BMW GS Alternative
Discussion
I had a Honda Crosstourer VFR1200. Did 32,000 commuting/ play miles on it in 2.5 years and the only problem was a blown headlight bulb.
Fantastic silky smooth undrer stressed V4 engine, superb build quality and could pick up it's skirts and boogie when in the mood. Only down side was the weight, not that you ever noticed once moving but it is high weight. Only bike I've ever dropped when moving it about in 30 yrs. And I did it twice. You need assistance picking it back up.
Went through a couple of winters commuting and scrubbed up like new come sale time.
Made the GS I had previously feel like a cheap old nail. But that was pre water cooled.
I'd buy another if I needed a long distance all year round commuter bike.
Fantastic silky smooth undrer stressed V4 engine, superb build quality and could pick up it's skirts and boogie when in the mood. Only down side was the weight, not that you ever noticed once moving but it is high weight. Only bike I've ever dropped when moving it about in 30 yrs. And I did it twice. You need assistance picking it back up.
Went through a couple of winters commuting and scrubbed up like new come sale time.
Made the GS I had previously feel like a cheap old nail. But that was pre water cooled.
I'd buy another if I needed a long distance all year round commuter bike.
What year GS are you looking at - that'll make a difference when asking if there is anything more reliable..
Mines 2004 (air cooled) and just ticked over 55k - original final drive, clutch, engine etc and still goes fine, I commute on it every day. I've done 10k since March on it.
A close friend has a 2008 GSA (air cooled) and his has just ticked over 140,000 miles, original engine, replaced the final drive with a refurbished one at 130,000 miles.
New ones - that's a different story, so i've heard.
Mines 2004 (air cooled) and just ticked over 55k - original final drive, clutch, engine etc and still goes fine, I commute on it every day. I've done 10k since March on it.
A close friend has a 2008 GSA (air cooled) and his has just ticked over 140,000 miles, original engine, replaced the final drive with a refurbished one at 130,000 miles.
New ones - that's a different story, so i've heard.
I'm with Spareparts on this one, we've all heard stories of the GS s
tting itself, but I just can't believe it's that bad personally. They sell absolutely loads of the things, to customers who expect reliability, and many do insane mileages. I'm similarly not convinced that Triumph offers a more robust alternative to anything, but I'm open to be wrong on both counts.
I'm not really an adventure bike person either, but I recently bought an Africa Twin, and would think what you want the bike for is a big decider here. I do rate Honda build quality, but the 21" front wheel, significant power deficit, and chain drive, should all be considered before it's the Honda is considered as a viable alternative to a GS, which objectively better at a great many things, and I'm skeptical reliability is sufficiently poor to ignore the advantages of the GS over it's competitors.
tting itself, but I just can't believe it's that bad personally. They sell absolutely loads of the things, to customers who expect reliability, and many do insane mileages. I'm similarly not convinced that Triumph offers a more robust alternative to anything, but I'm open to be wrong on both counts.I'm not really an adventure bike person either, but I recently bought an Africa Twin, and would think what you want the bike for is a big decider here. I do rate Honda build quality, but the 21" front wheel, significant power deficit, and chain drive, should all be considered before it's the Honda is considered as a viable alternative to a GS, which objectively better at a great many things, and I'm skeptical reliability is sufficiently poor to ignore the advantages of the GS over it's competitors.
Prof Prolapse said:
I'm with Spareparts on this one, we've all heard stories of the GS stting itself, but I just can't believe it's that bad personally. They sell absolutely loads of the things, to customers who expect reliability, and many do insane mileages. I'm similarly not convinced that Triumph offers a more robust alternative to anything, but I'm open to be wrong on both counts.
I'm not really an adventure bike person either, but I recently bought an Africa Twin, and would think what you want the bike for is a big decider here. I do rate Honda build quality, but the 21" front wheel, significant power deficit, and chain drive, should all be considered before it's the Honda is considered as a viable alternative to a GS, which objectively better at a great many things, and I'm skeptical reliability is sufficiently poor to ignore the advantages of the GS over it's competitors.
