Speed Limits - Aren't they a bit too slow?
Discussion
Whilst I'd never break the law I can't help thinking that a lot of speed limits are just plain daft, there's stretches of dual carriageway that you could easily do 70 in that are limited to 40s and 50s and then twisty turny country lanes that it's not safe to do any more than forty in that are NSL (60). As for motorways, surely any road with three lanes should be at least 90, preferably 100mph as it's designed to move people quickly?
revvingit said:
Whilst I'd never break the law I can't help thinking that a lot of speed limits are just plain daft, there's stretches of dual carriageway that you could easily do 70 in that are limited to 40s and 50s and then twisty turny country lanes that it's not safe to do any more than forty in that are NSL (60). As for motorways, surely any road with three lanes should be at least 90, preferably 100mph as it's designed to move people quickly?
revvingit said:
Whilst I'd never break the law I can't help thinking that a lot of speed limits are just plain daft, there's stretches of dual carriageway that you could easily do 70 in that are limited to 40s and 50s and then twisty turny country lanes that it's not safe to do any more than forty in that are NSL (60). As for motorways, surely any road with three lanes should be at least 90, preferably 100mph as it's designed to move people quickly?
How do you know what is or isn't safe if you never break the Law?I suggest that you test your theory and report back on whether you were scared or not.
cmaguire said:
How do you know what is or isn't safe if you never break the Law?
I suggest that you test your theory and report back on whether you were scared or not.
By using other roads where these speed limits haven't been imposed and comparing them for reference? It's a fairly easy thing to do. If a long straight stretch of flat dual carriageway with nothing around it is safe to do 70 then why is it suddenly only good for 40 because it's in a different location? Obviously, unless anyone here wants to risk their license, of which I am not in the queue for, we can only use cross-reference points to assess whether a road is safe to a certain speed limit.I suggest that you test your theory and report back on whether you were scared or not.
Motorways with three lanes should be 100mph hard limit though (12 points, 2 year driving ban and a 10k fine for breaching it); they are supposed to be designed as the fastest way to navigate the country. There's enough space if there's three lanes for a slow lane for lorries, and intermediate overtaking lane for cars doing 70-90 and a fast lane for cars doing over 90 to utilise in overtaking.
We’ve had a local road gradually reduced from NSL to 50 and now down to 30mph due to the village busybodies and “Speed kills” idiots campaigning. There has been a fair few crashes at the cross roads at the top of the hill but this is down to poor signage and the half asleep (usually elderly) bell ends that fail to give way at the cross roads.
Low and behold there’s still as many crashes now because the half asleep
s are still pulling out in front cars doing 30mph and getting T-Boned.
The trouble seems to be that it only takes a few local bell ends moaning at the council to get a limit lowered, however if you had an overall vote across the village most people wouldn’t go for it.
Low and behold there’s still as many crashes now because the half asleep
s are still pulling out in front cars doing 30mph and getting T-Boned.The trouble seems to be that it only takes a few local bell ends moaning at the council to get a limit lowered, however if you had an overall vote across the village most people wouldn’t go for it.
I think the correct answer is that some are and some aren't.
I have noticed that I feel like I'm going slowly when sticking to many speed limits, but I have also noticed that I unfortunately have to share the roads with lots of other people. Many of those people have no spatial awareness, and don't seem particularly competent or confident even at the silly low speed limits. If speed limits were increased then I could see a lot of these 'less confident' drivers becoming a complete liability. These same drivers are also often a bit of a danger when left to select their own appropriate speed in NSLs.
I don't care much about the limits. I drive to the conditions, and often find myself below the speed limit in urban areas, but also above the limit when safe. I have driven very enthusiastically for many years and have no points and never been done for speeding. Turn on Waze and make sure you're paying attention and you'll probably not get done for speeding very often. If I pick up 6+ points then I guess I'll have to slow down for a while, until then I don't care.
I have noticed that I feel like I'm going slowly when sticking to many speed limits, but I have also noticed that I unfortunately have to share the roads with lots of other people. Many of those people have no spatial awareness, and don't seem particularly competent or confident even at the silly low speed limits. If speed limits were increased then I could see a lot of these 'less confident' drivers becoming a complete liability. These same drivers are also often a bit of a danger when left to select their own appropriate speed in NSLs.
I don't care much about the limits. I drive to the conditions, and often find myself below the speed limit in urban areas, but also above the limit when safe. I have driven very enthusiastically for many years and have no points and never been done for speeding. Turn on Waze and make sure you're paying attention and you'll probably not get done for speeding very often. If I pick up 6+ points then I guess I'll have to slow down for a while, until then I don't care.
Revvingit, by your user name I'd say you are an enthusiastic driver. I'd also take a bet, though I have no evidence, that you are fairly young. But then most people are younger than me now days. I've had my licence for over 50 years - and some would say this is justification to be reminded that there's a reason they give out bus passes - but during this time I have never had a penalty point, nor have I had an accident - before a couple of months ago when a young man reversed out of a bay into the side of my car in a car park (!)
