Authentic look interior for E-Type kit car
Discussion
I'm just wondering, given the apparently eye-watering prices for E-Type parts and interior trims, if there is a more affordable way of getting the genuine look of the interior for an E-Type kit car?.
I've heard of some E-Type kit car owners who have spent a considerable amount of money in recreating the look of the interior of the 4.2, but to me they still can't get it right, and whether this is because they aren't using the correct materials from the right suppliers I don't know. But with the cost of trim kits (something like a grand for a few strips of carpet?, which you then have to put down yourself), early 3.8 "bucket" seats costing around 2-3 grand, and other extra bits like dash, centre console (the dash alone I've seen for a few hundred quid), door cards, handles, authentic woodrim (£260), etc, it's no wonder they don't look right.
I've heard of some E-Type kit car owners who have spent a considerable amount of money in recreating the look of the interior of the 4.2, but to me they still can't get it right, and whether this is because they aren't using the correct materials from the right suppliers I don't know. But with the cost of trim kits (something like a grand for a few strips of carpet?, which you then have to put down yourself), early 3.8 "bucket" seats costing around 2-3 grand, and other extra bits like dash, centre console (the dash alone I've seen for a few hundred quid), door cards, handles, authentic woodrim (£260), etc, it's no wonder they don't look right.
Well, my Series 1 2+2 (a 4.2 therefore) is in bits at the moment and I'd be happy to allow anyone interested to take patterns of things like the dash, door cards, carpets etc. But I'd guess most kits are copies of the OTS, so the doors will be 9" or so too long. And mine's LHD. But dash, instruments and console are largely interchangeable or mirror-imageable.
Yes, there is a "beard" premium for absolute parts authenticity. Double the premium because it's an E Type.
However, the market also caters to the plenty of amateur restorers who don't hanker after concours quality and just want to prolong the life of their car.
I'd suggest you only pay top whack for a real steering wheel, gearstick and, of course, the soft-top - after all, that really must fit perfectly.
On the rest:
Plenty of UK-based restorers have made new door cards themselves from templates taken from their old ones. Ditto the centre/radio console and armrest box. It is the small details like the ashtray where you'll need to spend the money. If you look at the E Type Forum, there are several threads showing how these jobs are done.
There are some reasonably priced carpet sets for sale from US suppliers if you are not a complete stickler for authenticity.
eBay.com often has sales of cast off US interiors or bits thereof - the hardura stuff seems to last forever. But I hadn't noticed that the replacement hardura/vinyl sets were especially dear.
YouTube is also a good source - one American chap goes into some detail about recovering the dash pieces for example, and recovering the dash top.
The three pieces of dash would be quite easy to copy on the front plane - it's the bended metal at the sides and backs that's the pain but if for a kit car those details could be bodged.
The dials and switches can largely be cannibalised from a number of contemporary Jags. And the ones that can't can be bought as repros quite reasonably. Indeed, I believe that the people who now run Smith's Instruments are launching a full faithful but modern repro E Type dial set, too.
Many E Type owners have "upgraded" their seats to MX5 (Series 1 and 2) seats for safety and comfort reasons, so they would not look incongruous in a kit. They can be gussied up by a competent trimmer to look period.
A trimmer could also do the leather and/vinyl on any plywood/MDF creations/reproductions you cared to concoct.
Yes, there is a "beard" premium for absolute parts authenticity. Double the premium because it's an E Type.
However, the market also caters to the plenty of amateur restorers who don't hanker after concours quality and just want to prolong the life of their car.
I'd suggest you only pay top whack for a real steering wheel, gearstick and, of course, the soft-top - after all, that really must fit perfectly.
On the rest:
Plenty of UK-based restorers have made new door cards themselves from templates taken from their old ones. Ditto the centre/radio console and armrest box. It is the small details like the ashtray where you'll need to spend the money. If you look at the E Type Forum, there are several threads showing how these jobs are done.
There are some reasonably priced carpet sets for sale from US suppliers if you are not a complete stickler for authenticity.
eBay.com often has sales of cast off US interiors or bits thereof - the hardura stuff seems to last forever. But I hadn't noticed that the replacement hardura/vinyl sets were especially dear.
YouTube is also a good source - one American chap goes into some detail about recovering the dash pieces for example, and recovering the dash top.
The three pieces of dash would be quite easy to copy on the front plane - it's the bended metal at the sides and backs that's the pain but if for a kit car those details could be bodged.
