Nurburgring Lap Times

[ScienceTeacher]

An idle thread, but I can't help but notice that manufacturers of all sorts seem to be posting very fast Nurburgring times. Clearly some are taking it dreadfully seriously and professionally and pitch camp at the track and use a team of racing drivers and mechanics to fettle the car to within an inch of what is outside reasonable. I understand that tyre technology has come on apace but I cannot quite fathom how a lumpen Jaguar four door saloon (albeit a very fancy one) can post a meaningfully better time than any recorded by a Carrera GT. Surely the Porsche's basic architecture is far superior and designed for purpose and accounting for inflation would have cost about four times the price. Contributors here have suggested that the CGT with modern tyres would do about 7.15. It doesn't have active aero, 4WD, active supension, turbocharging (neither does the Lambo) or other clever gubbins, but it's very light, purpose build and very powerful. Michelin do make a modern tyre for the CGT. Should'd Clarkson et al put this to the test?
I'd FAR rather a CGT than a GT2RS.

[Digga]

There is the odd, oblique reference to certain headline lap times having been 'bought' with very non-standard car or tyre set-ups.

FWIW, the Jag XE is a pretty light car; even the 3 litre V6 is under 1,700 kgs, because there's extensive use of aluminium. Digga snr just swapped from an XF to and XE (admittedly diesel to petrol too, which makes a difference) and reckons the latter feels far lighter and much more nimble. The Project 8 is stripped out to the max with a fire-breathing V8 and some pretty lairy aero, so it's never going to be slow. The limited run of cars, apparently, were all sold out well before the lap record was even set.

[isaldiri]

To be honest, looking at the 7:11 time of the .2gt3, a cgt on Cup2s and a very brave driver should be able to go under 7:10. That's probably even without having to add the Manthey 3 way adjustable KW upgrade they have available.

The test I'd really like to see though is back to back test of a 991.1gt3 shod on the new N1 tyre with the .2 gt3 as they would be running exactly the same tyre. The .2 official laptime is so much quicker than the .1 it nearly defies belief so it would be rather interesting to see just how much of it was purely due to the tyre.

[Porsche911R]

isaldiri said:

To be honest, looking at the 7:11 time of the .2gt3, a cgt on Cup2s and a very brave driver should be able to go under 7:10. That's probably even without having to add the Manthey 3 way adjustable KW upgrade they have available.

The test I'd really like to see though is back to back test of a 991.1gt3 shod on the new N1 tyre with the .2 gt3 as they would be running exactly the same tyre. The .2 official laptime is so much quicker than the .1 it nearly defies belief so it would be rather interesting to see just how much of it was purely due to the tyre.

I would like to see the 991.2 GTS with cup 2's on and a GT3 geo.

[Chris Stott]

Porsche911R said:

I would like to see the 991.2 GTS with cup 2's on and a GT3 geo.

Both would get blown away by a Turbo S on Cups/Trofeos... the lap time Evo set in one on regular tyres at Anglesey was ridiculous... same lap time as a 991RS on cups and only 1s off a 918, also on cups, IIRC.

[Digga]

Chris Stott said:

Porsche911R said:

I would like to see the 991.2 GTS with cup 2's on and a GT3 geo.

Both would get blown away by a Turbo S on Cups/Trofeos... the lap time Evo set in one on regular tyres at Anglesey was ridiculous... same lap time as a 991RS on cups and only 1s off a 918, also on cups, IIRC.

Having driven a mildy tuned 996tt on track, it doesn't surprise me. No the turbo is never going to be quite as charming, sharp or involving as a NA GT3, but the way the things can pile on speed is addictive. You have to be going pretty quick in the first place to really get just how bonkers a turbo is; there's probably no better place to exploit this than Dottinger Hohe at the Nurburgring. Even on a crappy, wet day with a sub-optimal run out of Galgenkpf the car would be well over 160 mph under the bridge.

In terms of grunt, a 991 turbo S (I've been a passenger in one) moves the game forward again.

[Steve Rance]

With current E net and torque vectoring technology its so much easier to deploy high bhp and torque outputs than it was only a few years ago. The future of GT cars at Porsche will be turbo from now on I suspect. The GT2RS is a quantum leap forward in terms of lap performance over the GT3. Short circuit or long circuit, it's quicker. Not only can it corner as fast as a GT3, it can deploy almost all of it's power for more of the lap than turbo cars could previously as well so it's got all bases covered. If the Motosport units go that way, they will also have pedigree and that is so important to a lot of enthusiasts.

The GT turbo cars are coming and like them or loath them, they are going to be very very quick. To me that makes sense. The obsession with ring times as a single measure of performance doesnt though. Its just lots of medium and fast corners with disproportionately few big stops and slow corners to balance things out. It tests a cars power deployment, aero and high speed corner grip. I get the historical thing but i'd prefer somewhere like Spa or Oulton park to be included to give better overall measure of a sportcars performance. You can hide a car's bulk on a fast corner if it's well damped but it's a lot more difficult to do on big stops and slower, more technical sections. There's a lot to be said for smaller lighter, less poweful sports cars but that's pretty much been forgotten because the ring penalises a low powered 'skinny' and flatters a high powered 'fatty'.

Edited by Steve Rance on Friday 1st December 14:57