You highlight some really valid issues of why the AT is simply not as good a road bike as the GS. People forget that the 1200GS is designed primarily as a road bike first, and not the off-roader many think it doesn’t try to be. Reliability of my MY17 GS has been flawless over the past 12mos and 12k miles. And my previous MY15 GS was also flawless over similar mileage. tting itself, but I just can't believe it's that bad personally. They sell absolutely loads of the things, to customers who expect reliability, and many do insane mileages. I'm similarly not convinced that Triumph offers a more robust alternative to anything, but I'm open to be wrong on both counts.I'm not really an adventure bike person either, but I recently bought an Africa Twin, and would think what you want the bike for is a big decider here. I do rate Honda build quality, but the 21" front wheel, significant power deficit, and chain drive, should all be considered before it's the Honda is considered as a viable alternative to a GS, which objectively better at a great many things, and I'm skeptical reliability is sufficiently poor to ignore the advantages of the GS over it's competitors.
The KTM1290 is more powerful, but it’s not any quicker in the real world as the GS has the best drive on corner exit of any bike I know. And Chain is a negative on tour.
Multidoodle is a great road bike too with class and superb road manners. But chain.
S1000XR. I shared my view in the other thread, but there’s a reason why it is no where near as popular as the GS.
Triumph Explorer - nice bikes, but really heavy and ponderous compared to the GS. Nice effort, but a wannabe.
Honda Crosstourer - superb engine and finish, but just boring to ride compared to the shorter geared and eager GS.
PHBB knock the GS, but it is a really fun bike to ride with it’s short gearing, laugh out loud drive on every corner, comfort when you need it over distance, and just all round user friendliness with every modcon. And as I’ve found, it is as fast as you want it on any given ride out around Blighty. Above 90, it gets a little floaty at the front end when hooning, but it always cruises brilliantly, and both A and B roads are equally good solo or 2-up with luggage. The Telelever absorbs broken roads and allows you to maintain incredible progress when traditionally suspended bikes would have the rider in knots.
spareparts said:
Prof Prolapse said:
I'm with Spareparts on this one, we've all heard stories of the GS stting itself, but I just can't believe it's that bad personally. They sell absolutely loads of the things, to customers who expect reliability, and many do insane mileages. I'm similarly not convinced that Triumph offers a more robust alternative to anything, but I'm open to be wrong on both counts.
I'm not really an adventure bike person either, but I recently bought an Africa Twin, and would think what you want the bike for is a big decider here. I do rate Honda build quality, but the 21" front wheel, significant power deficit, and chain drive, should all be considered before it's the Honda is considered as a viable alternative to a GS, which objectively better at a great many things, and I'm skeptical reliability is sufficiently poor to ignore the advantages of the GS over it's competitors.
You highlight some really valid issues of why the AT is simply not as good a road bike as the GS. People forget that the 1200GS is designed primarily as a road bike first, and not the off-roader many think it doesn’t try to be. Reliability of my MY17 GS has been flawless over the past 12mos and 12k miles. And my previous MY15 GS was also flawless over similar mileage. tting itself, but I just can't believe it's that bad personally. They sell absolutely loads of the things, to customers who expect reliability, and many do insane mileages. I'm similarly not convinced that Triumph offers a more robust alternative to anything, but I'm open to be wrong on both counts.I'm not really an adventure bike person either, but I recently bought an Africa Twin, and would think what you want the bike for is a big decider here. I do rate Honda build quality, but the 21" front wheel, significant power deficit, and chain drive, should all be considered before it's the Honda is considered as a viable alternative to a GS, which objectively better at a great many things, and I'm skeptical reliability is sufficiently poor to ignore the advantages of the GS over it's competitors.
The KTM1290 is more powerful, but it’s not any quicker in the real world as the GS has the best drive on corner exit of any bike I know. And Chain is a negative on tour.
Multidoodle is a great road bike too with class and superb road manners. But chain.
S1000XR. I shared my view in the other thread, but there’s a reason why it is no where near as popular as the GS.
Triumph Explorer - nice bikes, but really heavy and ponderous compared to the GS. Nice effort, but a wannabe.
Honda Crosstourer - superb engine and finish, but just boring to ride compared to the shorter geared and eager GS.
PHBB knock the GS, but it is a really fun bike to ride with it’s short gearing, laugh out loud drive on every corner, comfort when you need it over distance, and just all round user friendliness with every modcon. And as I’ve found, it is as fast as you want it on any given ride out around Blighty. Above 90, it gets a little floaty at the front end when hooning, but it always cruises brilliantly, and both A and B roads are equally good solo or 2-up with luggage. The Telelever absorbs broken roads and allows you to maintain incredible progress when traditionally suspended bikes would have the rider in knots.
What I want is something adventure touringy, that can also do a bit of off-road. I'd be touring with a passenger too. The GS1200 is top of the list, but reliability does seem to be a concern. I love the Africa Twin, but am not sure whether it would be suited to two up touring. I definitely don't want some super comfy lardy bike, even though that would be the most comfortable.
