Hearing damage
Discussion
Hi all.
Little bit of background. I am a professional (classical) musician; I earn my living mostly from orchestral playing.
On Saturday I was playing a particular concert with a 90 minute piece which is loud in places. I had my earplugs with me (Alpine Music Safe Pro) as I was sat directly in front of the percussion section. I was fairly loud in places but nothing excessive. I don't remember whether I used my earplugs much but I marked up a few places in the part where I would in the concert. Didn't have any issues after the rehearsal and didn't give it a second thought.
During the concert it seemed so much louder. There was a specific moment in the first movement with a tam tam (gong) crash - about 4-5 feet behind me and I flat knew at that point there was some damage; I could feel it. I spent most of the rest of the concert fumbling with my earplugs, had them in for most of the bad moments but there were some points where I was playing and I just couldn't get them in, or one point when I couldn't get the bloody things in and one fell out.
Since then I have really been struggling. My left ear particularly feels muffled, there is a slight high pitched whine, and it (my left ear) feels "full". I have had the odd bit of pain and dizziness so I went to see the doctor yesterday - he was really good but said he couldn't see anything, no perforations, etc. but as it was early days he couldn't refer me to an ENT specialist. He implied things might improve over the next few weeks and I should come back if it was still an issue in a few weeks for a referral - but what an ENT specialist could do I am not sure. I spoke to an audiologist friend who said it might improve but it was likely some permanent damage was done. When I swallow or yawn I can hear some movement in both ears. I hope this is good.
Basically my biggest fear is that that is that. I have had ringing in my ears before after being in loud cars or loud rock concerts etc., but it has always subsided after a few days. It is now 5 days on and I have not noticed any real improvement. I am careful with my ears generally - I have a pair of foam earplugs in my wallet, I often wear plugs while playing, always at loud gigs, and always when I had my TVR. I wore them for a fair chunk of the concert in question. If it subsides in a few days, weeks, months even, then I can cope. But I am terrified that it's not going to get any better and I am going to have to live with it. I know it sounds melodramatic and in the grand scheme of things it could be worse, but it's what I do and what I love, and I already feel I can't do my job properly. I feel like I've been on the verge of a panic attack a couple of times, I can't think about anything else.
I have signed up for the MU Hearing Scheme (decent fitted earplugs for a cut price - closing the stable door after the horse has bolted), and I'm going to see an audiologist when I can. Also looking at some of the active earplugs online at the moment. Money no object. I swear if I come out the other side of this if I end up in a situation like that again I would walk off stage.
I'm not sure why I'm writing this. Does anybody have any experience of this, either from a personal experience point of view or a medical standpoint? I suppose I'm looking (hoping) for some sort of assurance that things will get better or at least improve to a certain extent. Or suggestions as to what to do if anything (audiologist, ENT?) I'm a mess at the moment. I would give anything, ANYTHING to go back in time and I would walk off that stage in a heartbeat. Don't f
k about with your hearing.
Little bit of background. I am a professional (classical) musician; I earn my living mostly from orchestral playing.
On Saturday I was playing a particular concert with a 90 minute piece which is loud in places. I had my earplugs with me (Alpine Music Safe Pro) as I was sat directly in front of the percussion section. I was fairly loud in places but nothing excessive. I don't remember whether I used my earplugs much but I marked up a few places in the part where I would in the concert. Didn't have any issues after the rehearsal and didn't give it a second thought.
During the concert it seemed so much louder. There was a specific moment in the first movement with a tam tam (gong) crash - about 4-5 feet behind me and I flat knew at that point there was some damage; I could feel it. I spent most of the rest of the concert fumbling with my earplugs, had them in for most of the bad moments but there were some points where I was playing and I just couldn't get them in, or one point when I couldn't get the bloody things in and one fell out.
