Giving a bad/good reference
Discussion
A friend of mine has been asked by the HR Dept of another company within the Group where she works to provide a reference for somebody who used to work within her team. The problem is
This woman wasn't great at her job.
She was fantastic at b
hing and creating conflict.
They are still within the same social group.
They are likely to run into each other at corporate events.
She doesn't want to give a bad reference because the girl has the right to ask to see it.
She doesn't want to lie as it's not fair on the new boss.
..so she's caught between a rock and a hard place. Personally I'd give a non-committal reference ad have an informal word with the new Line Manager.
She wants to know how she can word it so that, on the face of it it looks fine but reading between the lines whoever reads it can pick up the warning signs.
Also another thing to mention.... Very hot. Both of them.
This woman wasn't great at her job.
She was fantastic at b
hing and creating conflict.They are still within the same social group.
They are likely to run into each other at corporate events.
She doesn't want to give a bad reference because the girl has the right to ask to see it.
She doesn't want to lie as it's not fair on the new boss.
..so she's caught between a rock and a hard place. Personally I'd give a non-committal reference ad have an informal word with the new Line Manager.
She wants to know how she can word it so that, on the face of it it looks fine but reading between the lines whoever reads it can pick up the warning signs.
Also another thing to mention.... Very hot. Both of them.
Every organisation I've worked for has had a policy of requiring those asked for references to do or say nothing other than confirming that a person of that name with that date of birth worked for the firm between the specified dates. What does your firm's HR policy say?
IIRC the reason given was that this was a result of a case where a firm successfully argued that another firm owed it a duty of care (or something similar), despite no contract or other relationship etc between them, and that it had suffered by acting on a positive, but allegedly unjustified, reference given by that other firm.
Employers might ring you instead, or to follow up on the simple factual statements. I'd still be circumspect. There really is little mileage for you in being anything other than factual.
From my experience, I'd also take any HR function's assurances about treating information confidentially as seriously as an email soliciting banking help from a Nigerian president's widow...
IIRC the reason given was that this was a result of a case where a firm successfully argued that another firm owed it a duty of care (or something similar), despite no contract or other relationship etc between them, and that it had suffered by acting on a positive, but allegedly unjustified, reference given by that other firm.
Employers might ring you instead, or to follow up on the simple factual statements. I'd still be circumspect. There really is little mileage for you in being anything other than factual.
From my experience, I'd also take any HR function's assurances about treating information confidentially as seriously as an email soliciting banking help from a Nigerian president's widow...
Countdown said:
A friend of mine has been asked by the HR Dept of another company within the Group where she works to provide a reference for somebody who used to work within her team. The problem is
This woman wasn't great at her job.
She was fantastic at bhing and creating conflict.
They are still within the same social group.
They are likely to run into each other at corporate events.
She doesn't want to give a bad reference because the girl has the right to ask to see it.
She doesn't want to lie as it's not fair on the new boss.
..so she's caught between a rock and a hard place. Personally I'd give a non-committal reference ad have an informal word with the new Line Manager.
She wants to know how she can word it so that, on the face of it it looks fine but reading between the lines whoever reads it can pick up the warning signs.
Also another thing to mention.... Very hot. Both of them.
Was the request in writing or a verbal request.This woman wasn't great at her job.
She was fantastic at b
hing and creating conflict.They are still within the same social group.
They are likely to run into each other at corporate events.
She doesn't want to give a bad reference because the girl has the right to ask to see it.
She doesn't want to lie as it's not fair on the new boss.
..so she's caught between a rock and a hard place. Personally I'd give a non-committal reference ad have an informal word with the new Line Manager.
She wants to know how she can word it so that, on the face of it it looks fine but reading between the lines whoever reads it can pick up the warning signs.
Also another thing to mention.... Very hot. Both of them.
768 said:
condor said:
'Name of person' worked at 'name of company' as ' position employed' from 'date of start' to 'date of finish'
Is all that really needs to be stated I think.
+1Is all that really needs to be stated I think.
If you do go on to describe performance, which really should only come in to play if you had to dismiss the employee, be factual and have evidence to back up any statements if challenged.
Limited references are supported by govt:
https://www.gov.uk/work-reference
Thanks for all the suggestions.
The "limited reference" is the route we've usually gone down, or pointed them towards HR. However the complication here is that we've only done that for people who have left the organisation and we aren't likely to run into them.
In this case they both still work for the same company, are both supposed to be "friends" so if a limited (or No) reference is given it will be awkward. Especially as the other person knows that we happily and regularly give references to other people who have been in the same position.
The "limited reference" is the route we've usually gone down, or pointed them towards HR. However the complication here is that we've only done that for people who have left the organisation and we aren't likely to run into them.
In this case they both still work for the same company, are both supposed to be "friends" so if a limited (or No) reference is given it will be awkward. Especially as the other person knows that we happily and regularly give references to other people who have been in the same position.
Countdown said:
Thanks for all the suggestions.
The "limited reference" is the route we've usually gone down, or pointed them towards HR. However the complication here is that we've only done that for people who have left the organisation and we aren't likely to run into them.
In this case they both still work for the same company, are both supposed to be "friends" so if a limited (or No) reference is given it will be awkward. Especially as the other person knows that we happily and regularly give references to other people who have been in the same position.
Do you have the influence to get the HR director to promulgate a general ban on doing so pronto? It might be a good idea, anyway, regardless of these circumstances.The "limited reference" is the route we've usually gone down, or pointed them towards HR. However the complication here is that we've only done that for people who have left the organisation and we aren't likely to run into them.
In this case they both still work for the same company, are both supposed to be "friends" so if a limited (or No) reference is given it will be awkward. Especially as the other person knows that we happily and regularly give references to other people who have been in the same position.
psi310398 said:
Do you have the influence to get the HR director to promulgate a general ban on doing so pronto? It might be a good idea, anyway, regardless of these circumstances.
HR already insist that all reference requests go directly to them.However managers have usually ignored them when they've wanted to give former employees good references OR used the "Please speak to HR" when they've NOT wanted to give a reference. The latter hasn't been an issue before because it's unlikely the Manager will run into the ex-employee.
The complication in this case is that the other girl has changed jobs but stayed within the Group of companies. So she knows managers regularly ignore HR directions and there's a good chance they'll run into each other at work, and probably outside of work as well.
I'm going to tell her to do a "damn by faint praise" reference.
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