Turning left at a green light

[sgtBerbatov]

This happened this morning.

I was driving along Colmore Row in Birmingham, past Snow Hill station and over the lights which tell you to stop when the tram is coming. Beyond that there's a sort of T junction which are regulated by lights. You can only go straight on or turn left by the West Midlands Police headquarters.

The lights for me are one of those that have the standard Red Amber and Green lights, but they also have a green arrow next to them. Usually when I get to these lights the red light is on but the green arrow is shown. So I know I can turn left.

This morning though I was behind some numpty, and the light was solid green but there wasn't a green arrow. To me this meant I could still turn left if I so wished, but the clown in front slammed his brakes on while indicating to go left. I nearly went in to him and sounded my horn. Did this a few times, and he wouldn't move. I then moved around him as I thought he might be dozy enough to have parked at a junction. But no, he was just sat there. I shouted at him as he had his window up, and he shrugged his shoulders.

Now was I wrong in my interpretation of the lights or was he just being a nause?

[TooMany2cvs]

If it was a green full circular light, then it's good for all directions.
If it was a green straight-on arrow, then it's straight-on only.

Basic roadsignage, highway code, driving test, etc...

[sgtBerbatov]

That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure I was right.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

sgtBerbatov said:

but the clown in front slammed his brakes on while indicating to go left. I nearly went in to him

So you were driving too close.

[yellowjack]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

sgtBerbatov said:

but the clown in front slammed his brakes on while indicating to go left. I nearly went in to him

So you were driving too close.

Nope. If he were too close he would have "went into him".

Besides which, with a green light ahead it isn't such a ridiculous stretch to assume that the idiot in the car ahead would have kept moving (presuming traffic ahead was otherwise clear, and no-one was crossing the road, etc...).

[Joeguard1990]

you were right to bib him, green light means you can turn when safe to do so or carry on straight.

[Pica-Pica]

Yes. Full green = proceed with care in all directions (best not to reverse though)
Green arrow = proceed (with care) in that direction.
There are other combinations see

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

The thing that irritates me (slightly) is people who refuse to move on a flashing amber, when all is clear (of pedestrians usually).

Edited by Pica-Pica on Monday 4th December 11:17

Edited by Pica-Pica on Monday 4th December 11:19

[eatcustard]

I have has exactly the same think happen to me at the same junction.

Pap horn, and they look at you as if you have lost it.

[alangla]

There's a similar situation just outside Motherwell, but dealt with rather differently - https://goo.gl/maps/miBgHAmdymx - in this case, there's a no left turn sign (you can see it faintly in that picture) that illuminates if the level crossing barriers are down. Strangely, on the far side of the junction, there's lights with explicit left and straight on arrows - presumably the left one stays red if the barriers are down. Also probably one of the few level crossings without the usual double flashing red lights.

[Pica-Pica]

alangla said:

There's a similar situation just outside Motherwell, but dealt with rather differently - https://goo.gl/maps/miBgHAmdymx - in this case, there's a no left turn sign (you can see it faintly in that picture) that illuminates if the level crossing barriers are down. Strangely, on the far side of the junction, there's lights with explicit left and straight on arrows - presumably the left one stays red if the barriers are down. Also probably one of the few level crossings without the usual double flashing red lights.

That on/off no left turn looks useful. However, if people want to turn that way; when it is lit up do people
a) drive on ahead, and seek another route or
b) just wait there?

[alangla]

Pica-Pica said:

alangla said:

There's a similar situation just outside Motherwell, but dealt with rather differently - https://goo.gl/maps/miBgHAmdymx - in this case, there's a no left turn sign (you can see it faintly in that picture) that illuminates if the level crossing barriers are down. Strangely, on the far side of the junction, there's lights with explicit left and straight on arrows - presumably the left one stays red if the barriers are down. Also probably one of the few level crossings without the usual double flashing red lights.

That on/off no left turn looks useful. However, if people want to turn that way; when it is lit up do people
a) drive on ahead, and seek another route or
b) just wait there?

Good question. I expect the locals probably just wait, others, who knows? There are level crossing warnings on the approach, and fairly clear road markings, so I guess most people would figure out there was a crossing there & wait. There actually isn't any other way into that area going straight ahead, you'd have to turn round, head back into Motherwell town centre then have to go right round the one way system, so a sat nav would probably be pretty insistent that you should turn there. You can, however, be held there for ages if the train is stopping at Motherwell station - a quirk of the way the signalling seems to be set up.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

yellowjack said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

sgtBerbatov said:

but the clown in front slammed his brakes on while indicating to go left. I nearly went in to him

So you were driving too close.

Nope. If he were too close he would have "went into him".

Nope.

Almost went into him = too close
Went into him = far too close
Had to brake with no drama and was nowhere near colliding = about right.

