Is there any penalty for witnesses lying in UK civil court?
Discussion
In the UK what penalties, if any, are taken against somebody lying in a civil court case?
The issue relates to a will and its witnesses. I know the witnesses to a will didn't see the will signed by the testator. I know this because I was the only other person present when the testator did sign the will. Therefore. the will is invalid.
If the will was challenged in court and the witnesses were asked to testify they were present and lied by saying they were, despite evidence to the contrary other than my testimony, would they suffer any penalty?
The issue relates to a will and its witnesses. I know the witnesses to a will didn't see the will signed by the testator. I know this because I was the only other person present when the testator did sign the will. Therefore. the will is invalid.
If the will was challenged in court and the witnesses were asked to testify they were present and lied by saying they were, despite evidence to the contrary other than my testimony, would they suffer any penalty?
Judges discourage satellite litigation but in a clear case a Judge might send a report to the Attorney General for consideration of a prosecution for perjury. In most cases, the Judge will simply say that witness X wasn't reliable and leave it at that.
This thread appears to have fruitloop written all over it. You haven't even established in Court that someone has fibbed, and already you are thinking of penalties for fibbing. What's your beef? How do you know there wasn't a later will?
In general, litigating about wills is a good way to go bust/go nuts.
This thread appears to have fruitloop written all over it. You haven't even established in Court that someone has fibbed, and already you are thinking of penalties for fibbing. What's your beef? How do you know there wasn't a later will?
In general, litigating about wills is a good way to go bust/go nuts.
tting in the woods.....
PurpleMoonlight said:
uknick said:
I know the correct will is the one I saw signed. And, no I'm not a witness.
Were you present when the witnesses signed it?Breadvan72 said:
In general, litigating about wills is a good way to go bust/go nuts.
OP, BV72 speaks sense so listen to his advice. Also consider what happens in the event of the will being declared invalid, particularly in the scenario you describe where another will probably does not exist. It will not be re-written as the litigating parties wish even if they win their case to declare the will null and void; it will simply revert to the deceased having died intestate. After that, the estate gets divided as per intestacy rules and the litigants may still not receive anything worthwhile once the costs of contesting the will have been subtracted.
As an executor of an estate I have been drawn in to contentious probate, there is no doubt in my mind that the will is valid and reflects the wishes of the testatrix, so far I have spent 2k on solicitors fees now looking at 3k for counsel to give their opinion, who knows where it will end.
The estate is under the IHT so by no means large.
The party who placed the caveat has made all sorts of wild accusations and threats, despite their legacy being the same under a previous will.
It seems it is all too easy to lodge a caveat without grounds and at very little cost to them.
The estate is under the IHT so by no means large.
The party who placed the caveat has made all sorts of wild accusations and threats, despite their legacy being the same under a previous will.
It seems it is all too easy to lodge a caveat without grounds and at very little cost to them.
Thanks for the input.
Breadvan, your first response was what I was after.
This confirmed what I witnessed in a small claims case concerning some faulty building work many years ago. The builder submitted in evidence an expert witness report saying the work was not faulty. However, as the witness wrote the report without actually having seen the faulty work, the judge ignored the evidence in it and went with my expert witness report. My expert had actually seen the workmanship in question.
No, I didn't see the will witnessed as it was done outside of the UK back in August this year. The witnesses are close friends of the newly appointed executor. At the time it was signed the executor called to tell me. The testator has never left the UK and signed the will last week at her home, when I was the only other person present.
Yes, I am a beneficiary to the will. No, I'm not the executor. Yes, there is a valid original will from the 1970s which gives me the same benefits as the new one.
Why did I ask the question? I want to be prepared in case the will is not changed and it is challenged. I think the present will is invalid and needs to be done again. I would think a challenge would succeed if the witnesses told the truth, i.e. they signed it in the testator's absence.
However, if they were to lie in court, and I can't for the life of me think why they would, they ought to know the consequences.
Breadvan, your first response was what I was after.
This confirmed what I witnessed in a small claims case concerning some faulty building work many years ago. The builder submitted in evidence an expert witness report saying the work was not faulty. However, as the witness wrote the report without actually having seen the faulty work, the judge ignored the evidence in it and went with my expert witness report. My expert had actually seen the workmanship in question.
No, I didn't see the will witnessed as it was done outside of the UK back in August this year. The witnesses are close friends of the newly appointed executor. At the time it was signed the executor called to tell me. The testator has never left the UK and signed the will last week at her home, when I was the only other person present.
Yes, I am a beneficiary to the will. No, I'm not the executor. Yes, there is a valid original will from the 1970s which gives me the same benefits as the new one.
Why did I ask the question? I want to be prepared in case the will is not changed and it is challenged. I think the present will is invalid and needs to be done again. I would think a challenge would succeed if the witnesses told the truth, i.e. they signed it in the testator's absence.
However, if they were to lie in court, and I can't for the life of me think why they would, they ought to know the consequences.
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