Discussion
Because the 435d will be a straight line tool and only comes with a zf box and AWD. It isn't a sports car, more of a grand tourer.
An M4 is far more special thing to drive. It is more interesting, it isn't just a straight line tool and for all its flaws, is going to be far more fun. It looks better, sounds better and can be had with an enthusiast's gearbox.
0-60 tells you little about how much fun a car is going to be. I would choose a RWD manual 440i before a 435d, mapped or not.
If the standing drag race is really that important to you though, map the M4?
An M4 is far more special thing to drive. It is more interesting, it isn't just a straight line tool and for all its flaws, is going to be far more fun. It looks better, sounds better and can be had with an enthusiast's gearbox.
0-60 tells you little about how much fun a car is going to be. I would choose a RWD manual 440i before a 435d, mapped or not.
If the standing drag race is really that important to you though, map the M4?
Edited by Mike335i on Saturday 18th November 07:46
This is a useful site for performance comparison beyond simple 0-60 times:
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match4935-5216.htm
The 435d is an amazing car, with 4wd and huge torque it will be one of the quickest 'a-b' cars on the road and return decent MPG. On a dark wet winters night it is the sort of thing you want to have to get you safely home.
The M4 in contrast is less safe, with higher power via less driven wheels. It won't feel much quicker if you drive it 'like a diesel' with low revs. In fact you will only get what you paid for on the rare occasions where you can let it rip to the redline and pretty soon someone else will be in your way or speed limits will become an issue. It will be more expensive to run, in fuel, brakes etc. but perhaps not tyres.
But ... the every journey in the M4 will be an event. It will be a talking point wherever you go. The noise will be inspiring and the feeling, when you hook the power up right or corner on a dry summer road will be epic. You pay a price for that, but for many, it is one worth paying. it's the sort of thing most people grow out of, but not all.
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match4935-5216.htm
The 435d is an amazing car, with 4wd and huge torque it will be one of the quickest 'a-b' cars on the road and return decent MPG. On a dark wet winters night it is the sort of thing you want to have to get you safely home.
The M4 in contrast is less safe, with higher power via less driven wheels. It won't feel much quicker if you drive it 'like a diesel' with low revs. In fact you will only get what you paid for on the rare occasions where you can let it rip to the redline and pretty soon someone else will be in your way or speed limits will become an issue. It will be more expensive to run, in fuel, brakes etc. but perhaps not tyres.
But ... the every journey in the M4 will be an event. It will be a talking point wherever you go. The noise will be inspiring and the feeling, when you hook the power up right or corner on a dry summer road will be epic. You pay a price for that, but for many, it is one worth paying. it's the sort of thing most people grow out of, but not all.
Edited by Elysium on Saturday 18th November 08:21
Elysium said:
This is a useful site for performance comparison beyond simple 0-60 times:
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match4935-5216.htm
The 435d is an amazing car, with 4wd and huge torque it will be one of the quickest 'a-b' cars on the road and return decent MPG. On a dark wet winters night it is the sort of thing you want to have to get you safely home.
The M4 in contrast is less safe, with higher power via less driven wheels. It won't feel much quicker if you drive it 'like a diesel' with low revs. In fact you will only get what you paid for on the rare occasions where you can let it rip to the redline and pretty soon someone else will be in your way or speed limits will become an issue. It will be more expensive to run, in fuel, brakes etc. but perhaps not tyres.
But ... the every journey in the M4 will be an event. It will be a talking point wherever you go. The noise will be inspiring and the feeling, when you hook the power up right or corner on a dry summer road will be epic. You pay a price for that, but for many, it is one worth paying. it's the sort of thing most people grow out of, but not all.
Well puthttp://www.zeperfs.com/en/match4935-5216.htm
The 435d is an amazing car, with 4wd and huge torque it will be one of the quickest 'a-b' cars on the road and return decent MPG. On a dark wet winters night it is the sort of thing you want to have to get you safely home.
The M4 in contrast is less safe, with higher power via less driven wheels. It won't feel much quicker if you drive it 'like a diesel' with low revs. In fact you will only get what you paid for on the rare occasions where you can let it rip to the redline and pretty soon someone else will be in your way or speed limits will become an issue. It will be more expensive to run, in fuel, brakes etc. but perhaps not tyres.