I really like the idea of a Triumph, but have read that are significantly behind BMW in terms of evolution/development. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 2018 models have changed.
Bob_Defly said:
Good feedback, thanks.
What I want is something adventure touringy, that can also do a bit of off-road. I'd be touring with a passenger too. The GS1200 is top of the list, but reliability does seem to be a concern. I love the Africa Twin, but am not sure whether it would be suited to two up touring. I definitely don't want some super comfy lardy bike, even though that would be the most comfortable.
I really like the idea of a Triumph, but have read that are significantly behind BMW in terms of evolution/development. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 2018 models have changed.
Define "off-road" in your world. Literally any bike can do 'a bit of off-road', but it depends on whether you're talking about a few fire-trails / gravel packed back roads, or deep marshy bogs and hip-height river crossings.What I want is something adventure touringy, that can also do a bit of off-road. I'd be touring with a passenger too. The GS1200 is top of the list, but reliability does seem to be a concern. I love the Africa Twin, but am not sure whether it would be suited to two up touring. I definitely don't want some super comfy lardy bike, even though that would be the most comfortable.
I really like the idea of a Triumph, but have read that are significantly behind BMW in terms of evolution/development. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 2018 models have changed.
Bob_Defly said:
Good feedback, thanks.
What I want is something adventure touringy, that can also do a bit of off-road. I'd be touring with a passenger too. The GS1200 is top of the list, but reliability does seem to be a concern. I love the Africa Twin, but am not sure whether it would be suited to two up touring. I definitely don't want some super comfy lardy bike, even though that would be the most comfortable.
I really like the idea of a Triumph, but have read that are significantly behind BMW in terms of evolution/development. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 2018 models have changed.
The AT lacks power and comfort for 2-up touring imho.What I want is something adventure touringy, that can also do a bit of off-road. I'd be touring with a passenger too. The GS1200 is top of the list, but reliability does seem to be a concern. I love the Africa Twin, but am not sure whether it would be suited to two up touring. I definitely don't want some super comfy lardy bike, even though that would be the most comfortable.
I really like the idea of a Triumph, but have read that are significantly behind BMW in terms of evolution/development. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 2018 models have changed.
Triumph is where the old air-cooled GS was. But not the latest LC models.
I've toured solo and with Mrs SP around Europe on the GS, and the benefit of the GS compared to other bikes is twofold:
1) for the rider: handling wise the GS is superb 2-up because the CoG is carried so low with the boxer engine. The ESA adapts for 2-up, and the latest versions have auto-self-levelling so no matter how much weight you're carrying, it retains consistent geometry. This makes a huge difference if you want to maintain confidence on hairpins or in mountain passes, even when fully loaded with a passenger and all your luggage.
2) there is loads of space for the rider and passenger to stay comfortable over distance and hours in the saddle. Mrs SP has sat on every comparable adventure touring bike at the NEC and Eicma, and she declared the GS the most comfortable and spacious. Many other couples attest the same, and we have ridden 400 mile days 2-up through Spain and she was both comfortable. Happy wife, happy life!
The GS12 happily goes off-road and firetrails and such like are dispatched with ease. For serious off-roading, the GS12 is plenty capable, but rider training goes a long way to correctly manage it's weight. BMW run the Off Road Skills courses by Simon Pavey et al, and it just proves that people who knock the GS for off road are really just saying they're not very good riders off road!
Reliability? All you have to do is look around Europe and see how many people tour on the GS without problem. Then ask the same question again. And if you do breakdown, BMW Roadside Assistance is the best in the business. There are also more BMW Motorrad dealerships around Europe than most others, and the shiny showroom BMW Motorrad's quality of cappuccinos really is perfect
One of the benefits of being able to leverage the multi-billion $ network of BMW. Compare that to some crap KTM dealer selling second hand 3rd party bikes, and tat from Renthal, Probolt, and Nescafe if you're lucky Don't get me wrong - the BMW GS12 is not perfect. If you had to design a bike from scratch, you would never come up with that design. But it works, in the real world. And if you want to customise it, there are more options of luggage and accessories for touring than _any_ other bike, bar none. Plenty of choice, BMW dealer support, and the biggest network of rider support available. It's a great bike.
