Aquaplaning

[SkinnyPete]

What has been peoples experience with aquaplaning and Porsches?

I ask because the rear tyres really are quite wide and one would assume that they would suffer first and without warning, lifting the back of the car up and sending it oversteering into the armco?

Contrary to this I've never had an issue with my Caymans (235 front, 265 rear), were as I have experienced aquaplaning on numerous front wheel drive hatchbacks (normally rental cars with budget 205 section tyres).

Is the "wide tyres are more susceptible to aquaplaning" misleading or have I just been lucky? Personally I would take my 265 rear tyres to keep me safe on a drenched Nurburgring compared to any hatchback wearing something more conventional.

[996TT02]

1) Most of the weight is on the rear, assuming 911
2) Fronts depart the tarmac - they hit the water first, if they don't, they would have cleared the water for the rears anyway.

[tuffer]

Only once, spotted some standing water on the A303. Got off the gas and managed to scrub off some speed before hitting it but still got a tank slapper on. Time spent on the ice hill at PEC is not wasted.

[SkinnyPete]

996TT02 said:

1) Most of the weight is on the rear, assuming 911
2) Fronts depart the tarmac - they hit the water first, if they don't, they would have cleared the water for the rears anyway.

I'm not sure that theory is true though, there are plenty of videos on youtube where the aquaplaning car loses grip at the rear first, this makes sense when you think that the amount of water necessary to induce aquaplaning will differ for each axle.

[stevewak]

Only a narrow-body-993 owner, but stating the obvious you need plenty of tread. My car eats rear tyres. I never trust it at speed in monsoon conditions on motorway, partly because of other drivers up your chuff when you are settling it all down.

[Hoofy]

SkinnyPete said:

996TT02 said:

1) Most of the weight is on the rear, assuming 911
2) Fronts depart the tarmac - they hit the water first, if they don't, they would have cleared the water for the rears anyway.

I'm not sure that theory is true though, there are plenty of videos on youtube where the aquaplaning car loses grip at the rear first, this makes sense when you think that the amount of water necessary to induce aquaplaning will differ for each axle.

Interesting thread. I've done it in a TVR Chimaera with normal tyres on. Fortunately, it was on a track. Before I knew what had happened, I was facing the wrong way on a straight.

[Porsche911R]

I have only had it on the front wheels

once in a GT3 where the tyres were shot and I picked the car up in the rain and it went a bit scary at 70+ mph ie no steering !!!

and once on the M40 which is well known for it, but I forget the car.

yes you get it for mili seconds in the winter but it's a non issue, real Aquaplaning is just plain scary.

Cadwell park is scary in the rain

https://youtu.be/lCQYm0MDpxo

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 27th October 11:36

[stevewak]

Porsche911R said:

and once on the M40 which is well know for it

Yes - downhill after Beaconsfield out to Oxford.

[v8ksn]

A recent explanation I read on aquaplaning that I found funny.......

"...if you are on a road in a light sports car with wide tyres you more likely to aquaplane than the heavy van on skinny tyres that goes past you at twice the speed. Why? Because the heavier vehicle with the narrow footprint can 'cut through' the water to reach the road but the lighter vehicle with wide tyres cannot.

Imagine two fat girls standing on a bouncy castle One is wearing flip flops and the other is wearing stilettos, which one punctures the castle?...."

[Porsche911R]

v8ksn said:

A recent explanation I read on aquaplaning that I found funny.......

"...if you are on a road in a light sports car with wide tyres you more likely to aquaplane than the heavy van on skinny tyres that goes past you at twice the speed. Why? Because the heavier vehicle with the narrow footprint can 'cut through' the water to reach the road but the lighter vehicle with wide tyres cannot.

Imagine two fat girls standing on a bouncy castle One is wearing flip flops and the other is wearing stilettos, which one punctures the castle?...."

why do they have to be fat, it's ruined my image. can we have two real sexy size 8 girls with wet t-shirts and pert nipples, one in sandles on in **** me shoes and ask the same question as it's the same outcome ;-)

although at this point I am not caring which one punctures the castle..... back in 15 minutes :-)

[rlw]

Porsche911R said:

why do they have to be fat, it's ruined my image. can we have two real sexy size 8 girls with wet t-shirts and pert nipples, one in sandles on in **** me shoes and ask the same question as it's the same outcome ;-)

although at this point I am not caring which one punctures the castle..... back in 15 minutes :-)

Fantasies are OK but getting the spelling wrong isn't.

