Talk me out of an E46 M3
Discussion
Browsing the classifieds I've just happened to find out that E46 M3's are what I'd consider "affordable" but I'm not even looking to buy a new car and it's not a car I ever considered buying and I certainly don't want to have £10k sat in a car when it'll spend most of it's time parked up or doing a 5 mile drive to work and back, but I want one.
I'm aware of the running costs and the boot floor cracking issue, and in reality it's almost impossible to justify spending the money when 90% of the time it'll only be doing short journies in traffic. But 0-60 in 5 seconds, RWD, manual gearbox, and a big straight 6 is hard to ignore.
Are there any cheaper alternatives out there? I'm sure a 330i offers almost the same experience for a lot less money but there's going to be that time you see an M3 going in the opposite direction.
I would go out and buy one tomorrow but then that could be 10k off the mortgage or whatever else rather than sat in a potential money pit of a car.
I'm aware of the running costs and the boot floor cracking issue, and in reality it's almost impossible to justify spending the money when 90% of the time it'll only be doing short journies in traffic. But 0-60 in 5 seconds, RWD, manual gearbox, and a big straight 6 is hard to ignore.
Are there any cheaper alternatives out there? I'm sure a 330i offers almost the same experience for a lot less money but there's going to be that time you see an M3 going in the opposite direction.
I would go out and buy one tomorrow but then that could be 10k off the mortgage or whatever else rather than sat in a potential money pit of a car.
If you aren't going to put a lot of miles on it; have a decent slush fund after purchase; can trust yourself with rwd power; like the car; have somewhere sensible to store it (including on the road with a cover); can afford it.......
....I can't think why you wouldn't. Unlikely to lose much money over a year or two if you buy wisely. Lots of fun. No brainer! Do it!
....I can't think why you wouldn't. Unlikely to lose much money over a year or two if you buy wisely. Lots of fun. No brainer! Do it!
I have one and yes I ould knock 10k off the mortgage but when you get a dry day and open it up it is a great car. Does look a bit normal but the sound of the engine and if you turn the traction control off it really comes alive. You won't lose anything on depreciation so why not. worse case scenario is you sell it.
No E46 M3 is 'affordable'. I had mine for four years. Spent minimum £2k a year on it and I was adamant in keeping in pristine condition despite it being my all year round daily.
Absolutely loved it and it was just an amazing experience. But electric gremlins sealed its fate. Cars of that age just start deteriorating when it comes to electrics. I won't go into subframes, chronic rust, exhaust brackets, VANOS, Snapping springs, alloys milking.
I sorted all of the above and it was pretty much spot on and then the electrical issues literally did me in. Did not make sense to keep fixing a car like this.
I remember flooring the car and it would cut out above 3k revs every single time. I had my son in the back and it did it on the motorway.
I was so pissed off I sold it within a week.
It was a Silver grey, manual with red leather. I sold it a year ago for a Panda 100HP shed as I barely drove it towards the end and needed a station car.
Selling it and buying a Panda instead makes me realise I have a need for speed and I am looking at another M3. Probably an E92 /E93.
Absolutely loved it and it was just an amazing experience. But electric gremlins sealed its fate. Cars of that age just start deteriorating when it comes to electrics. I won't go into subframes, chronic rust, exhaust brackets, VANOS, Snapping springs, alloys milking.
I sorted all of the above and it was pretty much spot on and then the electrical issues literally did me in. Did not make sense to keep fixing a car like this.
I remember flooring the car and it would cut out above 3k revs every single time. I had my son in the back and it did it on the motorway.
I was so pissed off I sold it within a week.
It was a Silver grey, manual with red leather. I sold it a year ago for a Panda 100HP shed as I barely drove it towards the end and needed a station car.
Selling it and buying a Panda instead makes me realise I have a need for speed and I am looking at another M3. Probably an E92 /E93.
Edited by HannsG on Sunday 3rd December 19:59
Kawasicki said:
I thought about getting one. Then drove one at a track day. I was a bit disappointed by how much of a GT it felt...the 944 Turbo I had made it feel like a fat, slow witted thing, with big plush seats...just not focused enough.
I think that's a really good sum up, and I think the M3 tries to be good at everything, but in doing so it misses the mark in many ways. s91 said:
Browsing the classifieds I've just happened to find out that E46 M3's are what I'd consider "affordable" but I'm not even looking to buy a new car and it's not a car I ever considered buying and I certainly don't want to have £10k sat in a car when it'll spend most of it's time parked up or doing a 5 mile drive to work and back, but I want one.
I'm aware of the running costs and the boot floor cracking issue, and in reality it's almost impossible to justify spending the money when 90% of the time it'll only be doing short journies in traffic. But 0-60 in 5 seconds, RWD, manual gearbox, and a big straight 6 is hard to ignore.
Are there any cheaper alternatives out there? I'm sure a 330i offers almost the same experience for a lot less money but there's going to be that time you see an M3 going in the opposite direction.