Edited by spareparts on Wednesday 1st November 17:29
I’ve got a africa twin, and would say exactly the same as Spareparts, Loaded 2 up it would struggle, absolutely fine on its own, not as quick as the GS, but it’s surprising how much speed you can carry on stty roads, that saying it’s not my only bike and I wouldn’t have brought another new bike unless this deal was on a while ago. I’m very happy with the AT but if it was my only bike and I had to buy a bike for all duties I’d probably be looking at the GS or similar , Just not a multistrada, that was terrible
tty roads, that saying it’s not my only bike and I wouldn’t have brought another new bike unless this deal was on a while ago. I’m very happy with the AT but if it was my only bike and I had to buy a bike for all duties I’d probably be looking at the GS or similar , Just not a multistrada, that was terriblespareparts said:
Reliability? All you have to do is look around Europe and see how many people tour on the GS without problem. Then ask the same question again. And if you do breakdown, BMW Roadside Assistance is the best in the business. There are also more BMW Motorrad dealerships around Europe than most others, and the shiny showroom BMW Motorrad's quality of cappuccinos really is perfect One of the benefits of being able to leverage the multi-billion $ network of BMW. Compare that to some crap KTM dealer selling second hand 3rd party bikes, and tat from Renthal, Probolt, and Nescafe if you're lucky
Was half way across Belgium a few weeks back when I got a hole in the radiator on the XR. Had a rad guard on but whatever hit it was heavy and fast (assume a bolt of some sort). So let's face it that could have happened to many a bike. One of the benefits of being able to leverage the multi-billion $ network of BMW. Compare that to some crap KTM dealer selling second hand 3rd party bikes, and tat from Renthal, Probolt, and Nescafe if you're lucky Edited by spareparts on Wednesday 1st November 17:29
Managed to get to a BMW dealer 20 miles away. As it was just before 4pm they could order a new rad to be delivered first thing next morning. The dealership found and booked me a local hotel and organised a mechanic to come in an hour early the next morning to fit it. Arrived at 8 am and was back on the road 9.30am next morning to catch up with the group.
Talk about fantastic bloody service. Cost me the best part of £600 mind but you won't get that support from any other manufacturer.
Few years back a mate had trouble with his GS in France right at the start of a European tour. Found a BMW dealer who lent him another GS for the trip whilst they fixed his and he picked his own bike up on the way home.
All bikes have issues from time to time but if your bike does let you down my experience says you're better off on a BMW.
Andybow said:
I’ve got a africa twin, and would say exactly the same as Spareparts, Loaded 2 up it would struggle, absolutely fine on its own, not as quick as the GS, but it’s surprising how much speed you can carry on stty roads, that saying it’s not my only bike and I wouldn’t have brought another new bike unless this deal was on a while ago. I’m very happy with the AT but if it was my only bike and I had to buy a bike for all duties I’d probably be looking at the GS or similar , Just not a multistrada, that was terrible
Hi Andy,tty roads, that saying it’s not my only bike and I wouldn’t have brought another new bike unless this deal was on a while ago. I’m very happy with the AT but if it was my only bike and I had to buy a bike for all duties I’d probably be looking at the GS or similar , Just not a multistrada, that was terribleWhich version of the Multi did you try and what did you not like about it?
Harry H said:
spareparts said:
Reliability? All you have to do is look around Europe and see how many people tour on the GS without problem. Then ask the same question again. And if you do breakdown, BMW Roadside Assistance is the best in the business. There are also more BMW Motorrad dealerships around Europe than most others, and the shiny showroom BMW Motorrad's quality of cappuccinos really is perfect One of the benefits of being able to leverage the multi-billion $ network of BMW. Compare that to some crap KTM dealer selling second hand 3rd party bikes, and tat from Renthal, Probolt, and Nescafe if you're lucky
Was half way across Belgium a few weeks back when I got a hole in the radiator on the XR. Had a rad guard on but whatever hit it was heavy and fast (assume a bolt of some sort). So let's face it that could have happened to many a bike. One of the benefits of being able to leverage the multi-billion $ network of BMW. Compare that to some crap KTM dealer selling second hand 3rd party bikes, and tat from Renthal, Probolt, and Nescafe if you're lucky Edited by spareparts on Wednesday 1st November 17:29
Managed to get to a BMW dealer 20 miles away. As it was just before 4pm they could order a new rad to be delivered first thing next morning. The dealership found and booked me a local hotel and organised a mechanic to come in an hour early the next morning to fit it. Arrived at 8 am and was back on the road 9.30am next morning to catch up with the group.
Talk about fantastic bloody service. Cost me the best part of £600 mind but you won't get that support from any other manufacturer.
Few years back a mate had trouble with his GS in France right at the start of a European tour. Found a BMW dealer who lent him another GS for the trip whilst they fixed his and he picked his own bike up on the way home.
