Suzuki Vitara won't start....
Discussion
A friend (yes really) has a 5 year old Vitara petrol that refuses to start after a run, it starts fine if left overnight but after a short trip to lets say the shops, it just refuses to start if left for an hour or so. It's now on it's second battery in 3 months as she keeps flattening them trying to start the thing. Just posting here to ask if there's anything obvious to look at or get checked out as the local garage is stumped as to what the problem might be. To add to the problem we are in deepest rural France and a very long way from any Suzuki dealers so have to rely on local mechanics.
How short is the trip?
If it’s not long enough to get off the rich cold start cycle it could be confusing the O2 sensor resulting in not enough fuel being supplied for the semi cold start.
How is the starting after a long run?
Probably worth reading the codes, google may help if it has any self diagnostics on board or suggest a cheap reader you can get.
Failing that you could try a new O2 sensor.
If it’s not long enough to get off the rich cold start cycle it could be confusing the O2 sensor resulting in not enough fuel being supplied for the semi cold start.
How is the starting after a long run?
Probably worth reading the codes, google may help if it has any self diagnostics on board or suggest a cheap reader you can get.
Failing that you could try a new O2 sensor.
stevieturbo said:
Start with the basics.
Fuel...air...spark.
Find out which it isnt getting and then investigate why.
Assuming it is turning over fast enough that it would be capable of starting etc.
Normally sound advice but the OP specifically says fine if left overnight and doesn't highlight any issues once running so unlikely to be as simple as fuel / air / spark IMO. Fuel...air...spark.
Find out which it isnt getting and then investigate why.
Assuming it is turning over fast enough that it would be capable of starting etc.
I used to have a car with a fussy O2 sensor and a nearby petrol station I used to like to fill up at near the start of a journey and had similar starting issues which is why I suggested it.
trickywoo said:
Normally sound advice but the OP specifically says fine if left overnight and doesn't highlight any issues once running so unlikely to be as simple as fuel / air / spark IMO.
I used to have a car with a fussy O2 sensor and a nearby petrol station I used to like to fill up at near the start of a journey and had similar starting issues which is why I suggested it.
Of course it is as simple as that. Those are the basics any engine require to run ! and his is refusing to start. So quite clearly one or more of those items is not present, or present in too large quantities.I used to have a car with a fussy O2 sensor and a nearby petrol station I used to like to fill up at near the start of a journey and had similar starting issues which is why I suggested it.
And as the O2 sensor plays no role whatsoever in starting, nope it will not be the problem here.
stevieturbo said:
And as the O2 sensor plays no role whatsoever in starting, nope it will not be the problem here.
My understanding is that the O2 sensor plays a very large part in how lean or rich the fuel mixture is. Not sure how you plan to ascertain that by simply checking air / fuel / spark as they will all be present.Sounds like the rough equivalent of trying to start a warm engine with choke / too much choke. A failed O2 sensor will result in too rich a mixture, no?
stevieturbo said:
And as the O2 sensor plays no role whatsoever in starting, nope it will not be the problem here.
That's my view, too. The cold start system giving too much or too little cold start enrichment would be my first suspicion. If it's too much then continuing to crank it is unlikely to do any good, so if it does eventually start that would suggest it is not overfuelling.eybic said:
Crank sensor is something brought up by a quick google, another option could be coils.
Starting with the basics as stevieturbo suggests is the best way to diagnose problems like these. It might well be caused by one of the parts you mention in which case a methodical diagnosis starting with the basics will soon tell you that.Leaky injectors?
Cold start would be fine, warm start would be on a flooded engine with no enrichment required hence the no start. If it fails to start after stopping try starting it with foot to the floor on the accelerator.
Bit odd on a five year old car but worth a shot next time it won't start.
Cold start would be fine, warm start would be on a flooded engine with no enrichment required hence the no start. If it fails to start after stopping try starting it with foot to the floor on the accelerator.
Bit odd on a five year old car but worth a shot next time it won't start.
trickywoo said:
stevieturbo said:
And as the O2 sensor plays no role whatsoever in starting, nope it will not be the problem here.
My understanding is that the O2 sensor plays a very large part in how lean or rich the fuel mixture is. trickywoo said:
My understanding is that the O2 sensor plays a very large part in how lean or rich the fuel mixture is. Not sure how you plan to ascertain that by simply checking air / fuel / spark as they will all be present.
Sounds like the rough equivalent of trying to start a warm engine with choke / too much choke. A failed O2 sensor will result in too rich a mixture, no?
Your understanding is wrong.Sounds like the rough equivalent of trying to start a warm engine with choke / too much choke. A failed O2 sensor will result in too rich a mixture, no?
o2 sensor plays no role whatsoever in starting, or indeed cold running, or even initial running after starting.
The sensor takes time to warm up to be considered usable for any feedback controls.
And of course if fuel/air/spark was all present correctly the engine would be starting.
stevieturbo said:
trickywoo said:
My understanding is that the O2 sensor plays a very large part in how lean or rich the fuel mixture is. Not sure how you plan to ascertain that by simply checking air / fuel / spark as they will all be present.
Sounds like the rough equivalent of trying to start a warm engine with choke / too much choke. A failed O2 sensor will result in too rich a mixture, no?
Your understanding is wrong.Sounds like the rough equivalent of trying to start a warm engine with choke / too much choke. A failed O2 sensor will result in too rich a mixture, no?
o2 sensor plays no role whatsoever in starting, or indeed cold running, or even initial running after starting.
The sensor takes time to warm up to be considered usable for any feedback controls.
And of course if fuel/air/spark was all present correctly the engine would be starting.
^^^^Wot 'e said.
trickywoo said:
Presumably you've never tried to start a cold engine with no choke or a hot engine with choke?
Stevieturbo has already addressed that. Having a spark is not sufficient - it has to be strong enough and at the appropriate time. Having fuel is not sufficient - it needs to be the appropriate amount. Checking whether the basics are present at all is just the first step in a methodical diagnosis - but it is the first step.Mignon said:
Failed coolant temperature sensor leading to an overly rich mixture unless it's stone cold.
This is where I'd start looking, having had similar in the past. Runs fine cold, gets iffy as it warms up, and won't restart immediately if left for a bit - it's running too rich, because it doesn't know that the coolant's warming up. Changing the temp sensor will probably sort it straight off.Do they ever take it on longer runs, or is it only ever shops-and-back? I'm just wondering if it ever gets warm...
trickywoo said:
Presumably you've never tried to start a cold engine with no choke or a hot engine with choke?
And as Green said, then it might have spark...but it would not have either fuel/air in correct or sensible quantities to allow starting/running.So it's a foolish retort.
And verifying an EFI engine has both fuel and spark present, also verifies things like immobilisers, crank/cam triggers etc are working correctly.
Presumably you've never diagnosed many faults ?
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