Since then I have really been struggling. My left ear particularly feels muffled, there is a slight high pitched whine, and it (my left ear) feels "full". I have had the odd bit of pain and dizziness so I went to see the doctor yesterday - he was really good but said he couldn't see anything, no perforations, etc. but as it was early days he couldn't refer me to an ENT specialist. He implied things might improve over the next few weeks and I should come back if it was still an issue in a few weeks for a referral - but what an ENT specialist could do I am not sure. I spoke to an audiologist friend who said it might improve but it was likely some permanent damage was done. When I swallow or yawn I can hear some movement in both ears. I hope this is good.
Basically my biggest fear is that that is that. I have had ringing in my ears before after being in loud cars or loud rock concerts etc., but it has always subsided after a few days. It is now 5 days on and I have not noticed any real improvement. I am careful with my ears generally - I have a pair of foam earplugs in my wallet, I often wear plugs while playing, always at loud gigs, and always when I had my TVR. I wore them for a fair chunk of the concert in question. If it subsides in a few days, weeks, months even, then I can cope. But I am terrified that it's not going to get any better and I am going to have to live with it. I know it sounds melodramatic and in the grand scheme of things it could be worse, but it's what I do and what I love, and I already feel I can't do my job properly. I feel like I've been on the verge of a panic attack a couple of times, I can't think about anything else.
I have signed up for the MU Hearing Scheme (decent fitted earplugs for a cut price - closing the stable door after the horse has bolted), and I'm going to see an audiologist when I can. Also looking at some of the active earplugs online at the moment. Money no object. I swear if I come out the other side of this if I end up in a situation like that again I would walk off stage.
I'm not sure why I'm writing this. Does anybody have any experience of this, either from a personal experience point of view or a medical standpoint? I suppose I'm looking (hoping) for some sort of assurance that things will get better or at least improve to a certain extent. Or suggestions as to what to do if anything (audiologist, ENT?) I'm a mess at the moment. I would give anything, ANYTHING to go back in time and I would walk off that stage in a heartbeat. Don't f
k about with your hearing.I spent 20 years of fast motorcycle riding and loud rock concerts with no hearing protection. Tinnitus had started in my late teens, and I did not exactly do a lot to prevent it getting worse, but way back then nobody really understood much about it.
I know my ears go ‘dull’ if ever I go to a loud club or bar nowadays and take several days to recover.
The loud ringing, waves crashing, bells ringing and starlings fluttering by the thousand never goes away though. In a totally silent place it is so loud it is deafening, oppressive, scary even.
Unfortunately your ears cannot repair themselves, once the serious damage is done. The bruising can go away, which is what happens after a loud night, but there is always some scarring that stays.
I know my ears go ‘dull’ if ever I go to a loud club or bar nowadays and take several days to recover.
The loud ringing, waves crashing, bells ringing and starlings fluttering by the thousand never goes away though. In a totally silent place it is so loud it is deafening, oppressive, scary even.
Unfortunately your ears cannot repair themselves, once the serious damage is done. The bruising can go away, which is what happens after a loud night, but there is always some scarring that stays.
My sis and her husband play professionally in a similar environment to you, and I know it worries them.
from my own experience, I went totally deaf after a headset malfunction in the car. I was terrified. Literally couldn't hear anything. My hearing gradually came back over a couple of weeks (or maybe more, I don't quite remember). Subsequent tests have shown permanent damage to the hearing in one ear (lost the lower registers), and I have tinnitus. However I don't really notice anymore - your brain is very good at compensating. I don't know what impact it would have if I was a professional musician like you, but I think it would be ok. In short - it can take a while to come back and settle down so don't panic yet. I would also wait before seeing the audiologist to allow it a chance to settle.
from my own experience, I went totally deaf after a headset malfunction in the car. I was terrified. Literally couldn't hear anything. My hearing gradually came back over a couple of weeks (or maybe more, I don't quite remember). Subsequent tests have shown permanent damage to the hearing in one ear (lost the lower registers), and I have tinnitus. However I don't really notice anymore - your brain is very good at compensating. I don't know what impact it would have if I was a professional musician like you, but I think it would be ok. In short - it can take a while to come back and settle down so don't panic yet. I would also wait before seeing the audiologist to allow it a chance to settle.
I think hearing is one of those things that most people overlook until it's too late but 'too late' is a bit of a vague term,
I'm a part-time mobile DJ and have spent many a night behind a DJ booth so whilst most of the sound is projected forward of where I am, it still hits you in the chest - which I like - which is part of the problem.
At 50, I've started to notice that my hearing is not as sharp as it was. I'm finding some TV a little difficult to hear speech against other noise (Commentary on F1 for example, or dialogue over background music). It's far from a major issue but enough to be noticeable and will be wearing plugs for the first time for my next gig in a few weeks.
OP: I hope you get it sorted. For me, it's an annoyance but I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like as a professional musician.
I'm a part-time mobile DJ and have spent many a night behind a DJ booth so whilst most of the sound is projected forward of where I am, it still hits you in the chest - which I like - which is part of the problem.
At 50, I've started to notice that my hearing is not as sharp as it was. I'm finding some TV a little difficult to hear speech against other noise (Commentary on F1 for example, or dialogue over background music). It's far from a major issue but enough to be noticeable and will be wearing plugs for the first time for my next gig in a few weeks.
OP: I hope you get it sorted. For me, it's an annoyance but I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like as a professional musician.
I find following conversation when there is background noise almost impossible. Much of my mid range hearing has gone.
For years I sat in an ‘office’ on a ship that was essentially a small cubicle next to a big air con unit. It didn’t seem particularly loud, but after about 8 years in that job a guy went around my ship with a decibel meter, and found my work environment was far from acceptable with noise level.
Apparently, if you have to raise your voice even slightly, to converse over a noise, that noise is damaging your hearing. It is exposure time, not volume, that does the real damage.
For years I sat in an ‘office’ on a ship that was essentially a small cubicle next to a big air con unit. It didn’t seem particularly loud, but after about 8 years in that job a guy went around my ship with a decibel meter, and found my work environment was far from acceptable with noise level.
Apparently, if you have to raise your voice even slightly, to converse over a noise, that noise is damaging your hearing. It is exposure time, not volume, that does the real damage.
Thanks chaps.
Exposure time was relatively short - the piece in its entirety was only 1h30 tops. Much of it was fine, but there were some exceptionally loud bits. Some of these I had my plugs in for - hopefully they were attenuating it enough (it certainly didn't sound loud or hurt, although I could "feel" the sounds). but there were bits where it was very loud without plugs. Few of these would have been for more than a few seconds so I am hoping that my ears will recover, although I am sure if the sound is sufficiently loud the amount of time taken for damage is much less.
People keep saying to me "it's only been a few days" but the longer it goes without noticeable improvement the more scared I get.
Exposure time was relatively short - the piece in its entirety was only 1h30 tops. Much of it was fine, but there were some exceptionally loud bits. Some of these I had my plugs in for - hopefully they were attenuating it enough (it certainly didn't sound loud or hurt, although I could "feel" the sounds). but there were bits where it was very loud without plugs. Few of these would have been for more than a few seconds so I am hoping that my ears will recover, although I am sure if the sound is sufficiently loud the amount of time taken for damage is much less.
People keep saying to me "it's only been a few days" but the longer it goes without noticeable improvement the more scared I get.
"going to see an audiologist when I can"
their testing will outline the current position and then tell when you might see an improvement if indicated.
It's very scientific https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiometry
their testing will outline the current position and then tell when you might see an improvement if indicated.
It's very scientific https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiometry
I'm the wrong type of doctor to have any professional expertise in this, but in my 'other' career as a DJ in bars and clubs of all sizes I have some experience I can share.
A good number of years ago, I would occasionally start to notice tinnitus-like ringing in my ears, particularly my left, often after some unintentionally loud exposure. It would be particularly noticeable in very quiet environments but I could manipulate how deaf I felt by wiggling my ear, moving my jaw about, swallowing etc. Had it checked and it turned out that I have a higher than normal level of production of ear wax and it would get shifted about inside my ear by sound and using musicians' earplugs.
