When a civil airliner becomes a Military one..
Discussion
They go through a very similar system of checks only the military system tends to happen at sooner intervals so we have daily, weekly & monthly checks in addition to timed or event based tasks (landings or run hours etc) which are carried out by flightline personnel as well as the A-C checks from the civil world (called different things in the Military - Minors etc) which are usually carried out by hangar based support teams.
The A-C equivalent checks are typically carried out on base (hangar) where as the more indepth D checks (called Majors in the RAF) are carried out either on base by a specialist team (depends on type) or, more likely, sent to a contracted civil depot like Marshalls at Cambridge etc for work.
EDITED - Just to confirm, I'm talking about civil airliners which are used full time by the military like the Tri-Star (the L-1011 mentioned), VC-10, A330 etc rather than a chartered aircraft.
The A-C equivalent checks are typically carried out on base (hangar) where as the more indepth D checks (called Majors in the RAF) are carried out either on base by a specialist team (depends on type) or, more likely, sent to a contracted civil depot like Marshalls at Cambridge etc for work.
EDITED - Just to confirm, I'm talking about civil airliners which are used full time by the military like the Tri-Star (the L-1011 mentioned), VC-10, A330 etc rather than a chartered aircraft.
Edited by IanH755 on Tuesday 31st October 11:17
texaxile said:
..does it still need to go in for the same regular "D" checks it would have done when it was flying joe public around?.
I was just remembering the old L1011 Tristars that the RAF used to ferry Staff around and wondered.
Did they retain the civilian seats or was the seating more basic and utility standard?I was just remembering the old L1011 Tristars that the RAF used to ferry Staff around and wondered.
ninja-lewis said:
They only have a single S-76C++ these days. It's on the civilian register (G-XXEB) so will follow civilian airworthiness rules and probably gets extra checks given its role.
It used to operate out of Blackbushe apparently until the incident when a helicopter crashed in fog in central London. Believe it is now operated by the military but as it appears the Queen was looking for a pilot last year maybe not
Civil airliners have been used for military flights for decades. Back in the 1950s Blackbushe Airport was a main trooping airfield in the south of England with airlines like Eagle, Donlalsdon, Invicta, Airwork etc flying troops out to far flung destinations such as the Middle or Far East.
During the Vietnam War, the US Army flew tens of thousands of troops to and from the war zone using chartered airliners. Continental, Pan Am and World Airways were fairly common contractors.
In 1978, the Irish Army was tasked with UN peacekeeping duties in Lebanon. Most of them were flown out on Trans International Airways DC-10s.
During the Vietnam War, the US Army flew tens of thousands of troops to and from the war zone using chartered airliners. Continental, Pan Am and World Airways were fairly common contractors.
In 1978, the Irish Army was tasked with UN peacekeeping duties in Lebanon. Most of them were flown out on Trans International Airways DC-10s.
Chrisgr31 said:
It used to operate out of Blackbushe apparently until the incident when a helicopter crashed in fog in central London. Believe it is now operated by the military but as it appears the Queen was looking for a pilot last year maybe not
No I think it is operated by a private contractor.Chrisgr31 said:
ninja-lewis said:
They only have a single S-76C++ these days. It's on the civilian register (G-XXEB) so will follow civilian airworthiness rules and probably gets extra checks given its role.
It used to operate out of Blackbushe apparently until the incident when a helicopter crashed in fog in central London. Believe it is now operated by the military but as it appears the Queen was looking for a pilot last year maybe notThey operate 2 aircraft G-XXEB as mentioned earlier and G-XXEC a blue A109 which is better suited to confined area landings.
texaxile said:
..does it still need to go in for the same regular "D" checks it would have done when it was flying joe public around?.
I was just remembering the old L1011 Tristars that the RAF used to ferry Staff around and wondered.
Why have you asked this question? And you have not made any further comments on this thread.I was just remembering the old L1011 Tristars that the RAF used to ferry Staff around and wondered.
What do you want to know?
SantaBarbara said:
Why have you asked this question? And you have not made any further comments on this thread.
What do you want to know?
I don't work to your schedule.What do you want to know?
My reason for asking was an interest in at which point the aircraft ceases to be under Civil Aviation rules for checks and becomes Military responsiblity and if they were the same across the board. If the military say, leased a civilian airliner for a year and during that time it needed to go in for a check, under whose remit does it fall? - this was answered pretty comprehensively by IanH.
Curiosity also, as the RAF were still using Tristars a good while after many of the commercial companies stopped using them, albeit in varying capacities.
SantaBarbara said:
texaxile said:
..does it still need to go in for the same regular "D" checks it would have done when it was flying joe public around?.
I was just remembering the old L1011 Tristars that the RAF used to ferry Staff around and wondered.
Did they retain the civilian seats or was the seating more basic and utility standard?I was just remembering the old L1011 Tristars that the RAF used to ferry Staff around and wondered.
Three of the aircraft were just passenger aircraft, the rest were tankers/freighters/passengers as well.
texaxile said:
I don't work to your schedule.
My reason for asking was an interest in at which point the aircraft ceases to be under Civil Aviation rules for checks and becomes Military responsiblity and if they were the same across the board. If the military say, leased a civilian airliner for a year and during that time it needed to go in for a check, under whose remit does it fall? - this was answered pretty comprehensively by IanH.
Curiosity also, as the RAF were still using Tristars a good while after many of the commercial companies stopped using them, albeit in varying capacities.
A civilian operator was looking at buying the ex RAF Tristars but I don't know what for or what came of it.My reason for asking was an interest in at which point the aircraft ceases to be under Civil Aviation rules for checks and becomes Military responsiblity and if they were the same across the board. If the military say, leased a civilian airliner for a year and during that time it needed to go in for a check, under whose remit does it fall? - this was answered pretty comprehensively by IanH.
Curiosity also, as the RAF were still using Tristars a good while after many of the commercial companies stopped using them, albeit in varying capacities.
An interesting project was the military Belfasts that went on the civil register in the 1970s. That aircraft had never been a civil airliner and yet needed a certificate of airworthiness to be used as a commercial freighter. Much of their work turned out to be for the RAF anyway.
texaxile said:
I don't work to your schedule.
My reason for asking was an interest in at which point the aircraft ceases to be under Civil Aviation rules for checks and becomes Military responsiblity and if they were the same across the board. If the military say, leased a civilian airliner for a year and during that time it needed to go in for a check, under whose remit does it fall? - this was answered pretty comprehensively by IanH.
Curiosity also, as the RAF were still using Tristars a good while after many of the commercial companies stopped using them, albeit in varying capacities.
If its leased/rented/chartered whatever you want to call it by the RAF then it will stay on the civilian register with civilian maintenance. My reason for asking was an interest in at which point the aircraft ceases to be under Civil Aviation rules for checks and becomes Military responsiblity and if they were the same across the board. If the military say, leased a civilian airliner for a year and during that time it needed to go in for a check, under whose remit does it fall? - this was answered pretty comprehensively by IanH.
Curiosity also, as the RAF were still using Tristars a good while after many of the commercial companies stopped using them, albeit in varying capacities.
Tristar was different as it was owned by the raf and on the military register. So it's maintained under military rules, although in practice not radically different from civilian rules.
Voyager is an odd one, some are civil registered, some are military. Not bought by the raf though so all maintained to civvy regulations by (raf+civ) CAA licensed engineers. Majority of the rest of the raf engineers are not licensed.
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