The dials and switches can largely be cannibalised from a number of contemporary Jags. And the ones that can't can be bought as repros quite reasonably. Indeed, I believe that the people who now run Smith's Instruments are launching a full faithful but modern repro E Type dial set, too.
Many E Type owners have "upgraded" their seats to MX5 (Series 1 and 2) seats for safety and comfort reasons, so they would not look incongruous in a kit. They can be gussied up by a competent trimmer to look period.
A trimmer could also do the leather and/vinyl on any plywood/MDF creations/reproductions you cared to concoct.
Thanks for that, much appreciated.
I was looking on youtube the other day and came across a video of BAS Jaguar showing their interior trims for the S1 FHC and OTS. They seem to be the top people as far as authenticity of interior of E-Types go. Some of the carpet sets seem quite reasonable, but it's the small things which seem to be expensive. Found this on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAGUAR-XKE-INTERIOR-DOOR-...
Who in their right mind would pay that for a tatty pair of interior handles?.
This is how the interior looks:
As you can see, it is far from being authentic (very kit car look indeed). One thing I would rip out first would be that wavy dash top. I've no idea who came up with that idea, but it doesn't look right to me. Plenty of other things need adding. The engine housed is a 3 litre Ford Essex taken from a Scimitar. The widened transmission tunnel is particularly noticeable compared to the much narrower one on an original E-Type, which is one of those things which will prevent it from looking truly 100% authentic even if everything else is spot on.
I was looking on youtube the other day and came across a video of BAS Jaguar showing their interior trims for the S1 FHC and OTS. They seem to be the top people as far as authenticity of interior of E-Types go. Some of the carpet sets seem quite reasonable, but it's the small things which seem to be expensive. Found this on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAGUAR-XKE-INTERIOR-DOOR-...
Who in their right mind would pay that for a tatty pair of interior handles?.
This is how the interior looks:
As you can see, it is far from being authentic (very kit car look indeed). One thing I would rip out first would be that wavy dash top. I've no idea who came up with that idea, but it doesn't look right to me. Plenty of other things need adding. The engine housed is a 3 litre Ford Essex taken from a Scimitar. The widened transmission tunnel is particularly noticeable compared to the much narrower one on an original E-Type, which is one of those things which will prevent it from looking truly 100% authentic even if everything else is spot on.
Edited by Jukebag on Thursday 30th November 22:05
Edited by Jukebag on Thursday 30th November 22:07
Yes, but some original parts are as rare as the proverbial rocking horse droppings. It's a seller's market, I'm afraid.
I agree that the whole dash area could be tidied easily. You could take a mould off an original set and IIRC a replacement top dash is not especially dear.
How much of the transmission tunnel width is actually needed for the transmission?
Is the car based on a Series 3 with a V12 and autobox? Even the automatic 4.2 version of the S1/2 isn't near that wide up by the dash where the bell housing would be.
If it is fibreglass, could it be chopped out and a narrower tapered version fitted and a more original console fitted?
If the car is based on an S3, maybe early XJ-S seats could be fitted.
Whatever shape you end up with, I'm afraid the trimming will need to be bespoke, whether done by you yourself or a pro.
I agree that the whole dash area could be tidied easily. You could take a mould off an original set and IIRC a replacement top dash is not especially dear.
How much of the transmission tunnel width is actually needed for the transmission?
Is the car based on a Series 3 with a V12 and autobox? Even the automatic 4.2 version of the S1/2 isn't near that wide up by the dash where the bell housing would be.
If it is fibreglass, could it be chopped out and a narrower tapered version fitted and a more original console fitted?
If the car is based on an S3, maybe early XJ-S seats could be fitted.
Whatever shape you end up with, I'm afraid the trimming will need to be bespoke, whether done by you yourself or a pro.
That interior looks terrible, an embarrassment in fact.
If you ARE going to have a replica kit car, at least put some effort into it being as near as possible to the original it's based on.
An "E" type dashboard should not be that difficult to replicate...A Lotus Elan plus 2 ( for example) would be.
If you ARE going to have a replica kit car, at least put some effort into it being as near as possible to the original it's based on.
An "E" type dashboard should not be that difficult to replicate...A Lotus Elan plus 2 ( for example) would be.
By the way, please do make sure your seats have head restraints.
It is not uncommon for E Types to be rear ended and it would be a shame to break your neck if it happened to you. That's why so many owners have migrated to MX5 seats. (MX5 because they are about the only seats that will fit an E Type.)
It is not uncommon for E Types to be rear ended and it would be a shame to break your neck if it happened to you. That's why so many owners have migrated to MX5 seats. (MX5 because they are about the only seats that will fit an E Type.)
Having been involved with Jaguars for most of my life I feel you are taking on an impossible task here. The doors, the tunnel, the dash all need serious modification if the car is to look anything like an E-type at all. The Wildcat was a pretty good attempt in the day and most were powered by the ubiquitous Rover V8. Have a look here to get some ideas of what you need to do to improve the look of your car:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9G7N-f7UrY
The door cards, the tunnel, the dash all need modifying to even remotely resemble an E-type interior, and maybe you should change tack and go for something completely individual rather than a tacky lookalike. No offence intended here, just my take on things, For comparison, here a photo of my E-type, rather doggy, after 25 years of hard use and over 100,000 miles. Very shabby, but very different to what your car is now.
IMG_0010 by Tony Brown, on Flickr
I wish you the best, but you have an uphill task in front of you. For trim Aldridge are in my opinion better kits than BAS, and as for putting headrests in an E-type well, hardly the look you are seeking. And as for E-types being hit from behind I wonder where that came from? Rather in the day that people selected reverse instead of 1st, which was and is so easy to do, and then tried to speed away. I've seen it done at the start of a hill climb!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9G7N-f7UrY
The door cards, the tunnel, the dash all need modifying to even remotely resemble an E-type interior, and maybe you should change tack and go for something completely individual rather than a tacky lookalike. No offence intended here, just my take on things, For comparison, here a photo of my E-type, rather doggy, after 25 years of hard use and over 100,000 miles. Very shabby, but very different to what your car is now.
IMG_0010 by Tony Brown, on FlickrI wish you the best, but you have an uphill task in front of you. For trim Aldridge are in my opinion better kits than BAS, and as for putting headrests in an E-type well, hardly the look you are seeking. And as for E-types being hit from behind I wonder where that came from? Rather in the day that people selected reverse instead of 1st, which was and is so easy to do, and then tried to speed away. I've seen it done at the start of a hill climb!
I'd agree with Lowdrag. You'll spend an awful lot of money getting the car to look exactly right. For example the dashboard instruments would need to be changed out too.
Trim kits are readily available but you'd be surprised how many bits are involved and you can't expect them to be cheap. Unless your car is dimensionally accurate they may not fit too well either.
Mazda seats are higher in the base than the originals which may be an issue if you're tall.
If you have a decent local trimmer I'd ask him to have a look and then get the interior looking a bit more professional (particularly the centre console), without getting too worried about it looking totally original
Better looking after-market steering wheels are available and they're the same price whatever car you buy them for, unless you go for an "original" type.
Rare original parts are expensive, that applies to any car, not just E Types.
Personally I'd focus more on getting a more professional finish and if you can achieve a more original look along the way then that's a bonus. Don't get too bogged down with exact detail, it simply isn't worth it.
And then enjoy the car !
Trim kits are readily available but you'd be surprised how many bits are involved and you can't expect them to be cheap. Unless your car is dimensionally accurate they may not fit too well either.
Mazda seats are higher in the base than the originals which may be an issue if you're tall.
If you have a decent local trimmer I'd ask him to have a look and then get the interior looking a bit more professional (particularly the centre console), without getting too worried about it looking totally original
Better looking after-market steering wheels are available and they're the same price whatever car you buy them for, unless you go for an "original" type.
Rare original parts are expensive, that applies to any car, not just E Types.
Personally I'd focus more on getting a more professional finish and if you can achieve a more original look along the way then that's a bonus. Don't get too bogged down with exact detail, it simply isn't worth it.
And then enjoy the car !
I'd be tempted to go the other way: It is going to be difficult and expensive, possibly impossible to get something that looks genuine and original so why not go for a different look? something stripped back for weight saving as if it was done in period during the car's race history. I'm thinking aluminium, off the shelf 60's style race seats, narrow belted 4 point harnesses, toggle switches with dymo tape labels (edges lifting after all those years in the barn) etc. Maybe a gauge for the diff oil temperature, left over from Sebring in '69! While you are at it, some illuminated roundels on the doors!
Anyway - just an idea
Anyway - just an idea
aeropilot said:
If trying to comply with BIVA/NIVA regs, I think headrest are necessary....?