If I understood the explanation correctly, this is what would cause the deafness, and the tinnitus-like ringing was apparently due to the wax sticking minute hairs to the important bits of my ear (I think by changing how the ear responds to the sound waves, a bit like fingers on a vibrating string or drum). I'd be interested to know if that is vaguely correct!
All I know is that one cycle of sorting my ear wax out with drops later, and the ringing and deafness was all completely gone. It happened to a lesser extent a couple of times subsequently and as I've noticed it starting I've done another cycle of ear wax removal (just drops again) and it returns to normal.
I my case I think it is possibly a combination of the ear wax issue being exacerbated by loud exposure and earplugs, as it now has happened to a lesser extent (in fact right now!) since I stopped DJing about 18 months ago.
I hope it is something similar to this for you.
A good number of years ago, I would occasionally start to notice tinnitus-like ringing in my ears, particularly my left, often after some unintentionally loud exposure. It would be particularly noticeable in very quiet environments but I could manipulate how deaf I felt by wiggling my ear, moving my jaw about, swallowing etc. Had it checked and it turned out that I have a higher than normal level of production of ear wax and it would get shifted about inside my ear by sound and using musicians' earplugs.
If I understood the explanation correctly, this is what would cause the deafness, and the tinnitus-like ringing was apparently due to the wax sticking minute hairs to the important bits of my ear (I think by changing how the ear responds to the sound waves, a bit like fingers on a vibrating string or drum). I'd be interested to know if that is vaguely correct!
All I know is that one cycle of sorting my ear wax out with drops later, and the ringing and deafness was all completely gone. It happened to a lesser extent a couple of times subsequently and as I've noticed it starting I've done another cycle of ear wax removal (just drops again) and it returns to normal.
I my case I think it is possibly a combination of the ear wax issue being exacerbated by loud exposure and earplugs, as it now has happened to a lesser extent (in fact right now!) since I stopped DJing about 18 months ago.
I hope it is something similar to this for you.
Edited by Dr Slotter on Friday 17th November 18:16
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I don't think that is it - one of the things the doctor said on Wednesday was that my ears were clean and there was very little wax buildup.
I am becoming slightly worried about my state of mind I must admit, I am having really low moments, and I am worrying about leaning too much on those around me. Also struggling to sleep, woke up this morning at about 10 to 5 and just cannot stop thinking about or get back to sleep.
It just feels like a nightmare from which I can't wake up.
I am becoming slightly worried about my state of mind I must admit, I am having really low moments, and I am worrying about leaning too much on those around me. Also struggling to sleep, woke up this morning at about 10 to 5 and just cannot stop thinking about or get back to sleep.
It just feels like a nightmare from which I can't wake up.
NiceCoT, timely post for us. Husband is talking of the same thing at the moment, he's definitely no musician but racing historics doesn't exactly help. If anyone on here is a aural specialist, or knows one where we can have a consultation, would be much appreciated. It's got worse this week after Daytona - most historic races don't have radio so normal moulded earplugs are used, this weekend, the distance from the pits meant radio was acceptable so he used crappy foam plugs and radio instead. Probably not the best move. I guess the upside is he doesn't hear me nagging 
Sorry you've got the same issue, not good. When Rich turns round and says he might have to give up certain drives, he's probably more worried than he's letting on. I hope you get yourself sorted and, if you find someone good, do pass it on!!
Emma
Sorry you've got the same issue, not good. When Rich turns round and says he might have to give up certain drives, he's probably more worried than he's letting on. I hope you get yourself sorted and, if you find someone good, do pass it on!!
Emma
I sent this as part of a PM to but depending on where you live its worth seeing someone about it. I'm a trainee ENT surgeon. He should definitely have a baseline hearing test. London wise there are plenty of good Otologists around with those at the London Clinic being some of the best.
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