I would go out and buy one tomorrow but then that could be 10k off the mortgage or whatever else rather than sat in a potential money pit of a car.
I was looking earlier this year, first for a 330, but if a 330, why not an M3? but if an M3 why not an M5? so I bought an e39 M5!I'm aware of the running costs and the boot floor cracking issue, and in reality it's almost impossible to justify spending the money when 90% of the time it'll only be doing short journies in traffic. But 0-60 in 5 seconds, RWD, manual gearbox, and a big straight 6 is hard to ignore.
Are there any cheaper alternatives out there? I'm sure a 330i offers almost the same experience for a lot less money but there's going to be that time you see an M3 going in the opposite direction.
I would go out and buy one tomorrow but then that could be 10k off the mortgage or whatever else rather than sat in a potential money pit of a car.
I can ignore 0-60 in 5 seconds, manual gearbox and a big straigt six when I have sub 5 0-60 / manual / v8
the biggest issue I found was how many M3s had been trashed... the M5 seems to be treated better, used more sensibly... and I didn't find a huge difference in price, though my budget was higher...
Owned 3 in a row and loved them, that was a while back but they were pretty trouble free. Had an E46 330i manual previously - the M3's are way more special. They still look good too. Park one next to a normal E46 and you really notice the differences - they made a good effort visually after the very plain E36 M3.
The killer is they are all just getting on a bit now and newer V8 M3's are temptingly cheap !
The killer is they are all just getting on a bit now and newer V8 M3's are temptingly cheap !
blade7 said:
10 years ago the E46 was around twice the price of the E36, the E46 prices must have bottomed out by now?
IMO they bottomed out a year or two ago and good ones are now making strong money, specifically the run out M3 CS.OP given what you've said about the driving you do I just wouldn't. I can't see it feeling worthwhile for your usage in enjoyment vs maintenance, unless you plan to make proper use of it at the weekends I expect it would end up frustrating in the end.
Given you can get a manual 6 cylinder e46 for a tenth of what your looking to spend on an M3, for what you do I'd of thought a 325/330 would be good enough/enjoyable enough 95% of the time.
Kawasicki said:
I thought about getting one. Then drove one at a track day. I was a bit disappointed by how much of a GT it felt...the 944 Turbo I had made it feel like a fat, slow witted thing, with big plush seats...just not focused enough.
When I was considering both for a weekend car it seemed the M3 had a better engine, and the 944 turbo had a better chassis. Kawasicki said:
I thought about getting one. Then drove one at a track day. I was a bit disappointed by how much of a GT it felt...the 944 Turbo I had made it feel like a fat, slow witted thing, with big plush seats...just not focused enough.
I've had both and currently own an E46 M3.The 944 had a decent spec including KWv3s, Michelin PS2s, Porsche Big Black brakes, 300BHP courtesy of a chip, Stage 1 LR intercooler Wortec exhaust and a few other mods which ProMax seemed to keep quiet about ; it was Andrew Sweetenaham's old car. In comparison to my lower mileage S2 it was a superb car in comparison. I still miss selling the Turbo, partly down to their rapid rise in value over the years
My M3 is not the ideal spec for most but for me it's great
When I got it the car didn't feel much faster than a 330i and I thought exactly the same thing as you. I have access to two Ford Mondeo 2.5Ts and they felt not far off ; they have superb low end torque however which can be very deceptive.
I sorted out a few key issues including:
-Tyres ; MPS4(S)s all round
-Poly subframe bushings and an reinforced RACP
-An Inspection I done correctly by myself ; a lot of specialists near me weren't interested in doing this. I also used the genuine oil and filter along with a Mahle/OE air filter. Let's just say I can appreciate why an Inspection I is £400-500 ; it's not a pleasant job
-VANOS Level 1 Service.
-Viscous coupling changed for a Hella/BEHR item ; the item previously fitted was too tight
IMHO the overall combination of those bits perked it up. Even my friends have said it feels a lot faster than when I bought it, but it was only better after all of them were changed. It still has the GTness but it now feels a lot perkier and angile than previously before.
Costs? IMHO, it really depends on how dirty you want your hands to get. If I gave my car to a garage for all of the jobs I could have added another £1.3k onto my bill. It's fine now but it's also now become a second car. If you want a cheaper car to run I'd say consider the M135i or even the 130i ; they are far cheaper to run.
As for looking here is my experience:
My Search for an M3
Ownership until now
Costs, I hope you are sitting firmly
My Ride thread on PH
I was debating getting rid. But I can say it's the best car I've had in terms of doing everything. But they have to be right ; going half arsed on tyres and servicing will ruin the experience. More than the gearbox does despite what people say
.Edited by SebringMan on Monday 4th December 20:11
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 4th December 20:14
In your position OP I wouldn't bother. I think you would resent the running costs for the type of journeys that you would do in it, and ultimately, you would get used to the power anyway. You'd be better off sinking £3k or whatever into a 330Ci instead, you'll get about 80% of the performance / fun for about half the running costs and a third of the price to purchase. In fact, if you're just driving it to work and back, I'd say the 330 would end up being more or less 95% of the fun since you won't be getting to stretch its legs.