All bikes have issues from time to time but if your bike does let you down my experience says you're better off on a BMW.
[quote=spareparts]
hi Ade, in 2014 I brought a new 1200 granturismo, I waited as I wanted Ducati to iron out any probs with any glitches.
Had it for 10 months, in that time I had, 3 new dash’s (£1500) each, because of misting and electronic woes, fork seals went on the front, ecu malfunctioned twice, back brake failed, Electronic suspension locked solid when I was in the Alps.The major problem was Ducati dealership and Ducati UK, couldn’t give a st.
They had the bike on and off for 13 weeks of that 10 months, all of July and August, when I got it back the dash and ecu was still playing up and because of it having riding modes and electronic suspension is was unrideable, felt like a bucking bronco.
I lost over £6k when it came to trade in as no other dealer wanted it and they said the warranties are so expensive for them to get As there is so many problems with Ducati’s, Now I know it’s not every Ducati, But I have a mate who brought the newest model and had similar things happen to his one, All electronics , They are far too complicated.
So for me I wouldn’t have another new Ducati ever again, The whole experience was Crap
hi Ade, in 2014 I brought a new 1200 granturismo, I waited as I wanted Ducati to iron out any probs with any glitches.
Had it for 10 months, in that time I had, 3 new dash’s (£1500) each, because of misting and electronic woes, fork seals went on the front, ecu malfunctioned twice, back brake failed, Electronic suspension locked solid when I was in the Alps.The major problem was Ducati dealership and Ducati UK, couldn’t give a s
t.They had the bike on and off for 13 weeks of that 10 months, all of July and August, when I got it back the dash and ecu was still playing up and because of it having riding modes and electronic suspension is was unrideable, felt like a bucking bronco.
I lost over £6k when it came to trade in as no other dealer wanted it and they said the warranties are so expensive for them to get As there is so many problems with Ducati’s, Now I know it’s not every Ducati, But I have a mate who brought the newest model and had similar things happen to his one, All electronics , They are far too complicated.
So for me I wouldn’t have another new Ducati ever again, The whole experience was Crap
Bob_Defly said:
I keep hearing about reliability being poor on the GS, what other bike would be a good alternative, and one that is totally reliable? (So probably Japanese)
Lots (and lots) of GSes sold. People don't post "my bike has been reliable" very often, but do post about issues.I know loads of people with GSes, who haven't had issues, notably (but subjective) better than KTM or Ducati.
My 2014 GS has been fine over the 20k mile I've done.
Mate of mine had a K1300s that played up a lot. Sold it and didn't want another BMW because of reliability so he bought a Multistrada.
Oh, how we laughed. Mind you he's done 2k miles on it so far without issues. That we know of. If he has had trouble he'd never willing let us know to have another good laugh at his expense.
Oh, how we laughed. Mind you he's done 2k miles on it so far without issues. That we know of. If he has had trouble he'd never willing let us know to have another good laugh at his expense.
spareparts said:
Bob_Defly said:
Good feedback, thanks.
What I want is something adventure touringy, that can also do a bit of off-road. I'd be touring with a passenger too. The GS1200 is top of the list, but reliability does seem to be a concern. I love the Africa Twin, but am not sure whether it would be suited to two up touring. I definitely don't want some super comfy lardy bike, even though that would be the most comfortable.
I really like the idea of a Triumph, but have read that are significantly behind BMW in terms of evolution/development. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 2018 models have changed.
The AT lacks power and comfort for 2-up touring imho.What I want is something adventure touringy, that can also do a bit of off-road. I'd be touring with a passenger too. The GS1200 is top of the list, but reliability does seem to be a concern. I love the Africa Twin, but am not sure whether it would be suited to two up touring. I definitely don't want some super comfy lardy bike, even though that would be the most comfortable.
I really like the idea of a Triumph, but have read that are significantly behind BMW in terms of evolution/development. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 2018 models have changed.
I am 18 stone and my wife is 8/9 stone or something and we have toured full luggaged up on the new Africa Twin. It has been perfect. Also munches miles up with ease and good wind coverage. AT is where my money would be, it was also a bargain.
ETA: You will struggle to find a monster bike that will breeze 2 up touring that will be good offroad. Unless you and your wife have a combined weight of say 30 stone you will be fine on an Africa Twin.
I like the cross tourer as well, but for me it wasn't worth the extra 3k over the AT
Edited by supercommuter on Thursday 2nd November 12:04
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff