Discussion
The majority of my friends work very hard.
Long hours, pressure, commutes and the usual. Few have children.
I can’t understand why they do it. It’s almost as if it’s a competition as to who can earn the most regardless of quality of life. Almost like they brag about how early they get up, how far the commute is etc
All so that they can have a better car, bigger house or better holiday for 2 Weeks of the year.
But some are out of shape, ageing prematurely and are too tired at night to do anything and don’t have time to enjoy their nice home or car etc
Why is it that most people don’t just start working less when they can, don’t load up with a big mortgage and so on????
Is it really competition and bragging rights?
(I was playing footy today and a guy who I don’t really know all too well other than from playing footy with just started bragging about his wife’s earnings, what he earns and so on whilst also bragging how hard he works and how tired he is)
Is this human nature?
Long hours, pressure, commutes and the usual. Few have children.
I can’t understand why they do it. It’s almost as if it’s a competition as to who can earn the most regardless of quality of life. Almost like they brag about how early they get up, how far the commute is etc
All so that they can have a better car, bigger house or better holiday for 2 Weeks of the year.
But some are out of shape, ageing prematurely and are too tired at night to do anything and don’t have time to enjoy their nice home or car etc
Why is it that most people don’t just start working less when they can, don’t load up with a big mortgage and so on????
Is it really competition and bragging rights?
(I was playing footy today and a guy who I don’t really know all too well other than from playing footy with just started bragging about his wife’s earnings, what he earns and so on whilst also bragging how hard he works and how tired he is)
Is this human nature?
Me and the wife get by quite nicely with me working approx 6 mths of the year and her with her p/t ta job at our local school.No mortgage means less needs to be earned but we still have enough over after bills to have a couple of holidays a year and thats all i want from life...I bought her a new car recently that i hope last many years and with my old trusty car im happy.
Im nearly 50 yrs and i have no idea where those years went....so its all about time for me,great wife and grown up kids equals a lucky man in my eyes..
Im nearly 50 yrs and i have no idea where those years went....so its all about time for me,great wife and grown up kids equals a lucky man in my eyes..
Time for me also. I've accepted I'm not going to be rich and I'll never have the Ferrari etc in the drive but I'm totally content with that.
I work a max of 35 hours a week could do more but I won't as family time is worth much more to me. Stress free job as well is also important to me, never take work home under any circumstances. Never been happier.
On your death bed you'll think "I wish I spent more time at work" as the old cliché says.
I work a max of 35 hours a week could do more but I won't as family time is worth much more to me. Stress free job as well is also important to me, never take work home under any circumstances. Never been happier.
On your death bed you'll think "I wish I spent more time at work" as the old cliché says.
Well you can only speak in general terms as not everybody fits but men tend to be defined by their work and women tend to be defined by families. At least that was the case until third wave feminism got a grip anyway, although I suspect many women are happy with that status quo.
Preference theory describes that 4 out of 7 men are very work orientated, whilst only 1 out of 7 women are. This goes a way to explaining the life long earnings gap between the two genders.
So it comes down to men being valued by women for their utility value, many men therefore work hard and long hours, not only to bring in the money but because there is a social pressure (and a wife pressure!) on them to do so. Apparently.
Other theories exist of course!
Edited to add I’m in the happy position where I don’t have to work and for me I make the most of that. However, my wife believes I should be back at work, full time and occasionally brings up various positions that I should apply for. Utility value I guess or Of course she might just not like my company!
Preference theory describes that 4 out of 7 men are very work orientated, whilst only 1 out of 7 women are. This goes a way to explaining the life long earnings gap between the two genders.
So it comes down to men being valued by women for their utility value, many men therefore work hard and long hours, not only to bring in the money but because there is a social pressure (and a wife pressure!) on them to do so. Apparently.
Other theories exist of course!
Edited to add I’m in the happy position where I don’t have to work and for me I make the most of that. However, my wife believes I should be back at work, full time and occasionally brings up various positions that I should apply for. Utility value I guess or Of course she might just not like my company!
Edited by steveatesh on Sunday 5th November 18:37
An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.
The Mexican replied, “only a little while. The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs. The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”
The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.” The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”
The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”
To which the American replied, “15 – 20 years.”
“But what then?” Asked the Mexican.
The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!”
“Millions – then what?”
The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
The Mexican replied, “only a little while. The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs. The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”
The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.” The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”
The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”
To which the American replied, “15 – 20 years.”
“But what then?” Asked the Mexican.
The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!”
“Millions – then what?”
The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
t. Interesting on here most people are saying time but in the real world I see the opposite
I find it very interesting and intriguing
I just find life a bit weird like that
Another bloke was telling me today how he doesn’t like his wife and being rude about her and I just couldn’t figure it out.
Almost like society brainwashes people to work hard at school (not sure why being good at gcse German or classical studies means you will eventually excel in your chosen career) and then go to uni to study harder and get into debt. Then you get an employed job and move away from friends and work hard and get a mortgage and more debt and then spend your 20s/30s/40s and 50s paying down your debt so that you can ultimately relax and spend some more time abroad in the sunshine when you’re in your 60s and 70s and go travelling
Why not simply go travelling and live your life making ends meet in bar jobs and meeting people and getting by all your life.
I suppose it’s maybe kids which I don’t have that make a lot of men put up with their wife, commute, boss and pressure etc but wouldn’t their child be happier waking up each day in Tenerife and cycling to school and then playing football at the beach all of which costs nothing
In other words what I’m trying to say in a long winded fashion is I think the quality of life of a taxi driver or bus driver in Tenerife is far higher than that of a ‘business development manager’ on £60k per year plus company Passat.
I find it very interesting and intriguing
I just find life a bit weird like that
Another bloke was telling me today how he doesn’t like his wife and being rude about her and I just couldn’t figure it out.
Almost like society brainwashes people to work hard at school (not sure why being good at gcse German or classical studies means you will eventually excel in your chosen career) and then go to uni to study harder and get into debt. Then you get an employed job and move away from friends and work hard and get a mortgage and more debt and then spend your 20s/30s/40s and 50s paying down your debt so that you can ultimately relax and spend some more time abroad in the sunshine when you’re in your 60s and 70s and go travelling
Why not simply go travelling and live your life making ends meet in bar jobs and meeting people and getting by all your life.
I suppose it’s maybe kids which I don’t have that make a lot of men put up with their wife, commute, boss and pressure etc but wouldn’t their child be happier waking up each day in Tenerife and cycling to school and then playing football at the beach all of which costs nothing
In other words what I’m trying to say in a long winded fashion is I think the quality of life of a taxi driver or bus driver in Tenerife is far higher than that of a ‘business development manager’ on £60k per year plus company Passat.
jonah35 said:
Interesting on here most people are saying time but in the real world I see the opposite
I find it very interesting and intriguing
I just find life a bit weird like that
Another bloke was telling me today how he doesn’t like his wife and being rude about her and I just couldn’t figure it out.
Almost like society brainwashes people to work hard at school (not sure why being good at gcse German or classical studies means you will eventually excel in your chosen career) and then go to uni to study harder and get into debt. Then you get an employed job and move away from friends and work hard and get a mortgage and more debt and then spend your 20s/30s/40s and 50s paying down your debt so that you can ultimately relax and spend some more time abroad in the sunshine when you’re in your 60s and 70s and go travelling
Why not simply go travelling and live your life making ends meet in bar jobs and meeting people and getting by all your life.
I suppose it’s maybe kids which I don’t have that make a lot of men put up with their wife, commute, boss and pressure etc but wouldn’t their child be happier waking up each day in Tenerife and cycling to school and then playing football at the beach all of which costs nothing
In other words what I’m trying to say in a long winded fashion is I think the quality of life of a taxi driver or bus driver in Tenerife is far higher than that of a ‘business development manager’ on £60k per year plus company Passat.
Absolutely 100% with you on that, Jonathan I find it very interesting and intriguing
I just find life a bit weird like that
Another bloke was telling me today how he doesn’t like his wife and being rude about her and I just couldn’t figure it out.
Almost like society brainwashes people to work hard at school (not sure why being good at gcse German or classical studies means you will eventually excel in your chosen career) and then go to uni to study harder and get into debt. Then you get an employed job and move away from friends and work hard and get a mortgage and more debt and then spend your 20s/30s/40s and 50s paying down your debt so that you can ultimately relax and spend some more time abroad in the sunshine when you’re in your 60s and 70s and go travelling
Why not simply go travelling and live your life making ends meet in bar jobs and meeting people and getting by all your life.
I suppose it’s maybe kids which I don’t have that make a lot of men put up with their wife, commute, boss and pressure etc but wouldn’t their child be happier waking up each day in Tenerife and cycling to school and then playing football at the beach all of which costs nothing
In other words what I’m trying to say in a long winded fashion is I think the quality of life of a taxi driver or bus driver in Tenerife is far higher than that of a ‘business development manager’ on £60k per year plus company Passat.
The Mexican fisherman is the winner.
I’ll say time but I’m in a very fortunate position of only working 30 hours per week for a decent salary, my fiancée works in the same job so between us we have it better than most. If I were on a broadly average wage like my parents were when I was growing up no doubt I’d do what they did and work overtime to give us the leg up in life that has lead to us doing well.
You’re spot on though, society teaches us to want stuff we don’t need and to work harder than we truly need to. We live in a capitalist society that relies on us working hard and consuming.
You’re spot on though, society teaches us to want stuff we don’t need and to work harder than we truly need to. We live in a capitalist society that relies on us working hard and consuming.
It is human nature to some extent. Who wouldn't want "more" or "better"?
But some people have a lifestyle, or a change in lifestyle, that changes things.
I've always earned pretty well for my age. Not "PH company director" level, but comfortable enough living within the M25.
I've just accepted a job offering a fair (to me) pay cut in exchange for more time at home with the family. I'll have to tighten my belt a little but I realise I can't ever get this time with my kids back, so it's worth it.
Don't see it as a negative that some people are so work/money focussed, Everyone is different.
But some people have a lifestyle, or a change in lifestyle, that changes things.
I've always earned pretty well for my age. Not "PH company director" level, but comfortable enough living within the M25.
I've just accepted a job offering a fair (to me) pay cut in exchange for more time at home with the family. I'll have to tighten my belt a little but I realise I can't ever get this time with my kids back, so it's worth it.
Don't see it as a negative that some people are so work/money focussed, Everyone is different.
I'm still a few years off 30 but have focused primarily on my career rather than relationships/family/settling down etc. I'm single but enjoy my lifestyle and have a few hard-earned perks too.
My reasoning for putting the career first at this stage of my life is that I want to be able to work hard now to become a senior member of staff as soon as I can, and then hit cruise control and live life at a balanced level. No more 24/7 on-call, no more travelling on 45 minutes notice, but a steady 9-5 that pays enough for me to have a few kids, keep my automotive hobby going, and comfortably afford to indulge whatever interests my children may have.
I see some guys at work who are 50+ and struggling to make ends meet now their kids are going to uni, purely because they took it easy in their 30s and burned through their savings in the last decade. I would rather work hard now while my mind and body is at its peak, and then when I'm a little older, enjoy the fruits of my labour.
My reasoning for putting the career first at this stage of my life is that I want to be able to work hard now to become a senior member of staff as soon as I can, and then hit cruise control and live life at a balanced level. No more 24/7 on-call, no more travelling on 45 minutes notice, but a steady 9-5 that pays enough for me to have a few kids, keep my automotive hobby going, and comfortably afford to indulge whatever interests my children may have.
I see some guys at work who are 50+ and struggling to make ends meet now their kids are going to uni, purely because they took it easy in their 30s and burned through their savings in the last decade. I would rather work hard now while my mind and body is at its peak, and then when I'm a little older, enjoy the fruits of my labour.
I did the work route, MD at 30, group CEO at 40, worked all over the world, last 20 years as a consultant in the oil industry, 65 in 3 weeks. just signed a new contract. I have a nice house on the beach in the tropics, and I hate it there, boring as hell, and I detest going to the pub for lunch with the retired guys. I live in my apartment in the city. can't think of much I've missed in the family life, there for the kids, all of whom went to good schools and finished university without loans, and I was able to help get on the housing ladder. I was lucky in that I was home when they were pre school, but from age 8 onwards I worked away a lot.
I could live Ok on money saved, but I couldn't run my race car, or go for extended holidays, I actually enjoy the stress of work and people seeking/respecting my opinion, and that's the important bit. do you have a job you enjoy, that isn't so hard it is killing you, my Dad was a coal miner, no way he could have worked at 65, and if he had been able to retire earlier then he may have lived longer, you have to decide for yourself based on your own experience.
I could live Ok on money saved, but I couldn't run my race car, or go for extended holidays, I actually enjoy the stress of work and people seeking/respecting my opinion, and that's the important bit. do you have a job you enjoy, that isn't so hard it is killing you, my Dad was a coal miner, no way he could have worked at 65, and if he had been able to retire earlier then he may have lived longer, you have to decide for yourself based on your own experience.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
sc0tt said:
You can earn money but you cannot buy time.
But you can earn enough money early on to enjoy your time better later. Effort now to enjoy it later.
Wouldn't the country be more screwed up if nobody wanted to earn lots of money?
swerni said:
Why is the debate always binary ?
Exactly! The ideal is a bit of both, as long as you can enjoy the work bit. Personally, I find life is better when you have a purpose, a reason to get up in the morning. Taken me decades to realise that the trick is in the ability to say 'no'. This means you've got to the point where you can choose what you do, where you do it, and how long you do it for. It's then about managing the balance. Trouble is many don`t make it to enjoy their later life...
I`m just back from a long walk with my dog thru the local woods and while on my way back see those early starters scraping icy windows,i`m now back indoors with a hot cup of coffee watching the local news showing that the blackwall tunnel is at standstill again.
As i said i do need to work so i don`t have to dig into savings to enjoy life but time is what i care about...
I`m just back from a long walk with my dog thru the local woods and while on my way back see those early starters scraping icy windows,i`m now back indoors with a hot cup of coffee watching the local news showing that the blackwall tunnel is at standstill again.
As i said i do need to work so i don`t have to dig into savings to enjoy life but time is what i care about...
Due to understaffing at work, many of us are expected to work overtime to cover the gaps. Going from 42hr weeks to 54hrs really makes a big dint in your free time. The extra money is nice for doing this for a couple of months, but when you're several months in then it starts becoming a real point of contention.
There's a balance.
There's a balance.
it's all about finding a balance. I could have easily had a house in a better area (tho mine is ok, and easy commute to the city) but that would have meant a bigger mortgage. I didn't want that.
I've had nice cars but now drive a 4yr old Polo. I raced cars back in the day too
I could have done considerably better in my career, but i did quite well. However I would say, in hindsight, I should have pushed a bit more just so I got more money earlier and stashed it With a view to getting out even earlier. For example, if you get 100k live like you "only" get 60k
It all worked out ok. I'm 55 stopped working three years ago and only contracted here and there for previous ten years. I'm not loaded, but I have enough.
It's Monday morning, I'm off to play tennis and no doubt if I'd got there a bit earlier I would have bumped into one of my mates in his carrera4 on his way to work after an early gym session, then back to his house in a nicer area come 8pm.
As mentioned in a previous thread, I may clear off to my place in Portugal in the next year or two which was paid for by the long term tenant and me not having the latest iPhone etc.,
Balance....
I've had nice cars but now drive a 4yr old Polo. I raced cars back in the day too
I could have done considerably better in my career, but i did quite well. However I would say, in hindsight, I should have pushed a bit more just so I got more money earlier and stashed it With a view to getting out even earlier. For example, if you get 100k live like you "only" get 60k
It all worked out ok. I'm 55 stopped working three years ago and only contracted here and there for previous ten years. I'm not loaded, but I have enough.
It's Monday morning, I'm off to play tennis and no doubt if I'd got there a bit earlier I would have bumped into one of my mates in his carrera4 on his way to work after an early gym session, then back to his house in a nicer area come 8pm.
As mentioned in a previous thread, I may clear off to my place in Portugal in the next year or two which was paid for by the long term tenant and me not having the latest iPhone etc.,
Balance....
456mgt said:
swerni said:
Why is the debate always binary ?
Exactly! The ideal is a bit of both, as long as you can enjoy the work bit. Personally, I find life is better when you have a purpose, a reason to get up in the morning. Taken me decades to realise that the trick is in the ability to say 'no'. This means you've got to the point where you can choose what you do, where you do it, and how long you do it for. It's then about managing the balance. I was only really going from my own recent experience. 2 years ago I was working for someone else on a relatively decent amount of money with my wife doing the same, we live in a pleasant house, drive decent enough cars, can afford to go for meals out and have the holidays each year. The job was flexible, work from home when needed, go to the gym, play the tennis during the day, be home handy etc. It would have been 'pleasant' to carry on doing that right up until retirement age where it would continue to be 'pleasant'.
Last 2 years I've had less money, more stress, less holidays, less gym and tennis during the day and less free time. Even working weekends which was previously unheard of. I started my own business with the view that if I push myself harder than I was then we'll be a bit more comfortable than 'pleasant' with the time frame being 10 years (turning 40) and so far it's showing signs it might just do that with the wife looking at leaving work at Christmas.
So I don't see it as binary as such, just turning the flat line graph that was life into something a bit more interesting in the future and getting out of the comfort zone we were in.
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