But ... the every journey in the M4 will be an event. It will be a talking point wherever you go. The noise will be inspiring and the feeling, when you hook the power up right or corner on a dry summer road will be epic. You pay a price for that, but for many, it is one worth paying. it's the sort of thing most people grow out of, but not all.
Edited by Elysium on Saturday 18th November 08:21
Pretty much what has been said above, if you are concerned about fuel consumption buy the diesel, if you want it to drive half reasonably factor in the cost of a suspension upgrade and non run flat tyres (I run a 335d F31).
If you're not too fussed about fuel costs buy the M car they are in a different league to the badged m sport cars.
If you're not too fussed about fuel costs buy the M car they are in a different league to the badged m sport cars.
The 0-60 time is misleading as it’s traction aided.. it amazes me on a car forum that people can’t see that themselves.
They get off the line great due to 4wd, hence the really decent 0-60, but at any point where they’re both rolling and the M4 isn’t struggling for traction the 435d won’t see which way the M4 went.
Having owned a previous gen 335d, the engine is properly dull. I’d have a 440i over the 435d if I was struggling to justify the extra cost of the M4.
They get off the line great due to 4wd, hence the really decent 0-60, but at any point where they’re both rolling and the M4 isn’t struggling for traction the 435d won’t see which way the M4 went.
Having owned a previous gen 335d, the engine is properly dull. I’d have a 440i over the 435d if I was struggling to justify the extra cost of the M4.
philmots said:
The 0-60 time is misleading as it’s traction aided.. it amazes me on a car forum that people can’t see that themselves.
They get off the line great due to 4wd, hence the really decent 0-60
The best place to see this effect is to look at the 430d which is available both with and without xDrive.They get off the line great due to 4wd, hence the really decent 0-60
430d: 0-62 5.5
430d xDrive 0-62 5.2
Super_G said:
The 0-60 is closely matched between the two is it no? The 435d can map to 400hp. Has more torque and economy than the M4.
A remap can land you in the super car territory of 3.9 seconds to 60.
So why would anyone choose the M4? Assumptions about tracking aside.
What sets them apart?
Decision time as you can tell.
You don't experience a car via numbers on a piece of paper, drive them both on some nice open roads and then make a decision. A remap can land you in the super car territory of 3.9 seconds to 60.
So why would anyone choose the M4? Assumptions about tracking aside.
What sets them apart?
Decision time as you can tell.
If your interest in cars stops at 0-60 times then perhaps the M4 isn't for you as you'll get more enjoyment out of a remapped 435d.
Edited by Wills2 on Saturday 18th November 13:26
Elysium said:
This is a useful site for performance comparison beyond simple 0-60 times:
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match4935-5216.htm
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match4935-5216.htm
I really like that, it bears scrutiny / vindicates my feelings about relative performance of my last 4 BMW cars. I always thought the z4 and the 760 were ‘identical’ on performance, this agrees.
‘my’ link below if anyone’s interested.
Battle : 760 Li (E66) vs M6 (E63) vs 335 d (E90) vs Z4 II sDrive 35iA
Given 0-60mph is probably the most pointless metric for the driving qualities of a road car, the question comparing the two upon it is daft too imo.
I'd have an M3 over a 335d in a flash if I wanted that kinda car.
But for now I have my old Z4 which makes the 335d feel silly for driving fun... except cheap thrills in a line... but even then it's not hugely far ahead.
I'd have an M3 over a 335d in a flash if I wanted that kinda car.
But for now I have my old Z4 which makes the 335d feel silly for driving fun... except cheap thrills in a line... but even then it's not hugely far ahead.
Mike335i said:
Elysium, I fully agree with the thrust of your argument, except I don't buy all the safety nonsense. I drove an M4 on a cold, damp b road and pressed the accelerator all the way down in second in full sport mode and I didn't crash once.
There is nothing wrong with RWD.
Agreed, nothing wrong with RWD at all. It's just more lively and less forgiving than 4 wheel drive. There is nothing wrong with RWD.
Full acceleration in second gear with the throttle response set to sport plus in my M5 doesn't guarantee a crash, but it is pretty dramatic and there will be some squirming if the road is cold or wet. Plus quite a lot of wheelspin at 60mph even in the dry.
Edited by Elysium on Saturday 18th November 22:41
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