I haven't seen the latest 309 page edition of the regs, but it wasn't necessary before. Just look at the Hofmann Proteus C-type which has no head rests as an example, or a Realm for that matter.lowdrag said:
And as for E-types being hit from behind I wonder where that came from? Rather in the day that people selected reverse instead of 1st, which was and is so easy to do, and then tried to speed away. I've seen it done at the start of a hill climb!
In the course of buying my E Type, I looked at about 40. Many more than half had had significant rear end damage. Most of the sellers confirmed rear end shunts. Clearly, the odds on any car making it to 50 unscathed are shortened simply by the amount of time they have been exposed to risk but my, admittedly unscientific, research suggests a disproportionate number have been affected.
The prevailing fashion for grey and gunmetal metallic paints, absence of DRLs and a relatively low position on the road makes the cars near invisible/indistinguishable from tarmac at certain times of year and day.
lowdrag said:
aeropilot said:
If trying to comply with BIVA/NIVA regs, I think headrest are necessary....?
I haven't seen the latest 309 page edition of the regs, but it wasn't necessary before. "Head restraints must be fitted on every outboard front seat. Minimum height to the top of the restraint is 753mm parallel to seat back.
Head restraints must beat least 85mm wide each side of middle Total 170mm and at least 100mm tall. They can be fixed or adjustable.
There must be a gap of no more than 25mm between top of seat and bottom of restraint for adjustable restraints and 50mm for fixed."
As the car is a replica, and it'll never be truly "correct", I wouldn't go chasing down perfectly exact parts at great expense, rather make it look "right", and more importantly, how you want it.
I think that dashboard is painfully obvious it's a universal design to allow for both LHD and RHD, so if you can get that gone and make a new one, it'll probably help a lot. Maybe make up the shape you want using mdf and filler, then take a mould from it?
Also, might be personal taste, but I think the colours are pretty nasty and cheapen the look of it all. Different (or at least consistent) tones might help a good deal.
I think that dashboard is painfully obvious it's a universal design to allow for both LHD and RHD, so if you can get that gone and make a new one, it'll probably help a lot. Maybe make up the shape you want using mdf and filler, then take a mould from it?
Also, might be personal taste, but I think the colours are pretty nasty and cheapen the look of it all. Different (or at least consistent) tones might help a good deal.
Thanks for the useful advice.
I have to admit the interior (particularly the dash) is awful, and very cheap and tacky looking. However, if you're one of those who always dreamed of owning an E-Type, who just wanted it for purely exterior looks but could never afford a real one, then I suppose the look of the interior of an affordable kit version isn't all that important or off-putting.If you're the average joe on the street and saw the car, you'd automatically assume it was a real E-Type, even if you actually sat in the thing and noticed the interior you'd still be none the wiser, unless of course you them inside out. But, at the end of the day it's not about fooling your next door neighbour into thinking you've just won the lottery (and with prices for E-Types these days I think you'd need to), it's about driving the car.
The car was my dads, however the look of the interior was the last thing on the to-do list for him as other, more important and problematic issues needed to be sorted on the car. So I was just looking for ideas in which to recreate a more original and nicer looking interior, so in the hope for the car to be sold in the not too distant future.
The car in question is a Wildcat. I have seen much nicer interiors of these cars.
I have to admit the interior (particularly the dash) is awful, and very cheap and tacky looking. However, if you're one of those who always dreamed of owning an E-Type, who just wanted it for purely exterior looks but could never afford a real one, then I suppose the look of the interior of an affordable kit version isn't all that important or off-putting.If you're the average joe on the street and saw the car, you'd automatically assume it was a real E-Type, even if you actually sat in the thing and noticed the interior you'd still be none the wiser, unless of course you them inside out. But, at the end of the day it's not about fooling your next door neighbour into thinking you've just won the lottery (and with prices for E-Types these days I think you'd need to), it's about driving the car.
The car was my dads, however the look of the interior was the last thing on the to-do list for him as other, more important and problematic issues needed to be sorted on the car. So I was just looking for ideas in which to recreate a more original and nicer looking interior, so in the hope for the car to be sold in the not too distant future.
The car in question is a Wildcat. I have seen much nicer interiors of these cars.
Edited by Jukebag on Friday 1st December 13:09
An old thread, but just thought I'd illustrate what can be done relatively cheaply to replicate a Series 1 interior. I'm working on my Challenger E type at the moment and everything here is either a second hand purchase on eBay or fabricated by me, even down to 'bucket' seats made from scratch. Good luck with your build. 
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