Sandals.

[Porsche911R]

rlw said:

Fantasies are OK but getting the spelling wrong isn't.

Sandals.

Crap more spelling police ;-)

[seveoff9]

Scariest driving moment of my life. 25 years ago VW Corrado in outside lane of A470 north of Cardiff. Driving like a knob in the rain on a busy Sat afternoon and hit a patch of water, did a 360 and ended up facing the right way on the hard shoulder. The sight of facing cars at the 180 degree point still haunts me. I was very lucky and even though I still enjoy driving in a spirited fashion, and modern porsches have great safety features, I keep my eyes peeled for the puddles!

[Kawasicki]

I once followed a 964 carrera 2 into a deep flood on a gentle corner on an Austrian autobahn. I was driving a 944 Turbo.

Both cars immediately lost grip, and started understeering...I held the steering wheel constant and the 964 driver applied lock. After maybe 30 to 40 metres both cars regained grip, the 964 had a couple of oversteer oscillations (tank slapper), the driver almost managed to bring it under control, but ended up gently kissing armco, my 944 just continued on, albeit on a bigger cornering radius, but no drama.

I think a few aquaplaning accidents are due to driver error.

[Pugley]

In reply to the OPs question:-

Yes wide tyres aquaplane far more easily than skinny tyres.

Quite frankly most 911s are horrible to drive at speed in heavy rain.

Be very careful.

[tuffer]

Kawasicki said:

I once followed a 964 carrera 2 into a deep flood on a gentle corner on an Austrian autobahn. I was driving a 944 Turbo.

Both cars immediately lost grip, and started understeering...I held the steering wheel constant and the 964 driver applied lock. After maybe 30 to 40 metres both cars regained grip, the 964 had a couple of oversteer oscillations (tank slapper), the driver almost managed to bring it under control, but ended up gently kissing armco, my 944 just continued on, albeit on a bigger cornering radius, but no drama.

I think a few aquaplaning accidents are due to driver error.

Mine was on a straight stretch of road, never applied any steering lock and the rear still tried to overtake the front which required steering input to correct. The issue with the 911 is the weight being at the rear. when it does get loose it wants to be somewhere else.

[IknowJoseph]

stevewak said:

Only a narrow-body-993 owner, but stating the obvious you need plenty of tread. My car eats rear tyres. I never trust it at speed in monsoon conditions on motorway, partly because of other drivers up your chuff when you are settling it all down.

Exactly this in a narrow 996 with wide wheels: When the back starts leaving the road in the wet it's time for new rear boots.

[Steve Rance]

If you are careful, you can drive a 911 in standing water on any tyre - including worn cups

As soon as you see standing water get a little weight on the nose as quickly and smoothly as you can. That will give you a steering footprint. Don't accelerate until you are clear of the standing water - that will reduce you steering footprint and could also break rear traction. Once you are confident that you have steerage keep a constant throttle until you are clear. If you are approaching at speed, get as much off as you can before you enter the standing water and make sure that you do not pick up the throttle until you are clear - just keep it constant

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 28th October 12:06

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 28th October 12:09

[RSVP911]

Steve Rance said:

If you are careful, you can drive a 911 in standing water on any tyre - including worn cups

As soon as you see standing water get a little weight on the nose as quickly and smoothly as you can. That will give you a steering footprint. Don't accelerate until you are clear of the standing water - that will reduce you steering footprint and could also break rear traction. Once you are confident that you have steerage keep a constant throttle until you are clear. If you are approaching at speed, get as much off as you can before you enter the standing water and make sure that you do not pick up the throttle until you are clear - just keep it constant

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 28th October 12:06

Edited by Steve Rance on Saturday 28th October 12:09

Hi Steve thanks for this - just so I’m clear, are you saying constant throttle throughout or no throttle until through the water - I’m clear about not putting more speed on until past the water - thanks

[SkinnyPete]

Pugley said:

In reply to the OPs question:-

Yes wide tyres aquaplane far more easily than skinny tyres.

Quite frankly most 911s are horrible to drive at speed in heavy rain.

Be very careful.

I understand the theory but is there any evidence? If it were the case would we not a see a lot of 911 shaped holes at the road side?