Let me give you the benefit of my experience. Despite the people who will tell you that highways departments are staffed by meanies with an anti-motorist agenda, there's a reason for these speed limits that irritate you so much. For you to say that you can't see why you shouldn't be going faster just rings alarm bells in my mind,
Where I used to live in Epping, the main road runs north-south through the town. It used to be a 60 mph single carriageway road, except, of course, for the bit through the High Street. Two miles north of town there is a little village. Most of the houses are on the west side of the road, but (cleverly) the park and playground are on the east side. The only crossing point has a traffic island, and a while back a little girl was killed here crossing the road. The speed limit was reduced to 40 mph. Do you think that is unreasonable? Yet, if you didn't know the history of the place, and didn't have enough awareness of the dangers, you could well see that limit as annoyingly low.
Can I suggest that many other places that have what may seem to you unreasonable limits could have a similar history. Limits are there for a reason.
South of Epping, by the way, there is also a 40 mph limit, all the way through the forest. A pain the backside, to be honest, but the reason it was put there was because of the born-again bikers using the road as a race track over the weekends and generally making a nuisance of themselves. So now we all suffer. Again, there was a reason.
I appreciate that young drivers may find it exciting to drive briskly (I was young once myself!) and I have a life long interest in motor sport through participation in karting with my kids and marshalling with the BRDC, but public roads aren't the place to go fast, and they don't give out prizes for doing it. The speed limits that you find frustratingly low serve a purpose to protect the rest of us.
If you want to drive fast, go to a track day and have all the fun you want, but while on the road, observe the limits that have been put there for the public interest.
Let me give you the benefit of my experience. Despite the people who will tell you that highways departments are staffed by meanies with an anti-motorist agenda, there's a reason for these speed limits that irritate you so much. For you to say that you can't see why you shouldn't be going faster just rings alarm bells in my mind,
Where I used to live in Epping, the main road runs north-south through the town. It used to be a 60 mph single carriageway road, except, of course, for the bit through the High Street. Two miles north of town there is a little village. Most of the houses are on the west side of the road, but (cleverly) the park and playground are on the east side. The only crossing point has a traffic island, and a while back a little girl was killed here crossing the road. The speed limit was reduced to 40 mph. Do you think that is unreasonable? Yet, if you didn't know the history of the place, and didn't have enough awareness of the dangers, you could well see that limit as annoyingly low.
Can I suggest that many other places that have what may seem to you unreasonable limits could have a similar history. Limits are there for a reason.
South of Epping, by the way, there is also a 40 mph limit, all the way through the forest. A pain the backside, to be honest, but the reason it was put there was because of the born-again bikers using the road as a race track over the weekends and generally making a nuisance of themselves. So now we all suffer. Again, there was a reason.
I appreciate that young drivers may find it exciting to drive briskly (I was young once myself!) and I have a life long interest in motor sport through participation in karting with my kids and marshalling with the BRDC, but public roads aren't the place to go fast, and they don't give out prizes for doing it. The speed limits that you find frustratingly low serve a purpose to protect the rest of us.
If you want to drive fast, go to a track day and have all the fun you want, but while on the road, observe the limits that have been put there for the public interest.
I was just consulted - my street is 30mph - and they want us to say what we think of 20mph.
I know i'm barking at the moon, but I wrote quite a reasonable response, around if people are ignoring 30, they'll ignore 20.
Mainly though I was pointing out that all the law abiders, will be so busy looking at their speedo to ensure they are doing 20mph, they may well run over the child, cat, goose, grandma as they aren't looking out of the clear bit at the front.
I know it will fall on deaf ears.
Making it 20mph will make no difference what so ever.........but if they try and put speed humps in..........well, then we shall have a problem.
I know i'm barking at the moon, but I wrote quite a reasonable response, around if people are ignoring 30, they'll ignore 20.
Mainly though I was pointing out that all the law abiders, will be so busy looking at their speedo to ensure they are doing 20mph, they may well run over the child, cat, goose, grandma as they aren't looking out of the clear bit at the front.
I know it will fall on deaf ears.
Making it 20mph will make no difference what so ever.........but if they try and put speed humps in..........well, then we shall have a problem.
RacerMDR said:
I
...Mainly though I was pointing out that all the law abiders, will be so busy looking at their speedo to ensure they are doing 20mph, they may well run over the child, cat, goose, grandma as they aren't looking out of the clear bit at the front.
....
I never buy this bit. It's one of the least convincing arguments on the speed debate. Do people have cars with the speedo on the floor, or something?...Mainly though I was pointing out that all the law abiders, will be so busy looking at their speedo to ensure they are doing 20mph, they may well run over the child, cat, goose, grandma as they aren't looking out of the clear bit at the front.
....
Breadvan72 said:
I never buy this bit. It's one of the least convincing arguments on the speed debate. Do people have cars with the speedo on the floor, or something?
well no, but surely in an area of requiring the utmost attention to what could jump out on you, any requirement to look at your speedo is unwelcome?I would rather people were watching where they are going............fully..............rather than any, even momentarily glance at their speedo - even if that means they are doing 30 in a 20.............
less of an argument on a motorway for obvious reasons.
