RE: First open motorway cameras go live
RE: First open motorway cameras go live
Wednesday 13th April 2005

First open motorway cameras go live

M4 in Wilts to suffer revenue-generating scameras


Keep cameras for road works
Keep cameras for road works
Speed cameras go live today on the M4 in Wiltshire, generating fury in ordinary motorists and representative groups. It's the first time that scameras are to be used on motorways other than for special situations such as road works.

Wiltshire Camera Partnership's (WCP) decision to deploy speed camera vans on the M4 is a clear demonstration of how spurious safety arguments are an excuse to raise money, according to the Association of British Drivers.

"Camera partnerships are locally based organisations," said ABD spokesman Nigel Humphries. "So if they catch too many local people on local roads, they lose the support of their constituents. A motorway is one great big gravy train for them, full of people who don't live in their area, who they can rip off without fear of any local political fallout. It's taxation without representation."

As usual with the camera partnerships, the WCP justifies its actions by quoting the number of accidents that have occurred in a three year period. However, it makes no attempt to explain why these accidents happened, or to demonstrate why slowing people from 85 to 75mph will make a difference.

"In fact, if you ask camera partnerships to release details of what caused the accidents that they are using to justify cameras, they won't tell you", said Humphries. "How can keeping the causes of accidents a secret be consistent with an organisation that's supposed to be about improving safety?"

On a motorway, this scam is more obvious than elsewhere. Anyone can see that accidents on motorways are caused by inattention, tailgating and changing lanes without looking. The more serious ones are caused by the bored and inattentive drivers of speed limited trucks and coaches ploughing into the back of stationary traffic.

The RAC Foundation said speed cameras are "irrelevant" to these accidents -- in fact they make them worse by making drivers switch their cruise controls on and their brains off.

"This pattern of lying about the true causes of accidents to justify cameras is well established, and that's why road deaths are increasing in Britain rather than falling as the camera apologists predicted," said Humphries.

"They work this scam on all roads, but the simplicity of a motorway makes it easier to expose. Camera partnerships have got a built-in financial incentive to indulge themselves in pointless speed enforcement to the detriment of safe, attentive driving, and that's why they should be abolished immediately."

Author
Discussion

scaff

Original Poster:

320 posts

278 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
I live near to this stretch of the M4 (Swindon) and the majority of accidents occuring between these junctions have very little to do with speed.

Anyone living in the area knows that the M4 between Hungerford and Bath suffers from dense fog on most mornings, and the majority of accidents I have been aware of in this area have been caused by poor driver attitude to the fog, i.e. travelling to fast for the conditions.

I do not see how this campaign is going to reduce accidents on this stretch of the M4 in any way.

As I live in Swindon and work in Hungerford, travelling to work by the M4 is now right off my list, I will take the B4192, its a much nicer road and I know where they park the scamera van on this route.

>>> Edited by scaff on Wednesday 13th April 13:35

Raify

6,556 posts

278 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
Imagine if everyone left the motorway at jct 14, took the A-Roads and re-joined at 18.

That might cause chaos....

chimyellow

363 posts

289 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
Raify said:
Imagine if everyone left the motorway at jct 14, took the A-Roads and re-joined at 18.

That might cause chaos....

Maybe someone should put up 'Diversion avoiding Scamera' signs?

TT Tim

4,168 posts

277 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
Can someone please explain this to me. Now I may be reading this incorrectly but it appears that these are MOBILE Scamera vans and that the big deal is that this is the first time that these cameras have been deployed on Motorways that are free off RoadWorks and such like.

So, if this is the case how come we have Scamera vans deployed on the bridges over the M20 on a regular basis? I myself having been caught by lazer gun doing 98mph, back in 2000.

So, what's the news story here?

Before I get flamed, I am not condoning the BiB actions here, far from it, I'm just puzzled as to why this is making headline news.

Tim

chris_crossley

1,164 posts

313 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
Slippery slope mate. The overbridge shots are sneaky and done by the BiB. This is the scamera ripoff sh1t.

Fit the GPS speed tracker to my car and Set up a Direct debit It can't be too far away.

Raify

6,556 posts

278 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
As far as I understand it, the fuss is because the tolerance is being set at 79mph.

Cooperman

4,428 posts

280 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
But 'Dirty Harry' Callaghan's Cumbria Silly Scamera Pratnership have been placing their scam-vans on the M6 bridges, set to trigger at 79 mph, for some time now.

TT Tim

4,168 posts

277 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
What's the penalty for a missing front number plate again?

Oh, and they've got to catch you to get your details. So, how fast can they run from one side of a bridge to the other, if they got me at least I'd have the pleasure in knowing I made the b*****d break sweat!

