow the wires down from the sensor, disconnect them, then unbolt the sensor if required (though you might as well leave them in place, if you are careful handling the manifolds.
3) Depends on how good you are at welding. They have a reputation for cracking again later, where welded repairs have been made, though.
2) With a spanner. There should be a connector on the leads form the Lambda sensors a lifttle way down - usually somewhere near the chassis crossmember. Just follow the wires down from the sensor, disconnect them, then unbolt the sensor if required (though you might as well leave them in place, if you are careful handling the manifolds.
3) Depends on how good you are at welding. They have a reputation for cracking again later, where welded repairs have been made, though.
Thanks....I will try and get the dealer to do it under the warranty but I suspect it is excluded as it states exhaust system and cat are not covered.
If that is the case I will give it a go
Chris
PS Martin....see you previously had an Elise....I made the same move but to the Chim.....no regrets except I miss the Elise handling especially when its wet!!
If that is the case I will give it a go
Chris
PS Martin....see you previously had an Elise....I made the same move but to the Chim.....no regrets except I miss the Elise handling especially when its wet!!
Yeah, I have a long history of Lotus affliction.
I'm still not sure whether I've taken to my Tiv - it looks gorgeous, has nice, comfy interior, nice noise, and is very quick in a straght line, but the handling is so far inferior to the cars Lotus were turning out in the 60's, never mind the Elise, that I simply don't have the confidence to drive it really quickly, even in the dry.
I'm toying with the idea of returning to an Elise/Exige, or an Elan Sprint, but time will tell!
I'm still not sure whether I've taken to my Tiv - it looks gorgeous, has nice, comfy interior, nice noise, and is very quick in a straght line, but the handling is so far inferior to the cars Lotus were turning out in the 60's, never mind the Elise, that I simply don't have the confidence to drive it really quickly, even in the dry.
I'm toying with the idea of returning to an Elise/Exige, or an Elan Sprint, but time will tell!
Chris,
Obviously you don't want to go down the route of new manifolds if possible but if it does come to it I've just had 2 de-catted Stainless ones fitted from ACT and not only are they cheaper than TVR equivs with Cats in, they also give a slightly smoother feel to acceleration and look the business, especially when viewed through the bonnet slats.
Alternatively which manifold is it thats gone? On my car it was the passenger side (cracked too bad for repair), meaning I've got a used but good condition drivers side one from a 97 400 Chim (check if they're the same) if you want to make me an offer.
Cheers
Tony
Obviously you don't want to go down the route of new manifolds if possible but if it does come to it I've just had 2 de-catted Stainless ones fitted from ACT and not only are they cheaper than TVR equivs with Cats in, they also give a slightly smoother feel to acceleration and look the business, especially when viewed through the bonnet slats.
Alternatively which manifold is it thats gone? On my car it was the passenger side (cracked too bad for repair), meaning I've got a used but good condition drivers side one from a 97 400 Chim (check if they're the same) if you want to make me an offer.
Cheers
Tony
2 sheds thanks - awaiting the dealer feedback on this
If I have to do it your method of repair suggest it needs a jig when welding it back together - can you recommend who can do this
Also can you explain where the pre-cats and cats are located in the exhaust system - is it just pre-cats with the manifold before the clip at the Y piece and main cat further back ?
thanks
Chris
If I have to do it your method of repair suggest it needs a jig when welding it back together - can you recommend who can do this
Also can you explain where the pre-cats and cats are located in the exhaust system - is it just pre-cats with the manifold before the clip at the Y piece and main cat further back ?
thanks
Chris
Ive just done this for the second time both sides. I got it wrong first time round because I used the thin tin gaskets and probably (thinking now) didn’t clean the manifold faces properly. So I think composite gaskets are better.
The offside is the hardest to remove. You need to be careful with the back bottom two bolts as your spanner can short on the starter solenoid. The bottom back bolt I used a cut down 9/16 spanner and tightened it form the top, I stuffed rag down so I didn’t drop the spanner down the starter motor area. The other bottom three I did from the bottom.
I read allot about this and got advice, there is a web site by Snorky that’s ace www.snorky.co.uk but what I have found is you just need to work round it that best suits you, the positions you can get in and the size of your hands. In my life with working on cars it goes down as the number one pig of a job. And just when you get the manifold on, you then need to re-join the band joint, this is also and art. At this stage I have started to question who the kin hell was the designer. Nuff said.
Best bit of advice I got was from Tower View about filing the faces of the manifolds well to make sure there is a good clean surface to bed down.
As for the weld, I would that's the easy bit (from my experience).
Sorry for the war and peace. Hope it helps.
Rgds
Doug
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 12th April 21:35
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 12th April 21:36
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 12th April 21:40
The offside is the hardest to remove. You need to be careful with the back bottom two bolts as your spanner can short on the starter solenoid. The bottom back bolt I used a cut down 9/16 spanner and tightened it form the top, I stuffed rag down so I didn’t drop the spanner down the starter motor area. The other bottom three I did from the bottom.
I read allot about this and got advice, there is a web site by Snorky that’s ace www.snorky.co.uk but what I have found is you just need to work round it that best suits you, the positions you can get in and the size of your hands. In my life with working on cars it goes down as the number one pig of a job. And just when you get the manifold on, you then need to re-join the band joint, this is also and art. At this stage I have started to question who the kin hell was the designer. Nuff said.