The OP was talking about dual carriageways, not school zones.
There are lots of country roads where I live that are NSL 60 that have cyclists on them. Really should be reduced to 40, fortunately common sense prevails and few people travel at 60 on those roads. Likewise, if I see a playground or a pavement next to the road I'd reduce my speed and not do 60. Drivers should use their common sense and pedestrians should not rely on the law to protect them. May lead to prosecution later but you're dead then.
As for dual carriageways, especially those with a central reservation - why a speed limit at all? There's usually so much traffic that you can't even get to 70mph, and safety cameras make the traffic worse due to panic braking.
There are lots of country roads where I live that are NSL 60 that have cyclists on them. Really should be reduced to 40, fortunately common sense prevails and few people travel at 60 on those roads. Likewise, if I see a playground or a pavement next to the road I'd reduce my speed and not do 60. Drivers should use their common sense and pedestrians should not rely on the law to protect them. May lead to prosecution later but you're dead then.
As for dual carriageways, especially those with a central reservation - why a speed limit at all? There's usually so much traffic that you can't even get to 70mph, and safety cameras make the traffic worse due to panic braking.
Breadvan72 said:
I never buy this bit. It's one of the least convincing arguments on the speed debate. Do people have cars with the speedo on the floor, or something?
True it is a weak argument if only the speedo was mentioned, but what is generally found is that drivers lose a lot of concentration at speeds they assume are well under what they would consider appropriate.This may then allure them to check whats on the phone, play around with the radio/sat nav/touch screen, start focusing on the passing scenery, all under the perception that nothing much is happening in front of the car due to the much lower speed of travel.
Can't seem to find a link about it on the internet but there was a study done a while back which tracked the movement of driver's eyes and showed that focusing ahead at lower speeds started to drop off a lot.
Strangely though, at high speeds, the driver focused too much on what was directly ahead and started to ignore peripheral vision.
Breadvan72 said:
Driving at 20 mph is hardly intense. You don't need to fixate on the needle.
well some people do - as skill levels vary massively. If the guidelines are to believed 20 + 10% + 2 would be 24mph for 3 points...........I personally think that is too slow, too low a variation and thus I can see why drivers would be distracted, or they'll do 15mph, and may have someone impatient overtaking them, thus increasing the risk.
RacerMDR said:
Breadvan72 said:
I never buy this bit. It's one of the least convincing arguments on the speed debate. Do people have cars with the speedo on the floor, or something?
well no, but surely in an area of requiring the utmost attention to what could jump out on you, any requirement to look at your speedo is unwelcome?You only need to be looking at the speedo where's safe to exceed the limit, which by nature is in areas that aren't likely to have something jump out on you.
You could also stick the speed limiter to 20 & adjust it to 30/40/50/60/70 when you reach that limit.
Edited by vonhosen on Monday 4th December 15:46
vonhosen said:
RacerMDR said:
Breadvan72 said:
I never buy this bit. It's one of the least convincing arguments on the speed debate. Do people have cars with the speedo on the floor, or something?
well no, but surely in an area of requiring the utmost attention to what could jump out on you, any requirement to look at your speedo is unwelcome?You only need to be looking at the speedo where's safe to exceed the limit, which by nature is in areas that aren't likely to have something jump out on you.
You could also stick the speed limiter to 20 & adjust it to 30/40/50/60/70 when you reach that limit.
RacerMDR said:
Mainly though I was pointing out that all the law abiders, will be so busy looking at their speedo to ensure they are doing 20mph, they may well run over the child, cat, goose, grandma as they aren't looking out of the clear bit at the front.
I think this just cements the idea that car drivers are idiots. They're planning to make my road a 20 and when it comes to consultation time I won't be using that as a defence, I'll be focusing on the fact that 20 zones are uncomfortable for motor vehicles, slows down emergency vehicles, expensive to implant, expensive to maintain, causes more noise and vibration, if speed bumps or traffic calming is used it increases emissions as drivers accelerate and brake between furniture. If it's a 20 limit, it doesn't guarantee drivers will drive at 20. If the road is a bus route, lower speeds will make buses slower over the route, no resources to enforce limits, congestion is higher...
Loads of points you could make.
RacerMDR said:
vonhosen said:
RacerMDR said:
Breadvan72 said:
I never buy this bit. It's one of the least convincing arguments on the speed debate. Do people have cars with the speedo on the floor, or something?
well no, but surely in an area of requiring the utmost attention to what could jump out on you, any requirement to look at your speedo is unwelcome?You only need to be looking at the speedo where's safe to exceed the limit, which by nature is in areas that aren't likely to have something jump out on you.
You could also stick the speed limiter to 20 & adjust it to 30/40/50/60/70 when you reach that limit.
You still have to press the throttle but it stops you accelerating beyond the set speed. You set the speed on the approach to the lower limit, you know, before you get to the lower limit area where you are so worried about lowering your gaze a fraction of a second because something might jump out.
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