Time to get a quick release number plate me things

Tim

dougc

8,241 posts

295 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
I think the main issue here is not the scameras themselves or even the set tolerance, just the barefaced cheek of claiming that they are neccessary to reduce accidents. The general concencus from those in the know about this section of road is that it is dangerous but for a multitude of reasons, many of which are much more dangerous (though less profitable) than exceeding the posted limit by 15%. Falling asleep, not altering driving behavoir to suit road/weather conditions, tailgating etc are all big problems yet these issues seem to be being passed over in preference to making a quick buck by WCP. It just a blatent disregard for REAL road safety,

That's what winding me up anyway

Cooperman

4,428 posts

280 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
Copy of my email sent to the Wiltshire Scammers

Dear Sirs,

Well, a fine contribution to cash-collection, sorry, I mean road safety, you are making.
I am a high-mileage driver with over 46 years experience and have held a licence since 1959. This makes me qualified to comment on your nasty little vindictive cash-collection exercise on the M4.
It seems as though you have failed to take on board the fact that only between 5% and 7% of all accidents are caused by vehicles exceeding the speed limit, and even this figure includes speeding drunk drivers, car thieves and emergency vehicles 'on a shout'.
Thus all your efforts are directed at just 5% of accident causation.
Then you have the temerity to place these cash-collection devices on the safest roads in Europe - the Motorway system of England.
No doubt you have been issuing the 'spin' about speed being a major cause of accidents. Maybe 'inappropriate and careless' use of speed is a significant factor, but what is very clear is that the exceeding of the speed limit on motorways in not. In fact, I feel sure that careless driving by HGV's is probably the major factor in Motorway crashes.
The claim that accidents are reduced at camera sites is completely flawed by the 'regression to the mean' phenomenon, which I understand even if you don't.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves for your participation in the 'ripping-off' of safe drivers who are just going about their business.

biggerbigben

72 posts

274 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
WHY...????? Whats the point, people will slow down for the cameras then speed up again, tell me what this has achieved? Other than increasing the likleyhood of another driver crashing into the back of you when you apply the brakes???? Its just another crazy money making idea... !

towman

14,938 posts

269 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
Cooperman said:
In fact, I feel sure that careless driving by HGV's is probably the major factor in Motorway crashes.


Ok up to that bit - your evidence to support this wild accusation please.

Mr Whippy

32,453 posts

271 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
Surely m-way cameras were stopped in the first place because of tailgating and crashes when people slammed on.
Tis these very people who "slam on" as they don't pay attention, that are causing the accidents in the first place. Poor attention!

Seems now, 5 years on, the $ signs in the eyes out-weighs the idea of safety, and they just want MORE money, regardless of the chaos an 80mph column of traffic slowing to 60mph to be sure and then back to 80mph will cause every few miles.

Accidents here we come

Dave

Mad Dave

7,158 posts

293 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
Just an unrelated point - I don't think that official PH news stories should use 'slang' terms such as 'scameras' as it trivialises the argument - IMHO it should be kept factual in this respect. Only my opinion, discard it as you wish

tvrman

359 posts

314 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
This is a bit nuts and I am sure the public feel as us keen motorists do.

If they really wanted to slow people down, all they have to do is dump a wreaked car on the hard shoulder every mile or so. Everytime I see a wreaked car it usually after going at 20mph for a few miles before hand :-)

Surely, these cameras will mean a rise in people cloning cars number plates?





sj78

3,615 posts

261 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
chimyellow said:

Raify said:
Imagine if everyone left the motorway at jct 14, took the A-Roads and re-joined at 18.

That might cause chaos....


Maybe someone should put up 'Diversion avoiding Scamera' signs?


Hmm - they tried that on this stretch at the start of February when they shut the stretch between J15 (Swindon A419) and J16 (Swindon West) on a Saturday morning and diverted everyone around the centre of Swindon - added another hour and a half to our journey and brought the centre of town to a standstill

catretriever

2,090 posts

272 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
TT Tim said:
What's the penalty for a missing front number plate again?


Does anyone know this?

Flat in Fifth

48,786 posts

281 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
But compare the statements from Wilts etc Scammers with the Eurorap road assessment programme which analyses collisions.

The M4 throughout that section is classed as "Low risk (safest) roads."

So it's just about the money then.

aston67

872 posts

260 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
Question

what does it take to close for good these Scamera partnerships? Legally, I mean.

mjdriver

40 posts

261 months

Wednesday 13th April 2005
quotequote all
This makes me sooo mad!!

Why don't WCP do something about, uninsured drivers, drunk drivers, drivers on drugs or just plain incompetence on the roads....


Because it requires effort and doesn't generate any revenue..

Is it not about time victimised british motorists took direct action. I'm making my banner now