However, it really is up to you, but for me, I don't see it as being special enough for the running costs but that's just me.
If you don't need 4 seats, what about an old 350Z? Super reliable, cheap enough to buy and run, and not far behind in performance terms.
However, it really is up to you, but for me, I don't see it as being special enough for the running costs but that's just me.
If you don't need 4 seats, what about an old 350Z? Super reliable, cheap enough to buy and run, and not far behind in performance terms.
Have you driven one? Depending on what you expect it might be amazing or it might be s
t.
I've only driven one and it felt like a normal boring 3 series with a reasonable sounding but sadly asthmatic engine. Bit big, big heavy, bit too plush. You have to work it hard which could be fun or could be frustrating depending on your point of view. It's no sports car to my mind anyway. Watch out for rusty st boxes too! I had a go of a mates CSL and it's surprising how much more special it felt.
The e90 (I actually owned one of these - for about 5 months) was worse. Stonking engine but the car was way too heavy for it and the whole experience was too refined for what i was looking for. In actual fact, i watched a video last night of an e21 with the s65 v8 in it - now there's a bmw i'd properly covet.
t.I've only driven one and it felt like a normal boring 3 series with a reasonable sounding but sadly asthmatic engine. Bit big, big heavy, bit too plush. You have to work it hard which could be fun or could be frustrating depending on your point of view. It's no sports car to my mind anyway. Watch out for rusty s
t boxes too! I had a go of a mates CSL and it's surprising how much more special it felt. The e90 (I actually owned one of these - for about 5 months) was worse. Stonking engine but the car was way too heavy for it and the whole experience was too refined for what i was looking for. In actual fact, i watched a video last night of an e21 with the s65 v8 in it - now there's a bmw i'd properly covet.
Lefty said:
sadly asthmatic engine. .
The one you tried must have been broken, they are anything but asthmatic. VANOS issues would be one of the typical causes of the engine feeling flat or gutless. Mine is mainly a weekend/occasional track car but I commute in it once a week to keep everything lubricated and even pulling 2000rpm in 6th on the motorway it picks up instantly and pulls well.charltjr said:
The one you tried must have been broken, they are anything but asthmatic. VANOS issues would be one of the typical causes of the engine feeling flat or gutless. Mine is mainly a weekend/occasional track car but I commute in it once a week to keep everything lubricated and even pulling 2000rpm in 6th on the motorway it picks up instantly and pulls well.
Likewise, It's surprising how well they respond to good and correct maintenance.TameRacingDriver said:
In your position OP I wouldn't bother. I think you would resent the running costs for the type of journeys that you would do in it, and ultimately, you would get used to the power anyway. You'd be better off sinking £3k or whatever into a 330Ci instead, you'll get about 80% of the performance / fun for about half the running costs and a third of the price to purchase. In fact, if you're just driving it to work and back, I'd say the 330 would end up being more or less 95% of the fun since you won't be getting to stretch its legs.
However, it really is up to you, but for me, I don't see it as being special enough for the running costs but that's just me.
If you don't need 4 seats, what about an old 350Z? Super reliable, cheap enough to buy and run, and not far behind in performance terms.
I agree with everything you have said, except I don't like the 350Z. Sue me!However, it really is up to you, but for me, I don't see it as being special enough for the running costs but that's just me.
If you don't need 4 seats, what about an old 350Z? Super reliable, cheap enough to buy and run, and not far behind in performance terms.
For that money an E87 130i would be where my money was going if I needed practicality and two seats.
The E46 M3 can do it, but potentially with hassle and at a price, and I'm going beyond the purchase price as said. I do find mine lovely and great however. Maybe not quite as special as my 944 Turbo was but not too far away either, and it excels in other areas.
The E46 M3 can do it, but potentially with hassle and at a price, and I'm going beyond the purchase price as said. I do find mine lovely and great however. Maybe not quite as special as my 944 Turbo was but not too far away either, and it excels in other areas.
I did it 3 months ago. I came from a Megane 275 cup-s and found the following:
Definitely more GT car than I was expecting.
Feels very heavy and plenty of body roll.
Superb engine - pulls so hard, makes progress effortless.
Standard brakes are shockingly bad. Initial bite is OK, but as soon as warm and spirited, fade almost immediately.
Steering and throttle response great
The definition of a grower - Underwhelming initially and takes time to bond/learn how to exploit it but is rewarding for it.
Proper tyres transform handling so if you drive one with old contis or worse you'll hate it.
Definitely more GT car than I was expecting.
Feels very heavy and plenty of body roll.
Superb engine - pulls so hard, makes progress effortless.
Standard brakes are shockingly bad. Initial bite is OK, but as soon as warm and spirited, fade almost immediately.
Steering and throttle response great
The definition of a grower - Underwhelming initially and takes time to bond/learn how to exploit it but is rewarding for it.
Proper tyres transform handling so if you drive one with old contis or worse you'll hate it.
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