Best bit of advice I got was from Tower View about filing the faces of the manifolds well to make sure there is a good clean surface to bed down.
As for the weld, I would that's the easy bit (from my experience).
Sorry for the war and peace. Hope it helps.
Rgds
Doug
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 12th April 21:35
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 12th April 21:36
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 12th April 21:40
I got Offord motors to do mine when I over-revved it at the Hethel sprint last year and popped a gasket. I thought at first I'd bent something in the top of the engine, and was quite pleased when they said they thought it was "just" the gasket.
Then they couldn't get the bolts out...
It took 3 hours just to do the offside (the side which had actually failed), and they said they couldn't get the nearside ones out at all, and were afraid to try any harder in case they damaged something.
I expect that'll be what goes next - how do you deal with them if you can't get the bolts out...?
Then they couldn't get the bolts out...
It took 3 hours just to do the offside (the side which had actually failed), and they said they couldn't get the nearside ones out at all, and were afraid to try any harder in case they damaged something.
I expect that'll be what goes next - how do you deal with them if you can't get the bolts out...?
IMHO access is all important! The groping blind with half spanners seems like a recipe for disaster. OK it may work sometimes but why take the risk, if you are DIY then take the time, strip & clean everything to give yourself as much room + visibilty as possible.
If they are solid, an overnight soak with WD40 should be given anyway, good even heat helps (personally I think alloy responds best to boiling water but each to his own) and you can use a centre punch to 'carefully' tap the locknuts and bolt head & try & break the rust 'bond'.
New bolts / locknuts and copperslip are not expensive, well worth replacing if you are in any doubt.
Dave
If they are solid, an overnight soak with WD40 should be given anyway, good even heat helps (personally I think alloy responds best to boiling water but each to his own) and you can use a centre punch to 'carefully' tap the locknuts and bolt head & try & break the rust 'bond'.
New bolts / locknuts and copperslip are not expensive, well worth replacing if you are in any doubt.
Dave
as said, my write-up is on wwww.snorky.co.uk as far as I'm aware you need a socket with a slot cut in it to get the lambdas out safely as there isn't much room for a spanner ( if any ) I left mine in as I didn't need the welding done...and there is a connector for the wires you can pull apart...
new dashboard write-up coming soon...
new dashboard write-up coming soon...
On this subject, I still have that "loving" sound of phutting from the manifold. Im wondering whether the manifolds warped or something. Im taking them off again. This time Im definately going to use gasket sealant... has anybody used this before if so what is it and where did you get it from. I need to get it right third time lucky as Im going off TVRs rapidly at the moment
Doug
Doug
Dobi said:
This time I'm definately going to use gasket sealant... has anybody used this before if so what is it and where did you get it from.
Doug
I'm probably going to get flamed by a lot of people who disagree, but:
I've not had good experiences of exhaust sealant 'paste' on manifolds - it seems to become too brittle when exposed to very high temperatures.
I have, however, found that a smear of high temperature silicone 'instant gasket'(of the sort available from Halfrauds or any decent motor factor) works very well. The box/tube usually says that it is only rated to 400 degrees C or something (which I guess is lower than it might be exposed to at a head/manifold joint), but has worked fine for me and seems to help the gaskets provide a decent seal. Be careful not to use too much, though - you probably don't want strings of silicone clogging up your catalyst!
Quick update
1. Dealer confirmed not covered under the AP Warranty - no surprises there then
2. Having looked at a previous thread I noticed someone made a temp repair by forcing gum-gum up between the 4 pipes.....if you know what I mean
3. I have also done this also the result being
a) proved the manifold is leaking because when I started her up to warm the pipes the gum-gum blew back in a bubble - but now it has hardened there is no leak and the whole engine noise is more pleasant
b) I have found the nearside manifold is also leaking slightly - so will carry out same fix
I am treating this as a temporary solution and will replace both manifolds with the ACT solution when funds are available
Chris
1. Dealer confirmed not covered under the AP Warranty - no surprises there then
2. Having looked at a previous thread I noticed someone made a temp repair by forcing gum-gum up between the 4 pipes.....if you know what I mean
3. I have also done this also the result being
a) proved the manifold is leaking because when I started her up to warm the pipes the gum-gum blew back in a bubble - but now it has hardened there is no leak and the whole engine noise is more pleasant
b) I have found the nearside manifold is also leaking slightly - so will carry out same fix
I am treating this as a temporary solution and will replace both manifolds with the ACT solution when funds are available
Chris
Ive just had leaky exhaust looked and and had both manifolds refitted with new gaskets which unfortunately hasn't cured the "fut fut" sound under load. Garage confirmed cracked manifold which appears to be a very expensive problem to fix as the crack is in the part where the 4 pipes meet so was told welding is a non-option.
TVR Power in Coventry have told me they can weld it but it needs the manifold cutting in half (??) first to get to the bit that needs welding - great! Its a much cheaper option than replacement.
What is the Gum-gum stuff? Is it worth using as a temporary solution until I can get the manifold welded?
TVR Power in Coventry have told me they can weld it but it needs the manifold cutting in half (??) first to get to the bit that needs welding - great! Its a much cheaper option than replacement.
What is the Gum-gum stuff? Is it worth using as a temporary solution until I can get the manifold welded?
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