[sgtBerbatov]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

yellowjack said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

sgtBerbatov said:

but the clown in front slammed his brakes on while indicating to go left. I nearly went in to him

So you were driving too close.

Nope. If he were too close he would have "went into him".

Nope.

Almost went into him = too close
Went into him = far too close
Had to brake with no drama and was nowhere near colliding = about right.

Exactly. I read the road in front of me, saw the green light, saw the idiot in front braking to a stop. Saw no one in the road, or in front of him. So I stopped and alerted him to my presence behind him. If I hadn't had been looking at what was going on I would've hit him.

[yellowjack]

sgtBerbatov said:

Exactly. I read the road in front of me, saw the green light, saw the idiot in front braking to a stop. Saw no one in the road, or in front of him. So I stopped and alerted him to my presence behind him. If I hadn't had been looking at what was going on I would've hit him.

Weird that we seem to be in agreement on this thread, yet we're squabbling like a couple of children on another one right now...

[sgtBerbatov]

yellowjack said:

sgtBerbatov said:

Exactly. I read the road in front of me, saw the green light, saw the idiot in front braking to a stop. Saw no one in the road, or in front of him. So I stopped and alerted him to my presence behind him. If I hadn't had been looking at what was going on I would've hit him.

Weird that we seem to be in agreement on this thread, yet we're squabbling like a couple of children on another one right now...

It's because you're not on your bike on this thread

[xjay1337]

There are a number of these around me and it's very annoying when the 1 in 10 drivers who don't realise cause you to sit there and wait....


Grr!!!

[TwigtheWonderkid]

yellowjack said:

Besides which, with a green light ahead it isn't such a ridiculous stretch to assume that the idiot in the car ahead would have kept moving

If you assume he's an idiot, which I think is the correct assumption to make for everyone, then it's probably sensible to assume he will stop for no reason. What with being an idiot and all that.

[yellowjack]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

yellowjack said:

Besides which, with a green light ahead it isn't such a ridiculous stretch to assume that the idiot in the car ahead would have kept moving

If you assume he's an idiot, which I think is the correct assumption to make for everyone, then it's probably sensible to assume he will stop for no reason. What with being an idiot and all that.

This is a good point, and well presented. Although I do tend, anyway, toward leaving sufficient space between me and anyone ahead of me to allow for them doing something daft without it causing me undue stress.

Like when I'm "beeped" at by some cretin behind me at a set of traffic lights for not closing the gap to the car in front. Only to be vindicated on my positioning decision by the (more Rollback than) ASDA driver ahead of me.

[Pica-Pica]

yellowjack said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

yellowjack said:

Besides which, with a green light ahead it isn't such a ridiculous stretch to assume that the idiot in the car ahead would have kept moving

If you assume he's an idiot, which I think is the correct assumption to make for everyone, then it's probably sensible to assume he will stop for no reason. What with being an idiot and all that.

This is a good point, and well presented. Although I do tend, anyway, toward leaving sufficient space between me and anyone ahead of me to allow for them doing something daft without it causing me undue stress.

Like when I'm "beeped" at by some cretin behind me at a set of traffic lights for not closing the gap to the car in front. Only to be vindicated on my positioning decision by the (more Rollback than) ASDA driver ahead of me.

Tyres and tarmac, tyres and tarmac. That way you can past without reversing should you need to, stalled car, mugger, SEG etc.

[Red Devil]

alangla said:

Pica-Pica said:

alangla said:

There's a similar situation just outside Motherwell, but dealt with rather differently - https://goo.gl/maps/miBgHAmdymx - in this case, there's a no left turn sign (you can see it faintly in that picture) that illuminates if the level crossing barriers are down. Strangely, on the far side of the junction, there's lights with explicit left and straight on arrows - presumably the left one stays red if the barriers are down. Also probably one of the few level crossings without the usual double flashing red lights.

That on/off no left turn looks useful. However, if people want to turn that way; when it is lit up do people
a) drive on ahead, and seek another route or
b) just wait there?

Good question. I expect the locals probably just wait, others, who knows? There are level crossing warnings on the approach, and fairly clear road markings, so I guess most people would figure out there was a crossing there & wait. There actually isn't any other way into that area going straight ahead, you'd have to turn round, head back into Motherwell town centre then have to go right round the one way system, so a sat nav would probably be pretty insistent that you should turn there. You can, however, be held there for ages if the train is stopping at Motherwell station - a quirk of the way the signalling seems to be set up.

There is no sign prohibiting traffic from going straight ahead from the left hand lane.
It would need the addition of TURN LEFT to make the arrow compulsory.
http://www.ukmotorists.com/marking_signs.asp

It's a th manoeuvre though, as it would require an unnecessary merge once past the junction.
Do it to an unmarked car and you might very well get a tug followed by pointed 'words of advice'.