Citroen Berlingo SWB Van. Speed Limit.

[Tannedbaldhead]

Citroen Berlingo 625 Enterprise:
Chassis, Floorpan and running gear taken from the Citoen C4. A car.
A car version, the Multispace, introduced at the same time as the van.
GVW 1945kg. Law states a van is a Car Derived Van till it's GVW is 2000kgs or more.

This being the case the speed limits for said vehicle are 60mph on NSL single carriageways and 70mph on NSL duals.
Now if I'm wrong tell me I'm wrong and explain why.
Bit pissed off. Have a meeting with manager to discuss my driving. Was running a tracked pool Berlingo van all last week as pool car was being used by another driver. Was working various sites in Fife, Tayside and Aberdeen predominantly using the A92 and A90 dual carriageways. I broke speed limits 106 times in a week. If the Berlingo is allowed to travel at NSLs that number will drop like a stone and any transgressions would be measured in single figures.

[Alucidnation]

I thought it depended on what it's registered as, eg LCV on the reg document?

[Butter Face]

Depends on V5 classification.

That needs to be clarified.

AFAIK, Berlingo/Kangoo etc are not classed as CDV.

[mac96]

Given that there is frequently confusion regarding speed limits for small vans/pickups etc, if an employer intends to count speeding 'offences' and use them for performance measurement or discipline, I would expect them to make it clear what speed limits they were using for that purpose in a particular vehicle. Stickers on the dashboard perhaps.

I'd wouldn't be happy to be criticised for 'speeding' otherwise. Perhaps this is too much to hope for though.

[Sebring440]

Jesus fking titty Christ! How MANY TIMES must this be asked?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=73...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=97...

....and I could go on, ad infinitum.

[SS2.]

The definition of 'car derived van' (as provided by RTRA 1984) is a goods vehicle which is constructed or adapted as a derivative of a passenger vehicle and which has a maximum laden weight not exceeding 2 tonnes.

Whilst the DVLA's V5C classification might be persuasive, it isn't definitive.

[WarrenB]

Berlingo van is classed as a commercial, so van speed limits on NSL roads.

We have a fleet of them at work and had this discussion with the guys there many times.

[Tannedbaldhead]

WarrenB said:

Berlingo van is classed as a commercial, so van speed limits on NSL roads.

We have a fleet of them at work and had this discussion with the guys there many times.

The L625 SWB has a GVW less than 2000kg. So that shouldn't be the case.

[Butter Face]

Tannedbaldhead said:

WarrenB said:

Berlingo van is classed as a commercial, so van speed limits on NSL roads.

We have a fleet of them at work and had this discussion with the guys there many times.

The L625 SWB has a GVW less than 2000kg. So that shouldn't be the case.

IIRC the weight doesn’t actually dictate what class it’s in.

The Kangoo/Berlingo stuff isn’t counted as car derived van as it’s teally the other way around, the cars are based on the van.

If it was a Corsa van then it’s car derived.

[spikeyhead]

Tannedbaldhead said:

WarrenB said:

Berlingo van is classed as a commercial, so van speed limits on NSL roads.

We have a fleet of them at work and had this discussion with the guys there many times.

The L625 SWB has a GVW less than 2000kg. So that shouldn't be the case.

It isn't car derived. The law is <2000kg AND car derived

[mr rusty]

There was a very long thread on pepipoo not so long back that involved the OP going to mags court on this very topic. Despite quite a bit of convincing "evidence" that it should be a CDV he lost. Seemed unfair to quite a few people, but the OP didn't wish to take on the risks and costs of a higher court appeal, so rolled over.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1069...

It's obvious this particular aspect of law is a mess and no longer fit for purpose, but until it gets changed, IMO it just isn't worth fighting.

Edited by mr rusty on Wednesday 29th November 08:16

[alangla]

It's even crazier when you get to the bigger ones - a Fiat Ducato van is a commercial - fair enough. A 3 ton coachbuilt motorhome built on the Ducato platform (so longer & wider than the van) is allowed to travel at car limits! https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

OP - you mention you've been driving on the A90 - be careful - as far as I understand, average speed cameras in Scotland can recognise what class each vehicle is that passes them and applies the speed limit for the vehicle type. If you've been driving at 70 on the A90 then you're probably close to (or, worst case, over) the enforcement speeds for the new cameras. The cameras apparently went live on 31/10 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-cent...

[Register1]

My 67 reg Partner is a CDV, so normal car speed limits apply.

R1

[JM]

Register1 said:

My 67 reg Partner is a CDV, so normal car speed limits apply.

R1

What car is it a derived from?

Is it recorder on the V5 as a CDV?

[gazza285]

Register1 said:

My 67 reg Partner is a CDV, so normal car speed limits apply.

R1

Pointless thread bump, and no it isn’t.

[blank]

JM said:

Register1 said:

My 67 reg Partner is a CDV, so normal car speed limits apply.

R1

What car is it a derived from?

Is it recorder on the V5 as a CDV?

This is where it gets muddy, as there is a "passenger vehicle" version of the Partner as well as a "goods vehicle" version. So which is derived from which? Is the passenger version a van derived car?

With Partners, Connects etc there's a perfectly reasonable argument that if you have one that is under 2t GVW, and as there is a passenger vehicle version available on the same chassis, it is a car derived van. You'd be risking quite a lot to test it in court though!

[speedking31]

I'll say this again:

As the authorities have a database from which to look up the relevant speed limit in order to send out fines to speeders, why can't they make that database publically available so that everyone can check their vehicle's limits for themselves?

[gazza285]

blank said:

JM said:

Register1 said:

My 67 reg Partner is a CDV, so normal car speed limits apply.

R1

What car is it a derived from?

Is it recorder on the V5 as a CDV?

This is where it gets muddy, as there is a "passenger vehicle" version of the Partner as well as a "goods vehicle" version. So which is derived from which? Is the passenger version a van derived car?

With Partners, Connects etc there's a perfectly reasonable argument that if you have one that is under 2t GVW, and as there is a passenger vehicle version available on the same chassis, it is a car derived van. You'd be risking quite a lot to test it in court though!

The B9 Partner/Berlingo was homologated as a van first, so it is classed as a van, not a car derived van. Same with the Connect.

[hutchst]

that makes sense. I'm just going out to homologate my old Golf now.

[scorcher]

speedking31 said:

I'll say this again:

As the authorities have a database from which to look up the relevant speed limit in order to send out fines to speeders, why can't they make that database publically available so that everyone can check their vehicle's limits for themselves?

Because the database would Be wrong as it draws on info from the DVLA and that may not always show the whole picture.